Deang

There are two different things going on here. Tom is right in that Jesus gave Peter "The Keys" to the Kingdom of Heaven. Peter used those keys when he preached the first Gospel sermon on Penetcost. He effectively "unlocked" the door for people to gain admittance. J.D., you are right in that Jesus is certainly not building the Church on Peter. What He is actually building the Church on is the statement that Peter made. Jesus: So tell me, who do you say that I am? Peter: You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus: You are right, and I say that you are Cephas (small pebble), and upon this Rock (the statement that Peter had just made) I will build my Church. We know that Peter was married ("Peter's Mother-in-Law lay sick with a fever."), and that Peter was never in Rome. However, in spite of the problems with Catholic doctrine -- no one has yet cornered the market on biblical truth, and all Christian denominations contain some error from one degree to another. During the Reformation everyone felt the need to take an isolated concept from the Scriptures and build on it. I mean, Luther threw the book of James into the Thames river, and Calvin never seemed to catch on that the very nature of God's character put natural limits on His sovereignty (love limits sovereignty). We are imperfect creatures, and are certainly prone to error in every area of our lives because of this. A lack of perfect understanding is only natural. That is why there is grace. So, if God accepts me in my conditon, with my imperfect life and error in thought -- than He most certainly will also accept another in the same condition -- with a different position. f>s>The Kingdom of God is a kingdom of inclusivity, not exclusivity. That is another one of the 'quirky' things about Christianity. One is not good enough to gain admittance into the Kingdom -- but are instead probably bad enough. At any rate, Tom -- It would be great if you would get me the name and author of that book. I'm always looking for more reading material. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-05-2002 at 10:01 AM

Low bass has slower decay properties, so proper calibration is paramount to good performace. Also, most subs use a 6db/octave high pass filter locked in at 80 or 90 Hz because of the THX standard. This high pass setting is usually used in conjuntion with a 24db/octave low pass. This necessitates using a higher setting on the low pass to get optimum results. My opinion is that this is the least desirable combination. Having owned several different types of sub utilizing this configuration, I always found that no matter what I did, the bass always seem somewhat disconnected from the rest of the spectrum. I have found that a 24db/octave crossover for both the high pass and the low pass, allow the use of the lowest available setting on the low pass (usually 40 - 50 Hz). This configuration, properly calibrated, gives one the ability to create seemless integration between the sub and mains. I don't understand what it is about a sealed design that is 'fast'. The linear excursion of the driver on a sealed design for any given low frequency is two to four times of that in a reflex design, depending on the size of the driver. I also don't see how a frequency being reproduced by a moving driver can be 'faster' than a frequency being reproduced by the air moving out of a port. This aside, I know the REL subs offer a very high degree of flexibility, but I can't help but think it would take more than one of these to keep up with a set of LaScalas. At least, as far as realistic sound levels go. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s>

How do you know most Jews in Palestine accepted Jesus? Says who?f>s> I accept the Biblical record. The division was between Christ and the religious authorities, not the people. Also, the first Gospel sermon preached by Peter saw the conversion of 3000 Jews (Acts 2). Shortly thereafter it was 5000.f>s> Christianity didn't change The Empire near as much as a bunch of Steppe nomads on shaggy horses did.f>s> LOL. Well, I guess everyone gets a little credit. Still, after Constantine, things kind of took off. Sure, much of it was pagan in nature since most people weren't willing to give up their polytheistic believes, but the genuine article was there too -- along side the madness.f>s> Modern archeology is exposing most of the so-called "history" of the Old Testament as inventions to prop the legitamacy of the kingdom of Judah circa 700 bce.f>s> Who believes that? Finklestein and a handful of apostates?f>s> http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html How does prophesy fit in with free will? Did God act to cause the Jews to rebel against Rome so that Titus would then level Jeruselem? Then where is their free will? Was God a closet Flavian, favoring Vespasian and his son over the Julio-Claudians?f>s> To foresee something is not the same as ordaining it. The actions of people are part of God's permissive will. He sits on the outside of time seeing from beginning to end. This does not mean he orchastrates every event and action. However, He certainly uses them as part of His divine plan. God did not cause the Jews to rebel against Rome, but God in Christ certainly foresaw it. The Jews did not just rebel against Rome, they rebelled against God. Throughout their history God has used other nations and peoples to chastise them. More times than not, that was the very nature of prophecy -- to warn the people of approaching judgement.f>s> All this prophesy business, especially the obsession some have with The Apocalypse, reminds me of the Priestess of Apollo at Delphi or Druids reading the future in smoking entrails and confirms me in my thinking that maybe Protestantism isn't really Christianity at all but a modern version of Germanic Paganism (note that in Europe that only Germanic Peoples, with the exception of the Welsh, are Protestant) and that only the Catholics, Orthodox and perhaps The Church of England, being Apostolic churches, are truely Christian, for what that's worth. Don't take it personally buddy but that's what I'm thinking.f>s> I think your posts are a riot. What reason would I have to take it personally or be offended? You have the right to think whatever you want. At any rate, I completely agree with you here. The best Commentary on the Book of Revelation is Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. In fact, 9/10 of the book has been fulfilled. Prophecy was meant for the people to whom the prophecy was given, during the time in which they were living. There are some small exceptions to this, where there is some dichotomy, and a vision or prophecy applies to both the near future, and then also stretches to the end of time -- but not very often. Revelation was written for the 1st Century Church, and primarily deals with God's judgement of political Rome. I could go on forever here, but that is enough. The book is symbolic and allegorical. The Literalistic interpretations common today are in complete contradiction to the plain words of Jesus and the Apostles concerning The End. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-04-2002 at 10:52 PM

