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Rudy81 last won the day on January 21 2020

Rudy81 had the most liked content!


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  1. Moog, thank you very much, but first let me say that most of what I have done didn't originate from my small brain. Rather, I learned so much about audio from the old forum members who have left this forum for various reasons. I don't post here much either. The AMT's I stumbled upon when ChrisA and I were discussing speaker measurements. He presented the measurement of an AMT and I wrongly assumed it was an example of a perfect result, not a real life measurement. There was a time long ago when this forum was full of very knowledgeable folks who loved the audio hobby, not just Klipsch, but the science behind it etc. If you search around you can find some real gems in here. I am still totally happy with my listening room setup. I do use Klipsch Pro speakers in my barn setup, but for critical listening and general movies, my OB system meets my needs. I'll PM you.
  2. @mikebse2a3, thank you very much for doing that. I did note the low contrast but did not have time to fix the old photo I had on my hard drive. Regards.
  3. In the past I have owned every Heritage model and enjoyed them all. Years ago I started a long journey learning, building and experimenting with OB speakers. I too doubt I will go back to box speakers for my main listening room. I do use box subs for the lowest end, but my 3 front speakers are a DIY project with Heil AMT's and dual 18 inch woofers housed in an H frame. Overall, very inexpensive to make and enjoy. Biggest expense for me was the active crossover and amps. If you are at all interested, I highly recommend you take the journey and learn about OB speakers and build your own. Yes, there are many manufacturers of OB speakers, but you will pay for the better options. Pure audio project has some great, high end, options for the top end. There are limits to how you can use OB speakers relative to room size since they must be away from rear walls. Picking drivers for a project is not difficult and you can spend as much as you want in that area. Have fun and enjoy the journey. If you are interested in my experience, you can search my old posts during those builds. Plenty of pictures there. I still use and enjoy my KPT-942's in my large barn. OB would not likely work well in that application. In the picture below, you can see two of the full size Marty subs in the corners. I only use the subs for movies. For my 2 channel listening evenings, only the two mains operate. Bass is not at all missing, contrary to popular belief. Of course, you need a lot of room to house dual 18 inch drivers in each main speaker.....they are rather large. If you are interested in the build of the double stacked Heil AMT's, there is a very long thread with some really good commentary from some extremely knowledgeable guys from the 'old' gang on this forum. If you have never heard a Heil AMT, you owe it to yourself to find a set and listen.... If you wish to learn about OB speakers, there are many great resources on line. I highly recommend a deep dive into the Linkwitz Lab documentation.... Enjoy!
  4. Hmmmm. Placing the back of the speaker so close to the wall is likely to cause you problems and in a sense, defeats the purpose of the dipole design. I don't have any experience with labyrinth use in such a scenario. I suspect you are likely to have to use trial and error to see if that will work for you. I suspect this concept is really adding complexity to your listening space. I would start with just placing the speakers where you want without anything modifying the rear propagation and listen to it. It may sound ok. As I'm sure you know, OB speakers are normally further from the rear wall.....but, trying it out will be the only way for your to figure out how it sounds. If not satisfied, you can the begin trying different options like absorption, diffusion or a much complex idea like the labyrinth. You actually may have good luck using some polycylindrical diffusers on the back wall.
  5. A driver with a Qts of 0.59, to the best of my knowledge, may not work very well in an OB setup. I would think a driver with a Qts above 1.0 would be better suited. Funny you mention Bert's Orelo. I built a set of DIY Orelo horns paired with some 15" Eminence drivers I had and could never get the performance I expected or needed out of them. I'm sure Bert's work well, but I won't be passing by the Netherlands anytime soon to have a listen. I have built and played with just about every type of OB setup and have settled on the very simple H frame configuration with dual 18" Goldwood drivers, it has the best performance when paired with the Heil AMT in a 2-way configuration. I have other conventional Klipsch speakers, but for my room setup, the OB sound is my favorite.
