D-MAN

Gil, of course I didn't mean you... TBRENNAN: Here's some PHYSICS 101: Wires of any length introduce RESISTANCE in the signal path and also produce magnetic fields (at a loss of current); they are also susceptable to other magnetic fields (INDUCTANCE) which can only serve to alter the original signal further. Let's not leave out CAPACITANCE from having 2 conductive surfaces with differing charges separated by a dielectric along the length of the run. Granted, there is plenty of sales hype concerning speaker and interconnect cabling that has to be BS, but there is a factual basis in the performance of certain products due to the above considerations. Pooh-pooing the idea that wires of various types have different electrical performances is indicative of a uneducated mind. Perhaps the beginning of the word you wanted in your previous flame was "del" rather than "dil". I assume you meant "delusional" or "deluded".

I have tried bi-wiring and I liked the difference, but I cannot explain it in a sensible manner, but here's what I think (just an opinion)... the effect is more noticable when the woofer(s) are "taken out of the crossover signal path", so that the woofer load is "seen" by the amp, but not by the high frequency portion of the crossover, and therefore less insertion loss is seen by the high-freq portion of the xover. There is a considerable amount of disagreement in the audio community about the effectiveness of bi-wiring. Also the simple fact of 4 wires vs. 2 increases the cross-section and surface area of the wires, which increases electrical conductivity by reducing the resistance of the respective cabling. However, a double run of the same wire may give exactly the same result for that reason alone... Try it for yourself and let us know what you think... DM

Hey, lighten up, dude.

I am 100% for serious tweaking. That's how PWK came up with these things in the first place. It's like building a hot-rod. Some people think that you should restore it to its original condition and some want to modify it to go fast. It's the American Way. DM

Room reflections are probably playing havoc with the imaging, I assume from such a small space. More than likely the imaging is being smothered by reflections and room modes. I would recommend investing in some room treatments, such as sound-absorbing panels, etc. It helped my situation alot. Try hanging a couple of bankets on the two side walls and then reposition the speakers and see the difference before investing in some panels. You may also find that the "forward" presentation will probably go away. Good luck - it has taken me literally years to get a handle on this problem. DM

I have friends that used to say the same thing- until I proved it to them by A-B'ing different interconnects. Anyone whose tried different inteconnects can EASILY tell the difference between copper and silver. It is a simple fact of science that silver transfers electricity more efficiently. Why do you think that RADAR waveguides are coated inside with silver? Simply LESS LOSS to the signal for given length of run. I rest my case. Also ANY wire will alter the signal passing through it. The point is to choose the one that does the least damage. If one has a good enough quality of source electronics, then the cabling quality will be audibly discernable. Each cable type and length will have a "flavor" all of its own, so I agree that the choice of cabling can be used to advantage in any listening environment. DM

Living in Seattle, I have a buddy that worked at SpeakerLab in the early 80's. I used to get driver stuff from them, and I wish that they still sold the horns, etc. The model 5, 6, and 7's all used EV tweeters. The midrange horns were aluminum castings with "SpeakerLab" cast on the sides, but I believe that the midrange drivers were also EV, but I could be wrong. I know that the tweeters were because I bought 4 of them years ago. Also the SL "K"'S had the EV drivers, except the woofer, which SL made inhouse. I'd like to get a couple of those new now... DM

Hang on to those pups, even when short on space... They still spank most other speakers even when strangled. At relatively low volumes I wouldn't think that your setup presents any drastic acoustic problems and at really loud volumes, who cares? Thanks for the peek. DM

Like Gil said... he's right. I have one more thing to add: technically wattage is a rating for heat dissipation arising from electrical current encountering resistance. DM

There is quite a difference in coupling a very small diaphram with a very small excursion through a very small distance (the ear canal) and the propagation of the same low frequency wave at a hearable volume from a distance of several feet through the atmosphere in a larger enclosed space, which is therefore subject to diffractions and reflections and subsequent modal cancelations due to room boundaries. That is why the room needs to be at least a certain size to reproduce usable low frequencies.

I have run both tubes and solid state gear for years. Back in the late seventies, my Khorns used to hiss; seems to be a natural condition of the EV tweeter. All of the amps I've ever used hissed to the same degree. I am now using a Mac solid state setup and no longer use the EV tweeter; I have not noticed the hissing at all even with my ear up to it. I do get thumps at turn-on, just like the "old" days. Some things just don't change...

