yromj

I'm going to try to find some time in the next few days to play w/ their free version trueRTA. It's only 1 octave resolution, but it ought to be fun nonetheless. John

I totally agree w/ the Heresie statement. If today's floorstanders were all made w/ larger drivers, this discussion would never come up. Instead, many floorstanders are made w/ the same size drivers as their bookshelf counterparts. Thus, their advantages are fewer. I do not necessarily agree w/ the powered tower recommendations. The best place for a midrange, and higher frequency, driver is in the middle of the room away from the walls. The best place for a sub is in a corner. Multiple subs in a single room can be quite difficult to tame properly because of the interaction of the two subs w/ each other and the room. John

I have a Marantz SR7400 and love it. I recommend you step up to this over the 6400. It's not very much more money at all, and is 7.1, DPLIIx, multi room/source, and has that AWESOME remote (which is worth the upgrade money alone). John

I figured some/most of the "regulars" knew that, but some readers may not. I would be curious to see an RTA of the room though. John

I use a Marantz w/ my Klipsch HT and love it. The 5400 would be great. It will probably satisfy you longer than the Quintets will. I used Quintets for a couple of years as my primary HT. They rock for movies, but aren't as good for music. I used the KSW-10 w/ mine and while it won't touch my SVS, it isn't a bad little sub. Make sure you've got it placed in a good spot and use the LFE when you get a better receiver. BTW, you're right, for $299 that's hard to beat! John

---------------- On 8/31/2004 12:08:12 PM gcoker wrote: yromj, I am all for a 7.1 system..especially if you have a long back wall to place them. While I agree in part on your 7.1 analysis, it is still up to the receiver to decide how it is matrixing the rear. I'm not totally conviced the processor pans between the two rear surrounds but I may be wrong. ---------------- Let me point out that I have a 6.1 system, so I'm not saying that 6.1 is bad at all. Yes it is COMPLETELY up to the processor to provide the information to the back speakers. I would like to confirm that the receiver does pan the two rears, also. I'm about 99% sure it does, but can't seem to locate a proof right now, and it's 5 o'clock. John

---------------- On 8/31/2004 2:28:31 PM PhilMays wrote: If you stay within the same manufacturer I feel it will be harder for a bookshelf to out perform their floorstanding economic counterpart. ---------------- This is where my opinion differs from yours. I don't feel it will be harder for the comparably priced bookshelf to outperform the floorstander. The RF-15/RB-35 post provided earlier demonstrates this somewhat. When I was auditioning speakers before I purchased mine, I had the exact same comments about the Rx-15, 25, and 35, whether they were floorstanding or bookshelves. I could easily tell the difference between the 15s and the 25s. The 25s and 35s took more careful listening, but the differences were there, especially at higher volumes. However, what wasn't nearly as obvious to me was the difference between the RBs and the RFs. I thought the 15s sounded much more "compressed" than the 25s, bookshelf or floorstanding. In other words the RB-25 sounded much better to me than the RF-15. John

How did you connect the sub to the receiver? Did you use speaker wire or an RCA cable? The RCA cable out of the receiver and into the LFE input on the sub is the generally preferred way. John

---------------- On 8/31/2004 3:11:22 PM malechi wrote: Well, the girlfriend likes the looks of the <insert object of the day here> so it seems we'll be going with that. ---------------- I've said that several times myself. John- Who's not whipped...What's that honey...oh OK, I'll be right there.

I posted that to try to point out that you can't simply drop a sub in each corner of the room and turn them on and have unbelievable bass. I always assumed that your room was not done this way. Have you ever run an RTA on your room? John

---------------- On 8/31/2004 2:17:44 PM CAS wrote: If you want to stay in the same price range then the 23-31pc+ would be more to your liking. ---------------- 25 -31PC+, just to eliminate confusion. John

---------------- On 8/30/2004 11:58:14 AM CECAA850 wrote: If SVS is recommending the PB2-ISD, then you must have a very large room. (HSU is recomending their largest box sub) Bear in mind that that particular SVS has 2 12" drivers as opposed to the HSU's 1 12" driver. Not a fair comparison in output. The PB2-ISD is said to be one of SVS's best performance/dollar sub. Carl ---------------- I agree completely w/ this. HSUs are nice, but I'd be scratching head wondering why SVS recommended the sub they did. John