  6. Always interesting to hear 'acoustic' opinions from different ears. I will note that as a dipole driver, it is important to keep it away from the rear walls. In my case, I have mine about 6' from the rear wall and about 3' from the side walls, which have absorbers on them. I have a set of 402's in my shop right now, and the sound is very different between the two systems. IMHO, the AMT is spectacular for a stereo set up in most rooms. My room is fairly large with quite a bit of acoustic treatment.
  7. @Dave A, I guess you did not read the last sentence in the very first post.....
  8. I would seriously consider those for sure, I can't drive up to get them and shipping is not likely. I'm sure someone will jump in.
  9. I wish I was closer to you. I need something like this for my barn. GLWYS!
  10. If you are interested, you can search for opinions on the various computer algorithms like Audyssey etc. I found, once I was objective, that those pieces of software don't work as well as the manufacturers pretend they do. You are way better off without all that stuff. The La Scala is a great speaker and with modern manufacturing methods, the drivers are not the problem. The cabinet is not the problem. Our rooms are the problem. We all have to deal with the rooms we have. Once you focus on that, you will be able to spend your time improving things wisely. As I mentioned, take your speaker outside of the room confinement and run a sweep. You will be able to 'see' that most problems are caused by our rooms. True for every speaker made.
  11. I might suggest you focus on one headache at a time. Take the subs totally out of the equation until you get the LaS dialed in. Get the La Scalas placed so they give you the best possible performance within the limitations of your room and WAF. THEN, and only THEN, go to the REW room simulator and set it up to mimic your room. Then, you will be able to play with the sub locations. That software is particularly good at helping with sub placement. With your subs at the front of the room, you are causing problems in the most difficult frequency ranges. REW will likely suggest one sub up front and one near the back....no, not necessarily in the corners (WAAF again). If done properly, you should be able to place the subs to HELP with placement limitations of the La Scalas, thereby finding an optimal solution for your listening environment. Understand that this process will take quite a bit of time, but it will be worth the effort.
  12. BTW, the La Scala has plenty of bass down to 40Hz or so. Below that, I preferred the Cornwall bass. The Belle was the weakest in the bass department IMHO. Of course, the Khorn trumped them, but they too had their limitations due to placement requirements. At the outset, you just need to understand there is no PERFECT answer that will give you a perfect solution. You can get close, but have to spend horrendous amounts of money to create a proper listening environment. Room geometry and acoustics is where all the challenges and solutions lie.
  13. As you can see in your graphs, the EQ is negatively affecting your response. I suggest keeping the timing measurements for all your speakers, but do away with the EQ being applied. If you are concerned with a reversed driver, just run one speaker and see how it performs in the room. With only one speaker running, the only interaction will be at the crossover frequency. It happens, but is rare IMHO. that the drivers are wired wrong. That, is generally very obvious. If you want to prove to yourself that it is the room interaction with the frequencies, take several measurements at different room locations and focus in on the bass area below about 120Hz. You will likely see some locations with great bass and other results with terrible response at the same frequency but a different measurement location. Using the REW room simulator, you MAY be able to find better locations for your speakers and sitting position. Lot easier to move a mouse or track pad than the speaker and your couch. Be advised, you are entering a very deep and dark rabbit hole.....but rewarding once you understand the limitations and what you can do about them. WAF, however will be huge factor here.
  14. Some of what you are looking at is the effects of your room on bass. Other than doing some type of bass treatment, there is not much you can do to fix that problem. I HIGHLY encourage you to disable YPAO, although I don't have any experience with that system, after many years of working and struggling against Audyssey Pro, I got rid of it and have never looked back. If you get really motivated, and have some open space in your back yard, take one of your La Scala's outside and take a sweep outside. Not quite an anechoic chamber, but will give you an idea of just how much your room affects your performance. I live on acreage, so fairly easy for me to do without any neighbor's houses close enough to affect the results. If you want to look at the theoretical expectation, use the REW room simulation to show you how your room dimensions affect the bass of your system. This is why the listening environment is what we should all focus on to optimize performance, not speaker cables or other snake oils.
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