For wiring my enclosures I used some 12 gauge copper from Home Depot, too, for lack of anything more handy. There is something to be said for pure silver stuff, but it is probably better used on the upstream components rather than the back end, although if I were extremely rich and anal about it, I would go with silver all the way. Also the larger the bore the better... I've tried fancy high-end interconnects and REALLY - silver is better than copper hands down at any length and then the shorter the run of silver, the better (i.e., 1/2 m. is better than 1 m., etc.). Now, how much better than copper, I will leave to you. The performance-to-price ratio is certainly not balanced. They are not "twice as good" but they are definately better performing than copper, in my opinion. I am using Alpha-core silver interconnects. Tried both RCA and XLR (stayed with XLR). However, due to costs involved, I am using copper speaker wire, and because of that, assume that there is no reason to go any better on the speaker end of things as very short lengths are involved in the xover and speaker cabinet.

I have tried 4 different sets of drivers in my corner horns so far. Here's my opinion of them, for what its worth. I tried both versions of the Eminence Kappa-C's. Stay away from the 4 ohm Kappa C, you won't like it... deep bass but very soft, almost no mid or upper bass at all. However the 8 Ohm KAPPA C-LF is promising. It will require the 6x13" throat opening and a change to the xover low-pass coil to about a 3.2 mH or so (although it is listenable without changing it- the upper cutoff won't be quite correct, though. It is quite punchy (great mid-bass) and is a little more efficient than the K33E but doesn't go quite as low (its Fc is 39 Hz. and its rated at 98 db, if I remember correctly). They are well built and are cheaper than the K33. In a corner horn, they will change your heartbeat at 30 watts per channel and a Tower of Power cd in even the most questionable of listening spaces (which is what I've got). But bear in mind that they will not blend in seemlessly with the midrange unless you change the low pass coil to match the 8 Ohms. If you don't the midrange will definately become harsher. I have also tried a set of Seleniums now out of production(I forget the model#, but WPU202 seems close- the ones with the user-replaceable cones) that were rated at 99 db at 1 meter. These kicked major butt, but then soon went out of alignment and scraped the voice coils off. Now we all know why they went out of production... That's what I get for believing what I read on the internet! I then bought a pair of K33E's from Klipsch and like them alot. I knew I liked them best from the first note. They don't have the punch of the LF but they are a better match to the midrange/tweeter/xover setup that I currently have. I have been eye-balling the new Selenium (non-replacable)WPU?? (I want to say 505 but I could be wrong) with the published sensitivity of 96 db and an xmax of 9mm and an Fc of 36 Hz. These may be worth a try; the specs look good. Has anyone tried the Dayton 500w 15" driver? They look reasonable for a horn application...

Howdy, Your post started me thinking... Where exactly is the throat of a Klipschorn? PWK refers to the "throat opening" and the "throat" interchangably in his 1941 paper "A Low Frequency Horn of Small Dimensions" or so I take it. So for clarity, let me rephrase it as "I changed the size of the THROAT OPENING"; of course, I was not referring to changing the dimensions of the exponential horn itself. The slot-shaped opening at the throat can also be referred to as an "acoustic low-pass filter" which is much harder to type and contains the spelling hazards of big words so I want to avoid it. I would disagree with you that the throat is 6 x 13 sq in. in that the volume displaced at the throat by the splitting wedge must be taken into account as it further restricts the available area of the horn throat in particular with the 3" slot in place. It appears that Klipsch reduced the size of the low-pass slot without changing the horn which retains the dimensions suitable for the wider (original) 6 in. wide throat opening. Clearly, the intent was to restrict the broadcast of higher frequencies available with the K33E.

Hi, I also am suspicious of the wiring. I would check that first for secure electrical contact, i.e., reseating all of the contact screws, etc. Then I would check out the drivers for correct operation. After that I would swap the speaker cables on the speakers themselves. If the problem moves with the speaker cables then the problem is upstream in the component chain (or the speaker cables themselves). After all that it can be assumed that the xover is the problem. Generally the drivers fail from exceeding excursion limits (time will also be a factor). Crossovers usually fail due to solder-joint oxidation (again time and humidity). Capacitors are also subject to environmental fluctuations and can oxidize or chemically break down over time. Check out Al's ALK xovers, they are expensive but excellent, I have a pair myself and highly recommend them.