Max, So, we don't do anything about the things we can do, because we don't do anything anything about the things we can't do? Suffering is part of the human condition. It is a consequence of sin. Everything we see, touch, and experience has been tainted by it. Nothing is in the condition it was originally created. We know from the Bible that the entrance of sin into the created order did not just cause biological degradation -- but botanical as well. Something changed the mechanism of how things work, and come into being. Everything that springs forth is degraded from the original design. Since everything is in this 'fallen' condition when it comes forth, it is even that much more susceptible to sin's destructive power. Things run down, rust, corrode, fragment -- die. The point here is that the cards are stacked against us. The level of degradation is so high, the level of human suffering so elevated -- the scope of it so large -- that it would be impossible for us solve every problem resulting from it. Suffering and the resultent death are symptoms of this 'disease' -- that pervades everything. We should make laws, and create consequences and punishment for those violate them. Morality is the basis for every successful and stable society. A people willing to work for the good of others is what makes 'civilization' feasable to begin with. When a people no longer work for the good of others -- there is a breakdown. If you will say that you cannot legislate morality -- I will say that even a stop sign modifies behavior, and if this is not an example of 'legislating morality', then what is it? We should endeavor to treat the symptoms the best we can. We should help the poor, comfort those who suffer, and protect in the innocent. It is clear however, that we cannot 'save' everyone. We cannot make a 'law' that rids us of suffering. We can, however, make laws that that can reduce the murder of unborn children. Many states that allow abortion, will also charge one with double homicide if they murder a woman with child. We have lasted about 1/2 the time of the Old Roman Empire. With things as they are now, try to imagine what it will be like here in another 250 years. History shows us that there is a direct correlation between 'knowledge' and 'morality'. As the knowledge curve goes up, the morality curve goes down. Most civilizations actually crumble at the pinnicle of their accumulated knowledge. What is the cause of this? It is arrogance and pride. Man begins to place his reliance on his intellectual capability, apart from what the dictates of his conscience and heart tell him. He begins to rationalize all types of behavior. Greed, lust, jealousy, envy, hate, worship of self -- all go completely unchecked. You do not have to be a "Christian Nation" to experience the judgement of God. Any nation that aids in the suppression of God's truth, and throws up its hands to allow individuals to determine for themselves what is 'right' -- is simply asking for it. It is not that we have taken God out of our schools (which we haven't), or that we have taken him out of our society (which we haven't) -- it is because we have taken him out of our lives. Therein lies the problem. Our crime rates, and other problems, reflect this. We are clearly perched on a slippery slope. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-04-2002 at 02:54 PM

226 years, and she's still the best thing this planet's ever seen. Conservative, Liberal, Black, White, Yellow, Brown, Pagan, Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Catholic, Klipschead, Polkhead, Bosehead -- are all here to do their thing. Where else is a better place to do it? "The land of the free and the home of the brave" "Face piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave -- and keep on thinking free." f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s>

