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Just to fuzz things up again, what about the occasions when I use the external inputs to listen to SACD or DVD-A? That signal is supposed to pass through the reciever unadulterated through the analog cables, bypassing anything in the digital domain, and go directly to the amplifier section. The D/A already occurred in the source component ... so, that's pure analog at that point, right?

Not so sure whether I'll try it or not. Probably will just to fulfill a curiosity or discredit the issue since I'm really skeptical that the separation would create any sort of benefit. Then again, I'm pretty naive about some of this stuff so I'm still wondering about my reciever. Is it an analog device or a digitial one? Feel kinda silly asking that question. Seems like I should know the answer already.

yeah, the test tones cd I bought was pretty good about explaning the compensation issues. It provided one set of test tones that were raw and required compensation, according to a chart provided with the cd. It also provided a full set of test tones that already had been compensated so you don't need to perform the math. thanks for the input guys. I know I've been more than happy with the sub's performance but I got the test cd just as a curiosity. I can't seem to pass up an opportunity to do some more tweaking or improving things. anyway, thanks again for the analysis. Oh, i forgot to ask before. can peaks be tamed by eqalization or is it just valleys that can be addressed? I can't remember but I seem to have heard that electronics only work on one of the two problems. Thanks again,

After buying a test tones disc I mapped out the frequency response of my new sub and found that my biggest dip, -2db, occurs at 40 hz. My biggest peak is at 50hz, however, and it's at +5 db. Since this is the first time I've ever done this sort of mapping I'm not so sure I'm reading this data correctly. However, from my sparse understanding I would think this is fairly good. I believe that somewhere on this forum I read a thread that indicated a frequency response that was within +/-5 db was considered good. Am I within acceptable parameters or would I benefit greatly from an electronic equalizer/room treatments? My room is about 7000 cubic feet. I haven't done any sort of special room treatments although I really don't have a ton of "hard" surfaces to deal with....carpeted floors and curtains work pretty well. Any help would be appreaciated. I could list the whole spectrum I measured if that would help some more. Thanks again for your help.

Okay, I read an article about the supposed benefits of splitting up your analog and digital equipment from the same power source. Regardless of whether this practice creates any benefits whatsover I started looking at my equipment and trying to figure out what was analog and what was digital. Most of it was easy, turntable and casette player are analog, DVD player is digital, and so on. Well, the article said a pre-amp was analog so then I started looking at my reciever and wondering. It kind of does the service of a pre-amp but really, it's got the digital converter and processing in it, so what? My guess is it's considered a digital. I know this has got to be the dumbest questions fielded in a while and I almost didn't ask but I guess my curiosity got the best of me. I guess in the end I'm still not sure how to define my equipment so any help out there? Thanks

Yup, you're right. Very friendly and helpful. I got the same response from them that you did and they were very quick at getting me an answer. Might make the plunge again, we'll see. I'm still sore about my last power conditioner purchase but it's been a while since that experience so, who knows ...

Thanks for the links. Just one more question. I've been going through some old threads about the about the UO and I realize I may be rehashing material that's way too old but I'm confused about the power capability. I've got 20 amp dedicated lines for my system but PS Audio's HC UO is rated at 15 amps and guarantees 1800 watts. Still, I've read that the same UO's balun is actually capable of allowing access to up to 40 amps. If I hook up the High Current UO to my 20 amp line will I limit the current available to my system? Will I damage the UO? I've written to PS Audio but haven't gotten a reply yet so I was hoping you might know something about this. Thanks again. If this goes on too much longer I'll really have to start a new thread.

Huu??? Now you've got me hooked. I'm all into tinkering and tweaking. I can't seem to keep my hands of stuff when it comes to modifying, improving or changing, especially when I got a toy I can play with and not worry about losing too much if I make wrong turn. Where do I go to get more info on how to do that? Thanks for the tip by the way.

That was my initial thought. A bedroom system with some bookshelves might benefit more from a sub than my current ht/stereo. It just felt kinda lonely sitting there, discarded and almost forgotten. thanks

Okay, I've had the new SVS kicking now for a few weeks and I couldn't be happier. My old KSW-12, needless to say, is retired and just kinda sitting in a closet. It served me well when I had Synergy speakers but it was doomed from the start when I upgraded to RF7s. Still, there's got to be some use for it, right? Anyone think I should hook it up as a second sub? Would it make any impact at all now that the SVS is on duty? Would it screw up my bass response - it did sound awfully boomy before but I don't think it would have to be turned up very loud with the new sub kicking. Or should I just pawn it off somewhere? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

sorry in advance for diverting the thread but i wanted to ask what PS Audio product you're using nicholtl. I've been curious about their stuff but I've been bitten before by supposed improvements of power conditioners, etc. and I'm a little gun shy. Still, I've heard good things about PS Audio and I'm a little curious about them. Are you using a power regenerator or something similar? I've seen a 300 watt generator, which seems just enough to drive a DVD player, CD player and pre/pro, maybe. It's a lot of cash for 300 watts though. Do you have any experience with the "ultimate outlet," which supposedly doesn't limit current at all but does provide surge protection and cleaning? Sorry again for hijacking the thread.