Hi, Arthur. I have been having the opposite trouble, that is, not enough bass, but in exploring the problem, I have run across some useful information, because the cause is actually the same thing although the results are opposite to each other. Maybe this could help you to discover what is going on with your audio... Having windows in the room tends to bleed the bass outside (or so I was told by home theatre installers), so that probably isn't the trouble. I am suspicious that the problem may be due to frequency modes being set up due to the room dimensions, refelectivity of the floor, walls and ceiling and the room contents. Overly reflective rooms will also tend to ruin any "imaging" that the system is capable of. Frequency modes occur at various places in the listening enviroment due to reflections coming back onto the source path and the resultant phasing overlayment(at sub-multiples such as 1/4 wavelength, etc.) either adds or cancels certain frequencies. I would test this by moving around and listening where the bass is louder or softer and then consider putting some sound absorbtion panels in the appropriate places to minimize the problem. Bass absorbers in the opposite corners may also help. One more thing to try, (and this is ONLY a testing tool): reverse the polarity on ONE of the woofers. Do this at the woofer rather than the crossover. This leaves everything else in phase. I would expect that the bass will cancel itself, indicating that the problem is the environment, not the system itself. Alternately using this technique, it is easier to pinpoint the trouble spots in the room. It may not be the real reason for your dilema, but perhaps these ideas could help.

I am envious... Source signal aside, it sounds like it may be an environmental issue that I am also struggling with. In the past, I have had Khorns flap my pantlegs with the bass output - so I know that the design is capable of rattling the china out of the kitchen cabinet without it requiring a the expected amount of electical power to do it. Since the bass bins mate with the room in such a unique way, the shape and makeup of the room is extremely important. The problem is with most listening areas, there are unalterable physics involved such as how far apart the corners are, the volume and absorbent quotient of the room, etc. One area to consider is the distances between the speakers (i.e., corners) and the back walls, ceiling and side walls. etc. If you unfortunately get a mathematical ratio of the wavelength being produced reflecting back onto itself and/or bouncing around it will tend to cancel itself out or produce "hotspots" due to modal excentricities. By walking around the room I am sure that you could find a few active modes. I would first try some unobtrusive room treatments first. I know that the design is capable of producing prodigious bass. The drawbacks to all of this is that most of us cannot divorce our decor from our listening space nor alter the dimensions thereof. However, I would hesitate to consider a subwoofer as a solution until I have ascertained that the problem could be not be otherwise more elegantly resolved.

I have been experimenting with various throat widths and crossover values. I have found using the K33E that the wider the throat (up to 6x13 max), the more mid and upper bass comes out; this can be used to more accurately mate with the crossover/midrange setup (bear in mind that I have a slightly larger back chamber area than the standard Khorn specifically for experimentation and am not using a standard midrange horn). The unfortunate draw back is that with the bass horn and the midrange smoothly integrated, a noticable softening of the bass frequencies occurs (it sounds rather "tube-like"). I can only surmise that this is an effect caused by what I would call "smearing" of the mid-range with the slower (due to horn length differences)arrival time from the bass bin. The resistance or reactance/capacitance in front of the driver is also changed which of course alters the crossover electrically too. The resultant LF air pressure is definately increased, so I assume that this indicates greater efficiency as the midrange required a -10.2 db setting to match the bass horn output using an ALK type A crossover. As the midrange/crossover/woofer/throat/back chamber combination is inextricably interrelated, it is a complicated mess to play with - unless you really have the need to change drivers, etc., I would say that it is best avoided and left to PWK. Also I have experimented with other drivers, and found the 6x13 in throat to be the best for other 8 ohm drivers; they tend to be far more punchy and efficient than the K33 (something that you really don't want unless you want to change the mid and tweeter to keep up with the bass output), but the K33 has a transparent quality to its bass that I really cannot describe accurately. It is more like listening to an instrument rather than a speaker, if that makes any sense... the other drivers would beat the hell out of you, but you would never forget that they were there; unlike the K33, which lets you forget where the bass is coming from; its just "there" - natural-like.