Up there in Cleveland Browns Country. I think it will be a very good year for us. The Defense should be tremendous. You are welcome anytime during the week. Just let me know so I can take a 1/2 day off work so you can get back home by a decent hour. It's a heck of a drive. You might want to bring your amp. It would be the only way to get an accurate picture. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s>

Geepers, I leave this thread for a couple of days and everyone goes completely ga-ga. Since my area of knowledge lays with religion I will contain my comments to that area. I certainly have political views -- but I have become more a-political over time. I will only say that Government has a responsibility to keep business honest, and do something about the poison in our food, water, and land. It should protect us from foreign invaders, level tyrants, gaurd the lives of the innocent, and provide for the saftey of the governed so we can pursue freedom. Other than that, I want it the hell out of my life. I find many of the comments in this thread related to religion odd. If I were to address every one of them I would be here until morning. The first thing I want to get out of the way is the constant confusion between Christian history, Protestant history, and Roman Catholic history. They are all completely different. Most have only a familiarity with Roman history. I will only say here that the Scriptures were on the banned book list for almost a thousand years, and if you were caught with a single sheet of it -- you were executed. The 'Dark Ages' were 'dark' for a reason. JD said it best. Religion of the 'head' is bad. Religion of the 'heart' is very good. This is something else people do not understand: The difference between 'spirituality' and 'religion'. A 'religious' person will kill you if you do not agree with them. No 'spiritual' person would ever raise a hand against another, except in the defense of self, family, or an innocent. As far as different and various religions go, and how to tell which one is right (for they ALL cannot be right), you simply look at the founder and his teachings. You DO NOT use the inconsistancies and imperfections of imperfect followers to damn the religion. Anyone undertaking a serious study of religion will find the Judeo-Christian principles to be the ones that are most consistant with real life. This is so depressing, because I have so much to say -- C.S. Lewis said that if I explain the Christian religion to someone in a way so a three year old can understand it -- it is said that God would never make something so simple. If I explain it in the way a scholar understands it -- then it is said that God would never make something so complicated. Buddha said, "Make of yourself a light. Rely upon yourself: do not depend upon anyone else. Make my teachings your light." Muhammad said, "I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my examples, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray." Yeshua said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life...I am the light of the world...He who has seen me has seen the Father...I AM." I won't even bother with Hinduism, which doesn't even know it's founder, and is based on an "impersonal" God. A God clearly inferior to me since I have something it doesn't -- a personality. Atheism is intersting if your a gambling man. Great stuff there. The way I figure it, everything coming around by random chance is about the same as a print shop exploding and making a book. The problem with Jesus is that He was executed because of who he claimed he was. All he had to say was, "Psyche! just kidding folks!" So, he was either a liar, a fool, or a complete nutcase. Yet, how do we reconcile those possible conclusions with his life and teachings? The other problem we have is even with the most conservative dating methods, the recorded history of his life were penned within the life times of those who either witnessed the events, or knew of the events. Try to imagine writing a wacked out, goofy history about FDR or Harry Truman. Think it would pass? Yet, this Gospel 'farce' changed the face of the Roman Empire within 300 years. Not bad for 'fiction'. Forget about the discrepancies in the Bible. Any one who really studies the Bible understands them and has very little problem explaining them. Yet people make it out like it's just filled with one contradiction after another. The problem with most Christians, and I hate to say this, are just really not good students. They like to be spoon-fed. They like to drink the milk, but never move to the meat and potatoes. The real deal will bring a grown man to his knees, and when he wakes up the next morning, and sees everything through God's eyes, his heart just breaks. The Gospel record is filled full of quirky things. Things you miss if you're not paying attention. The kind of things that are quirky in that real life kind of way. Let's start with end of the Gospel records. A bunch of scared men running in different directions, and hiding from the authorities. The Bible is strange that way. Anyone who has actually read it is struck by the way it never glorifies it's 'heros'. All their faults are laid bare. Compare that fact with other faiths. At any rate -- these same 'cowards' are found 40 days later (beginning of book of Acts) out in the streets preaching a message that they KNOW just got their fearless leader nailed to a tree. What happened in that forty day period to turn these men from chickens into lions? Could it have been something they saw? Jesus is dragging his 'cross' to the hill through the streets of Jerusalem. The women are crying. Jesus turns and says to them, "Weep not for me, but weep for yourselves and your children." What the hell did He mean by that? The Bible never once tells us. However, we know from Josephus, a Jew who recorded Roman history in Palestine, that when Titus laid siege to the city, the conditions were so bad inside the old city that the people resorted to eating their infants. Was Jesus a prophet? You tell me. Jesus and Barabbas are standing before the people. Pilate gives them a choice. It is a 'special' occasion you see. "Which one do you want?" Pilate asks. The people cry out, "Barabbas! Give us Barabbas!" That's nice. Not much discussed is that most Jews in Palestine actually accepted Jesus. In fact, they had just one week earlier accepted him as their King when he rode into the city with a great procession. The religious authorities had actually hired dissenters, who were strategically placed in the crowd. They wanted Barabbas, and so Barabbas they got. But what was Jesus hearing as they shouted? Jews took their names from their fathers. For example, Jesus would actually have been, Jesus-bar-Joseph. "Bar" meant - "son of", so -- Jesus son of Joseph. Now, look at the name "Barabbas". The first part is "son of", the second part is "abbas". "Abba" is the Aramaic word for "daddy". A better rendering is the european "Papa". So now, think. What was filling the ears of the God-man Jesus. The Bible is chock full of stuff like this. Peter said, regarding the end of the world: "The earth and everthing in it shall melt with a fervent heat...the very elements shall be dissolved." Now, Peter was a fisherman. He's never even seen a firecracker go off, yet he comes up with this. Incidently, the Greek word for "dissolved" is "disbanding", or "dispersing". So, we have an atomic physicist statement from a fisherman. I posted this so some of you might gain an understanding of why Christians believe the Bible. Roadhawk is right. Everything he said. And Max, God told Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart..." I will tell you that I know God, and that since we abort (murder) over a million kids a year -- we have probably killed 100's of Einsteins, 100's of Beethovens, and who knows what else we have lost. God knows. It makes me sick even to think about it. Some of you speak of that you know, but you also speak of that you do not know. I wish you would stop. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-04-2002 at 01:00 AM