Before I bought the 2200 I purchased a used 3800 unit but I didn't have much luck with it. The particular player I had would overheat and shut down before one movie was over, and that was in an open rack. That problem was specific to the single 3800 I returned and not the line as a whole, as far as I know. Anyway, I never had both the 3800 and the 2200 in the house at the same time so I couldn't A/B them, but if I remember right some of the 3800 models have the chroma bug, which is fixed in the 2200. Also, the 2200 has more features for less money. The 3800 is much larger and, I believe, should have a much better power supply. Denon has a pretty good Web site and you can get a complete comparison chart showing what features, DACs, etc. are available with each model. It helped me make my decision when I was looking for a new model. Good luck

I've only ever had one power conditioner. It's a Monster power strip and I've always felt a little suckered by it. I bought it under pressure from a salesman about three and half years ago and never heard a difference. I still use it, hoping that it does provide surge protection. Speaking of which, I have several components hooked directly into the dedicated outlet, just like I did before I added the dedicated lines. I'm a little queazy about the lack of surge protection and am considering adding a whole-house surge protector but I may have a professional electrician do that job. I wasn't trying to advocate upgrading power systems in other people's homes. Just relaying an experience that, in my case, helped my system. I was particularly happy that, for me, it was a really simple and cheap thing to do while the improvement was noticeable and unexpected. I use standard 12-gauge cable wire for my front speakers. EDIT BTW: This project cost me approximately $50: $36 for 100 feet of 12 gauge cable, $8 for two orange isolated ground receptacles, $2 for a cable stripper (yeah, I splurged to get the right tool for the right job) and some change for a pamphlet with circuit diagrams. I already had the circuit breakers. For all that, I got visual and audible improvements that go way beyond anything my $200 power strip ever gave me.

Over the weekend, I finally broke down and installed two dedicated 20 amp lines used exclusively by my stereo/ht system. I wasn't expecting anything dramatic, just concerned about the power draw after I added a new 900 watt sub into the lineup a couple of weeks ago. The system was running on the house's regular wiring. What I got was the best upgrade I've ever done, bar none. For the price of 12 gauge wire, I improved the performace of every single component I use. I feel like I got a brand new system. At fist, I thought the improved detail in my Sony Wega was all in my head just trying to make myself feel better for all the work, you know. Then I noticed that the volume bars at the bottom of my screen were crisper. I started watching more critically and found everything was sharper. The background and difficult details were easy to see and well defined. The color seems much stronger and more natural. The difference with music was obvious at first listen. I didn't have to stop to listen critically to hear that the soundstage and imaging was much MUCH more defined. I can finally move around the listening area and still hear the center image, strongly idenfied in the center. Before, a shift in the seating position would allow the weight from either one of the speakers to send the image off balance. Music has a beautiful three dimensional quality. It's not like I've got my dream system now but I never knew that my two-year-old Denon receiver could sound as musical as it does now. I'm just so pleased with all the improvements, especially because they were such a surprise. I never expected or believed that power could make that much of a difference. Sure, I knew it would make a difference. It's just much more than I ever thought. Anyway, no real question here. I was so surprised I felt like sharing the information with you all. Thanks for reading

I'm with John here. Brick and mortar is almost always my preferred method to buy but I did make an exception with SVS. I've only had my PB2+ for a couple weeks now but I continue to be impressed by it. I was fortunate in that my sub was excellent out of the box. I was happy with its performance from the start. In the days since - I've had a hard time pulling myself away from it - it does seem like the sub has gotten stronger. I guess that's the break-in. Also, I recently got a CD to check on the sub's frequency response and determine if I need some different room treatment or electronic equlization. I was fairly impressed in finding out that my deepest valley,-2 db, occurs at 40 hz although my tallest peak is +5 db. This is my first venture in graphing my sub's frequency response and I don't know if I'm reading the data correctly but in my limited knowledge, that kind of varience seems pretty good in a 7,000+ cubic foot room. Anyway, back to the topic. Thanks SVS.

Hi everyone, This sort of fits in with architectural. I've run speaker cables through my walls for my surrounds and now I want to put the finishing touches by adding wall plates with some posts that I can access with banana plugs. That would give the walls a nice, clean look instead of having the wire come directly out the wall and to the back of the surrounds. I was wondering what folks thought about most of the stuff available and whether there were any concerns about sound degredation or wattage limitations. Are there accessories anyone would reccomend or things I should stay away from? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Hi all, Just wondering if anyone has any experience with McIntosh's MC206 amp. I don't think I'd go after this as a new item but I've seen some decent deals on the used market. It's still more expensive than many new 125W (into 8 ohms) 6 channel amps but I've eyeballed it now for a while and I keep getting more curious. How does the lack of autoformers affect this amp compared to other McIntosh products? As an aside, is anyone running a Denon 2802 as a pre-pro connected to a separate amp and if so what improvements did you notice? I'm getting some annoying harshness when I push the reciever hard and I'm wondering whether that's related to the amp's power rating or its processing capabilities. Thanks for the input