---------------- On 8/31/2004 9:22:02 AM Scp53 wrote: I would think that 10 subs in a 1,100 cu/ft room would lead to some serious cancellation.(?) ------------------------------------------------------------------ I agree, I d think there would be a lot of cancelation. but if you tune each one in, one at a time, there should be no problem. ---------------- I'm curious why you say that if you tune them in one at a time there would be no problem. The subs won't start cancelling each other out until more than one is on. The only way to avoid cancellation w/ that many subs is to have several in a few select locations. Then measurements must be done while different combinations are playing to properly adjust the phase to reduce the cancellations. John

---------------- On 8/31/2004 10:12:42 AM gcoker wrote: ---------------- On 8/31/2004 4:22:44 AM white_shadow wrote: I don't ever see myself going 6.1. I'm not a fan of it and it'll be sometime before I go 7.1 if I ever do. I like 5.1 it's compact and depending on your rig can be excellent. ---------------- I don't understand your your comment about not being a fan of 6.1. 6.1 is a true formatt on DVD's. 7.1 is just two back surrounds with the same signal. Anyone can make a 6.1 to 7.1 by running a another speaker wire to another back surround. DVD's that you are missing out on is Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter to name a few. ---------------- I agree w/ you in the sense that I don't get his reluctance to utilize 6.1. However, 7.1 does not simply repeat the 6th channel twice. The processor matrixes the information for the two rear speakers. If there is a tone playing dead center behind the listener (assuming a proper setup) that would be ONLY coming from the rear center, then yes it does simply repeat the rear center tone twice. However, most tones are not coming only from one speaker at a time. Therefore, the rear surrounds get a mix of the surround on that side and the rear center, for 6.1 material. If the source material is matrixed to 7.1, then the algorithm is a little different. It's something like 60/40 ls/rs for the left rear and visa versa for the right rear. This all helps the panning effects in a 7.1 system. John

Eq_shadimir said it very well. Proper bass response in a room can be VERY tricky. Why not spend the extra money on room treatments for acoustics and such? John

---------------- On 8/30/2004 8:48:32 PM Scp53 wrote: ___________________________________________________________________ what do you mean by play lower and play deeper? whats the diff between lower and deeper? and I think they do add extension. but its the port/cab doing it, not the woofer(s). ---------------- I meant play louder and deeper, sorry about that. Note the specs given in the original post. These are straight from Klipsch's spec sheet. The RFs are 1dB more sensitive, and both have the same frequency range. John

---------------- On 8/30/2004 6:45:07 PM TheEAR wrote: And you know why? Because B0$e AcousticMe$$ bass module(read fart maker)has magnets as large as earbuds! LOL ---------------- That's what I was counting on. Thanks guys. John

What's your budget. If you're in the $400-$550 range, then check out either the Vance Dickason kit sub at www.partsexpress.com or the new PB-10ISD from www.svsubwoofers.com. If you're over that, then check w/ SVS and see what sub they recommend for you given your speakers, room size, and listening habits. Enjoy, John

---------------- On 8/30/2004 6:25:20 PM pinipig523 wrote: Yeah but what you are forgetting is that the RF-25 has TWO 6.5 inch drivers which has more total surface area than a single 8" driver of the RB-35. Also, lets not forget that the RF-25 has a much larger internal cabinet volume in comparison to the RB-35, thus, adding extension and a more full range sound. Plus, the fact that the RF-25 doesnt require stands makes it an overall better deal once you factor in ~100$ stands that do the RB-35 justice. ---------------- The two drivers will add power only, not extension. The speakers are rated as shown, according to the Klipsch website. People tend to assume two things about floorstanders over bookshelves: 1. They definitely play lower. 2. They definitely play deeper. Klipsch, and other manufacturers, own specs say differently. As for the stands, they can be had for considerably less. (I paid $40 for mine and they are very high quality stands.) John