By the way, the link for AudiogoN is simplyf>s> www.audiogon.com AudiogoN is a community of high-end users. I myself have sold and purchased equipment over the site a 1/2 dozen times. Equipment is rated according to age and condition, and low lifes are not tolerated. There is a feedback system that works very well, and everything I have purchased has shown up as advertised. You can land a mint $2500 piece for half the price. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 10:34 PM

Do not, I repeat, do not buy a BP-20 or BP-25. I ran the BP-20 with a Bryston 3B-ST for about a month and it was dry, sterile, and steely. You have KLF. You HAVE to get some tubes into your system. Buy used from AudiogoN. I have an on-going love affair with Sonic Frontiers preamps (Anthem Pre1L's and my Line 1). I think they sound great with solid state amps. You get tube richness and soundstage, without over the top warmth. Many think they have a 'solid state' sound. Maybe they do -- but you sure don't get the grit of solid state. It sounds very good in my system, and I listen to the same stuff you do, and much harder stuff as well. If you want more warmth, then definitely go with Conrad Johnson or Cary. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s>

That would be a timely post Kelly. I've been thinking about that very thing quite a bit this week. Did you see my post on bi-amplifying my RF7's with the two Super Amps? I wish you could hear it -- you'd need more than a sedative f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 09:41 PM

Sounds like you need another Belle for your center channel Ray. Think you can get a Belle on top of your T.V. Might be easier to set your T.V. on top of your Belle, ya think? If you are into multi-channel, you might want to check out the new Denon machines. They do CD/DVD/DVD-A. They appear to very well built for the money. You can see them at f>s> www.crutchfield.com ------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 09:33 PM