That makes a lot more sense and it seems really conveniant. I'll definitely try that out. Where do you suggest setting the crossover on the RF7s, 40 hz, 60? Seems like I've heard varying opinions on whether the crossover should be set a full octave above the speaker's lowest range. I think that would put the cross over up around 60, wouldn't it? If I understood your second point, I'm not sure the universal player issue applies to my setup. I've got a Denon 2200. When I use the digital output the player follows whatever settings are established by the reciever. When I use the analog outputs for SACD or DVD-A, which are connected to the reciever's external input, the player establishes the settings as well as a the bass management. Did I understand you correctly? thanks for the input again

That's something I hadn't been considering for some reason. If you follow that route, connecting the fronts and disabling the reciever's crossover, will that also determine how low the frequencies are cut to the surrounds? It seems like it would because the sub's crossover would tell it to play only frequencies below, say 40hz. Meanwhile, if the surrounds are set to small with an 80 hz crossover you get a gap in response. I guess the answer would be to switch back and forth between enabling/disabling the sub's crossover. It's something I'll have to play with over the weekend. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks for all the tips. I'll check out Audiogon and maybe consider Dean's crossovers one day. I'll try over on the HT side as well.

I use an RCA cable from my reciever to the sub and let the reciever cross over at 80 hz. Unfortunately, that's as low as the Denon will let me cut the frequency. I really haven't ever had an issue with setting the speakers to small and cutting their low frequency during movie playback. My concern has always been with music, particularly because it seems like signals as high as 80 hz can still have a lot of directional qualities to them. and I don't like the idea of hearing the bass, or kick drum or whatever coming from the corner of the room when it's supposed to be coming at me from both speakers. For me, this is a compromise using an extraordinary sub until I can get an amp that will do the job.

Thanks for the opinions. I'm getting the impression you all don't feel investing the bigger bucks in the HT is the way to go. That's fine but the HT still needs some work to get to the point where I'm happy with it so I might as well try to make it the best 2-channel system I can in the meantime. My music system is barely a seed in my mind and it's already more expensive than I care to think ... so I think it will be a while before I can move on. Thanks again for the thoughts. As an aside, does anyone have any thoughts about McIntosh's MC206. It's 125 watts of McIntosh power into 8 ohms but it is missing the autoformers available in their other amps. I've seen fairly decent deals on used models, although still more expensive than many other options. How would this work as a compromise for HT and 2-channel as I work my way up to a dedicated system?

Sorry, I was trying to keep the post short. The long version is that I used to be a Denon fan and, unfortunately, I am no longer. I upgraded to RF7s from a Synergy-based system about 8 or 9 months ago and I was all smiles for several months. I did keep the KSW 12, however, and never used it except for movies. The past few months, I've noticed that when I push the SPLs I get a lot (perception of course) of harshness and an annoying sybillance in S sounds. Funny thing, I never noticed that before a few months ago. Maybe my enthusiasm for the RF7s was blinding my ears. Maybe I just got used to the sound. The result is that yes, I've been listening at lower volumes to avoid the harshness. Either way, when I got my new sub I decided to try it for music and cut the low frequencies at 80 hz, the lowest available on the Denon 2802. It's something I never did with the KSW-12 because, frankly, it just sounded boomy and it never did much for me when coupled with the RF7s. (I did enjoy it quite a bit with Synergy though) Anyway, to cut to the chase, with the low frequency sent to the sub I can push the fronts to those same high SPLs and the harshness/sybillance is much reduced. It's still there but not nearly to the same levels. The 2802 does have pre-outs and I know the upgrade path will require me to use it as a pre/pro. I'm just wondering what musical benefits I can expect from a better amp and whether that will get rid of the sybillance or whether the pre-amp will have to do the trick. Thanks for the replies.

sorry, double post

Hi all. I'm posting this on the 2-channel forum in hopes of getting some input on how certain improvements may affect my system. I'm no newbie to this hobby but I'm far from an expert audiophile with a dream system. Still, I'm working up to a decent rig. Anyway, a day ago I received my SVS sub and for kicks I kept the crossover set to 80 hz for music. I never liked doing that before but now, I can push my receiver much harder before I start hearing the strain/harshness and sybillating Ssss's from the RF7s. So, my question is, how much will my system improve by getting only a separate amplifier to push the speakers and using the reciever as a processer? Will I lose most of the strain/harshness or will that happen only after I pick up a new pre-amp/processor? I'm thinking down the road here but solid state is what I'm interested in, specifically because this system (really far down the road) eventually will be exlusively set for HT. My real 2-channel system hasn't even started to be built yet. For now, though, music is still extremely important to me and I'd like to get the most out my system until that beautiful day in the future when I'll have a dedicated stereo and a dedicated HT.