This is NOT intended to start a flame war or any kind of attack. This is to inspire a good healthy debate. I would like to read everyone's stance on the bookshelves vs. floorstanders issue. More importantly, I would like you to back up your claims, as much as possible. We all understand that the ultimate goal is to get speakers which sound the best to each of us. It is also a given that these personal preferences can not be quantified. However, things like frequency response, sensitivity, etc. CAN be quantified. With all that said, I'll start. I had my way of thinking about speakers challenged about a year and a half ago. The result was that I started examining floorstanding speakers' charecteristics vs. their bookshelf counterparts. I was amazed at the similarities between the two types of speakers today. In the past the floorstanders had much bigger drivers and usually more of them. Today this isn't always the case. MOST (not all) floorstanders today have small drivers; many are less than 8". Bookshelves can be bought w/ these same size drivers. For example in the Paradigm Reference line the Studio 40s (BS), 60s(FS), and 100s(BS) all use 7" drivers. The B&W Nautilus 805(BS) uses a 6.5" driver while the 803(FS) uses a 7" driver. Klipsch does a similar thing w/ their Reference line. In the <$1,000 market, I believe you can get better speakers for your money by going bookshelves vs. floorstanders. In other words, I believe $800 will allow you to buy a pair of bookshelves that will sound better than an $800 pair of floorstanders. For example, Klipsch RF-25s(45Hz-20kHz, 97dB/1W/1m) have an MSRP of $800/pr whereas the RB-35s(45Hz-20kHz, 96dB/1W/1m) have an MSRP of $600/pr. The RF-25s use a 6.5" bass/midrange driver and a 6" square horn, while the RB-35s use an 8" bass/midrange driver and a 6" square horn. That's $200 saved, no performance lost (spec-wise), and the bookshelf has the larger driver. The bookshelves also give more flexible placement options, both horizontally (location w/in the room) as well as vertically. This vertical flexibility allows the speakers to be placed at the optimum listening height for a specific room. Of course, no option is perfect. Bookshelves do require stands. Some see this as the "price equalizer". However, in reality stands do NOT have to cost an arm and a leg to look nice and perform well. In fact many times, too much credit/blame is placed on the stand when it comes to speaker performance. Most bookshelf speakers, and stands, come w/ rubber feet which serve to isolate (or decouple) the speaker from the stand acoustically. Another thing to note in my discussion, is that it is based on speakers w/ similar driver sizes. This is because saying that a bookshelf can compete w/ a true full range speaker such as a Belle or Klipschorn is not wise. John

I wish I would have seen this thread earlier. My setup is an RB\C\S-25 w/ an SVS 25-31PCi tuned to 22Hz. I agree w/ your selection of the RB-25s. I was going to suggest that you get two pairs of RBs and use one for the front one for the rear center in 6.1. Later you could replace the synergies w/ another pair of RBs. John

I'm not sure this actually belongs in the "Powered Subwoofer" forums but here goes: I'm doing some work for a local doctor who has a Bose Lifestyle system (I know, I know, and I totally agree, but that's what he has). Anyway, he had a custom wall-to-wall cabinet made for his system. The layout is such that his TV, a 61" Samsung DLP, is in the top middle. Directly underneath the TV, about a foot below the shelf the TV sits on, is the "bass module". The thread about shielding made me wonder if he's going to have issues w/ this. I don't think the DLP should have a problem since it's not flinging electrons at the front of the screen. I also don't believe the magnetic field in the "bass module" would be strong enough to do affect it anyway. What do you guys think about the possible distortion problem? BTW, I had no input in the design of the cabinet, or any equipment selection. I've inherited this project as a favor to a friend, so PLEASE address the distortion problem only. John

---------------- On 8/28/2004 7:13:54 PM malechi wrote: I'm leaning towards the SVS, which model should I get? ---------------- Email SVS and ask them. They will give you a prompt reply and they WILL NOT try to oversell you. Send them your room size, speaker configuration, and listening preferences and they will recommend a sub that will take care of you. John

I have a Quintet center for sale if you're interested. You can PM me for details and pics. John

I highly recommend the SVS. HSU also makes great subs, from what I've heard. The 10" kit that was referred to previously is supposed to be awesome. The larger kits however aren't sized as well and therefore don't sound as impressive for the money as the 10". John