I was kind of hoping this thread would die. I mean, sometimes it's just plain better to agree to disagree and let it go at that. But I can't! f>s>I don't put much faith in what "electrical engineers" have to say when it comes to audio. Their thinking seems to be limited to what the current technology allows them to "measure", ie, if it can't be measured, it doesn't exist.f>s> I really think your statement is somewhat unfair and prejudiced. The truth is, the nature of electricity, and the transfer of power is so well understood, that it doesn't even come down to "measurements" -- it comes down to what is possible and what is not, based upon the nature of it. "Sound" does not flow down our cables. "Sound" is merely the result of electrical impulses being translated into mechanical motion by the advancement of an electrical field. The "field" is advanced by electrons as they are "excited" and bump into each other. The field is either there or it is not. The resulting "impulses" are there, or they are not. There is nothing in the nature of a conductor itself to "create" or "shape" sound -- because "sound" does not exist until the electrical impulses create the mechanical motion. All cable and wire from the receptacle to the drivers, is simply different intensities of an electrical field. I work in the networking field. There is a company named "Pairgain" that makes some nifty T1 modems. You can change interface cards in them so you can use them in various applications. They can facilitate T1 and DSL over copper, and can be used to create an Ethernet bridge over 2 miles. When they came in to demonstrate the device, they used a long piece of old, completely rusted barbed wire. We use these devices exclusively as T1 modems and DSU/CSUs for clocking on Cisco routers. They are used on pre-World War II paper wrapped lead circuits. The condition of this wire is simply horrid -- yet we have no trouble pushing data across most it. Some of it is, however, so bad that we can't use it. So, I maintain that it doesn't matter if your copper is from Home Depot or Cardis. If the conductor is in good shape -- it will simply do it's thing. f>s>...an "electical engineer" came in and told me the best way to demonstrate the speakers was to have them pointing dead-on axis at the listener. He went on to blather about anaechoic testing, blah, blah, but he was full of crap! My ears, and the designers ears told us otherwise.f>s> Well, he was an Electrical Engineer, not a Sound or Acoustics Engineer. Setting up speakers properly for a given room situation has nothing to do with "electricity" -- so I don't understand your point here. At any rate, what he told you was not "incorrect", as positioning speakers on-axis limits side wall reflections.f>s>. Unfortunately, psychoacoustics is a newer field and the "electrical engineers" sure as **** don't have the technology to measure psychoacoustic phenomena.f>s> Actually, "psychoacoutics" was a much discussed topic back in the 70's. It's just a big word that has more to with what is in your head, affecting how, and what you hear. I should add here that my comments are in the context of "wire". "Wires" are not "circuits", and I certainly do not believe all CD players, amp, preamps, etc., sound the same. BTW, did you know some manufactures of high-end electronics recommend the elimination of extraneous power condioning? This is because good equipment already has "power conditioning" built into it. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 09:21 PM

Well no wonder they work so goodf>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 07:47 PM

Josh, please don't forget about diminshing returns. I'm sure everybody here is sick of me saying this, but since you haven't been here in a while... In 1996 I bought an Anthem CD-1 player with a tubed output. I paid $1700 for that thing. It used some of the best parts throughout. I bought a Sony DVP-S9000ES recently to try out SACD, and as is usually the situation I find myself in -- the Anthem had not sold yet when the Sony arrived. I had almost a week to compare them head on. I wrote a review that details the comparisons at the Asylum. In short, the Sony stomped the Anthem. Since the Cary and other high end offerings are newer, you may get an increase in performance -- but I believe you will find it miniscule. Sink your money into a tube amp instead! f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 12:16 PM

A pair of 20's for less than $400? That's a pretty outrageous deal. I wouldn't think the 30's are more than twice as good. More bass, more slam for sure. But for less than $400 I would be doing the 20's. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

How the heck did I miss this thread? Great post, and really quite funny.f>s> Your basic sixteen-year-old butt-wiggling spandex-encased virgin diva, your basic four- or five-guy calisthenic boy-band, your basic pierced, tattoo-encrusted, goateed garage band, your basic pierced, tattoo-encrusted, goateed, leather-sheathed bad-boy metal munchers, your basic sexy-to-the-max, shrink-wrapped slinky girl trio, your basic good-'ol-boy/girl in a big Stetson.f>s> rotflolf>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-02-2002 at 11:34 PM

Ken, sounds like you need to take your meds too.f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Now Mallet, cut the kid a break. I'm disappointed in you. You are probably one of the best people on this forum to help him out -- and you decide to do the pile driver on him Now, take those meds and come back and help this kid out. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Your choices are almost endless. It would help if we knew how much you were willing to spend and what your musical tastes are. I say go with a tubed preamp with the Bryston and KLF's. IMHO. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Craig, The KLF series are considered by many to be the best 'rock' speakers ever made. Did you know KLF-30's having been popping up on uBid? You can probably get them to your front door for less than a $1000. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Well, my DJH version of the Super Amp showed up on my doorstep today. Since I still had my other Super Amp (because it had not sold yet), I decided to horizontal biamp just to see what the outcome would be. I couldn't vertical biamp because the amps are in fact quite different. One is Class A with 15 watts, the other is Class A/AB with 35 watts. Besides the power difference, there are some other differences as well, including the substitution for EL84's in the DJH version for the 6GC7's used in the base version. Since I had to horizontal biamp for the experiment, I e-mailed Bob Gassel earlier in the week asking if he could find out what the impedance of the individual driver sections are for the RF7's. The response came back that the top is 6 ohms and the bottom is 3.1 ohms. I was a little concerned with the latter number until I remembered the SVS does everything 51Hz and below, and so I figure the impedance doesn't drop that low. What seemed like destiny in the making, was finding out last night from the seller that Dennis Hadd had actually used this amp with his Magnepans -- and had therefore soldered it up to the 4 ohm taps. Kewl. So, I took that extended lunch break today just to tear everything down and build it back it up. Kind of had to rearrange that rack you see. I powered everything up and went outside to enjoy an indonesian clove cigarette while things warmed up. As usual, I started with something a little laid back and familiar. I would save Godsmack for later. I put on Rush Moving Pictures and forwarded to one of my old favorites, 'Witchhunt'. If you are familiar with the song then you know why I picked it. Intense transients on the drums, slamming bass, and Geddy Lee doing 'his thing'. Kelly likes to talk about 'bloom', and I'm sure what he means by this is the opening up of the soundstage, the instruments separating out some, and the whole thing being pushed out towards the listening postion. What I experienced in the first 30 seconds of this cut was more like a mushroom cloud. I pick up the remote, turn it down a little, and try to go with it. There is certainly more HF energy than before, and the bass is all enveloping. The bass catches me completely by surprise. It was really 'all enveloping' before, or, at least -- I thought it was. The only way I can describe it is to say it now has 'grip'. The SVS certainly isn't doing anything differently than it usually is, the settings are the same as always. This bass is coming from the RF7's, and is nothing short of unbelievable. The midrange is more forward, way forward. It's not out of balance with the rest of the sound -- just more forward -- and clean. Very, very clean. I look at my horns trying to figure out where all this is coming from. It's almost 'Heritage' in nature, and I try to decide what I think about it. I end up moving my chair back another 2 feet, not because I'm trying to hide from it, but more like the RF7's are telling me to back off so they can breathe a little. I turn the system down and walk out of the room. Silence as a reference point. Cup of Coffee. Cigarette. Back upstairs. Alice Cooper. Now at a more reasonable volume level. It's very wide open, and clean, with dynamics out the wazoo. The RF7's are just cruising along, and it sounds really, really good. The thing that strikes me however, is that it is also sound VERY different, much like if I had just moved a different set of speakers into the room. The sonic signature has actually changed. The balance it seems, has shifted to the midrange. I know some of you will simply not believe this, but it sounds less like cones and more like horns. At the same time however, it also seems as if the cones are now free to roam and do their thing. The bass coming from the RF7's now seems to be 'hinged' to the SVS. What I find odd about the experience is that I know much of that midrange output is emanating from the cones, and not the horns -- yet it sounds more horn-like in it's signature. My ears begin to adjust to the change, and so I begin to ease up the volume. It's tremendous sounding, and I am trying very hard to find fault. With the increase in midrange output, I'm paying very close attention to the midbass -- to make sure it's still there. It is. It's layered perfectly beneath the intensity of the midrange. Previously, the midrange was back a little more, and the midbass was more forward in comparison. The roles have now been reversed, and I decide this is what is accounting for the dramatic change. By the end of the CD, I decide that the upper bass and lower midrange are separated by a hairs width, and I can't really tell anymore where one leaves off and the other begins. I finish my long lunch with the last 20 minutes of 'Matrix'. At the conclusion of this assault, I decide that this configuration will be very hard to part with. If I had to characterize the sound overall, I would say it sounds like solid state without the 'film', or 'grain'. The clarity is crystalline, and the soundstage sits in your lap. It's glorious and bombastic, and I love it. I would say it only sounds like tubes in the area of projection and soundstage. This setup appears to be perfectly suited to the type of music I listen too, and it's absolutely killer with movies. I think I might go on a search for another DJH version of the AE-25 and give vertical biamping a whirl -- mostly because of impedance issues. It would also be nice to get some of what the DJH version does, and put it to the tweeter. I may do something transitional in the meantime however. I may buy either Ed's DJH AE-3 or a Cary SLP-94L I'm looking at right now, change the leads on the DJH Super Amp from the 4 ohm taps to the 8 ohm, and go back to one amp until I find another DJH Super Amp so I can vertical biamp. I could buy the amp once I unload the SF Line 1, and the base Super Amp. My only fear here is that I would lose the sharpness of the transients -- which I really like. At any rate, it sounds darn good right now, though probably not a sound that Kelly, or any other die hard tubie would go ape over -- but a sound that would definitely rock Ears back on his heels, and I'm thinking the likes of Tom Brennan might tip his hat as well. So, in conclusion -- I would say horizontal biamping with push-pull amps works very well with the RF7's.

Nice to see you back on the Klipsch Forum Josh. It's been a while! Now Josh, I suggested you go with a tube preamp almost two years ago. See all the misery you could have saved yourself if you would have listened to me I've been busy too. I just biamplified my RF7's with two triode amps. Seems there is no end to this madness. Ain't it fun! Your CD question. So how long have you had the Sony? I'm not familiar with that model number. The reason I ask is because the new Sony's using the latest DACs are really good. Have you been spending any time at the Hi-Rez Forum at The Asylum? The Cary is a great machine. Hard to go wrong there, and it would be a good match with your KLFs. However, I think I have pretty much decided most of the 'high-end' machines emasculate the highs in their attempts to emulate analog. OTOH -- this might be a good thing with the KLF's since they are a little more forward in nature than my RF7's. f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-02-2002 at 10:46 PM

Ed, interesting. I did get a nice Kimber power cord with my Superamp when I bought it. It came along with the ride. I went back and forth between it and a ridiculously thick power cable I got out of a 'garbage' box at work that had been used to power a huge Compaq server. I couldn't tell a bit of difference. Why not just set your player on some nice thick bubble wrap or acoustic foam --or maybe put some dimes under the feet? It would at least be interesting to try to see if the net effect is the same. Seems to me there are other effective ways of isolation and damping. f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

I could live with these. Suprisingly low sensitivity however (92db/w). Still, very nice.f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

Rollerballs aside, I thought maybe it was a good time share my dirty secret with you all. About 6 months ago I was getting ready to drop some big dollars on Cardis interconnects. My eyes then fell on Audioquest, and some of the things they were saying at there website prompted me to give myself a crash course on how electricity works. I work two 12 hour shifts on the weekends, and ended up giving myself 48 hours of online instruction on electricity and how it works. I also spoke with several electrical engineers at work about some of the things I was learning. I am by no means an expert, but even a rudimentary understanding of how electricity works should lead one to see how ridiculously impossible it is for a power cord, speaker cable, or interconnect, to make any difference as far as any component is concerned. If one is convinced that the reasoning behind the benefits of high-end cables sounds feasable, then I would respond by saying that any benefit supposedly gained, is lost at the binding posts, clip wire, tin soldered connections at the drivers, crossover(s), and the internal wiring at the RCA or balanced inputs/outputs of any component. However, there can be no benefit. It's complete nonsense. Personally, I don't care how long this guy has been working in a studio making recordings. A recording engineer is NOT an electrical engineer. Of course, it all comes down to what we hear, and I certainly believe that people hear differences. I will say that the differences are real, however, they are not related to anything that has to do with electricity. Like I say in the referenced thread -- belief is a powerful mechanism. However, I no longer believe that a person hears a difference merely because they convinced themselves there is a difference -- because they dropped big money on a cable(s). Rather, I believe most audiophiles are conditioned to believe that if they make ANY change to their system -- there will be a difference -- and so there is! However, I also know from experience that a cable tweak can seem dramatic -- but when I remove the said cable, the degradation is nonexistent. Doesn't this beg the question? Ed, I would just ask you: Did your wife just sit down in front of your system and exlaim -- "Oh my gosh Ed, what did you do! The bass is so much better, the treble goes on forever, and the soudstage is so much more expansive!" "Check it out honey, it's these little balls! No, not those! These!!" I think voltage changes in the AC line, and barometric pressure, are greater factors in day to day changes in the sound of our systems than anything else. As far as doppler effect goes -- all speakers do this, but horns certainly to a greater degree. The effect is caused by the listener's head rotating 360 degrees while seated at the listening position. It's also caused by having a listening chair which rests on casters -- being blown across the room by any amp playing in excess of 5 watts. The wavering tones you hear while your head is rotating is "doppler effect". f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-02-2002 at 09:27 AM