TheSoundBroker

(Ahem...cough) Face Audio F-2000TX. Sell them both, did the direct comparisons. Equivalent rated power to the IT-4000, but an old school Class AB design with a massive power supply. Needs a 30 amp line for the best performance (then again, so do the ITechs), definitely more potent down below as it is optimized for LFE use. Also, Crown is reissuing the MacroTech anniversary editions which look SWEET but will probably be snatched up quickly. Lot of guys in the touring industry (except the roadies) miss their Macrotechs which are...ahem...old school class A/B designs with massive power supplies. Concensus is they sound better. Also need to play around with the newest potential cheap uber amp king, the new XLS 5000 which is (TADA!) 2 ohm stable! That means they may have actually put a halfway decent power supply in there (kinda have to with 1100/ch into 8). Lot of horsepower for $1395.

Cool! Thanks for the Heads up on that one!

You can get better,but prepare to spend several times as much and go with something massive like Danley or JBL packages. Here you no lonfer gravitate around a mere 10-15K we are talking many many times more expensive(complete speaker amp package). Actually, Danley Labs has a package that is equivalently priced to the Ultra 2 system (if you use 7 of the SH-100's and a DTS-20)...but it is more industrial looking and does take more careful acoustic setup because of the dispersion pattern. The Ultra 2 system has a bit more dynamic range, but the Danley is a bit more coherent because all channels are absolutely identical, plus the DTS-20 sub is better. They do have a larger system based around the SH-100B which is a BEAST of a speaker, but there are are getting into higher $$'s. There is also the medium and large JTR packages which need again more careful treatment, a bit more horsepower, but are by far and away the most dynamic (130 db+ from 40 to 20K) and the best buy. I sell all three and like them all for different reasons.

Remember, there are itwo aspects to acoustics...Isolation to keep the sound IN the room, and acoustics to make the room and system sound better. Isolation is NOT always necessary or needed. It depends on the person, the design of the house, and the budget. If budget is limited, acoustics are ALWAYS first. There are things you can do that are not horrifyingly expensive but still help...such as staggered studs, dual drywall layers and using higher density Roxul Mineral wool insulation for the stud cavities instead of low density pink/white fiberglass. These don't cost that much more and will provide some level of isolation. Green Glue isn't cheap, but dollar per dollar is is exceptionally effective and WAY more cost effective (argueably more acoustically effective) than Quiet Rock. Quiet Rock is $$$, but allows you to get good isolation with a single layer of drywall. Also remember...if you isolation the heck out of the room, then put standard HVAC ducts in, you'll get nearly as much noise in your other rooms as if you had done no acoustic isolation at all. The HVAC ducting system must be isolated or it becomes a HUGE noise pathway to the rest of the house. Speaker wise...if the K-Horns don't work in the room, sell them and use the money for something that does. To keep them just for the sake of having them doesn't make sense. Blasphemy? Maybe...but they either work or they don't work. They are not only overkill for surrounds, but it is very much arguable they will be a problem since to get coverage to the front seats with a rear raised platform will be difficult since the rear seatbacks may block the surround info. A trio of LaScalas with upgraded crossovers with Heresy's in the back and a really kick @ss sub system sounds absolutely incredible as a home theater. K-Horns are FABULOUS loudspeakers, but if they aren't appropriate, then they aren't appropriate. As for Ultra 2 subs with a KA-1000 with the LaScalas, nice, but there is an even better match in the same price range...the Danley DTS-20. It is the ideal match in this setup being that everything will be behind a screen wall. The Danley is horn loaded so it just flat out WORKS with the big horn loaded Heritage. It is the only modestly sized horn sub that gets ultra deep and has the sound quality to truly match perfectly with Heritage. It is just under 8' tall and 20" on a side, but his setup is tailor made for it. The problem I see with IB sub setups is they give you a lot of deep bass, but they do lack a bit of that direct slam you in the chest feeling and a quad 18" IB setup may not keep up dynamically with a Heritage front array. If you can swing making everything horn loaded up front that is the ideal setup in my book.

What is the distance between your back wall and your listening area? If it is at least 4' and you get mounts that allow you to tilt the RB-81's down towards the area, then I'd go for it. This assumes your seating area isn't more than 6 seats wide. One trick on the RB-81's is to mount them upside down so the horns are down lower...just flip the logo over. Also, you MUST MUST MUST mount them into a stud, preferably with an Omni-mount Pro mount. Otherwise, I'd go with the RS-62's which have wier dispersion and are designed for a more vertical placement, but still give pretty darned good directional clues (remember, they are NOT dipoles, more like wide dispersion monopoles).

Let me guess now...Mark Seaton did design this sub. Am I correct mister ? He is a master of extracting HUGE performance out of what looks like ordinary PR's and drivers. No comment [H]

RF-7's absolutely 100% need more horsepower and low impedance stability than nearly any receiver can deliver. Start amp shopping.

This is designed to be the next step up beyond the ED or the Epik. As for the LMS-5400...yes, it is an insane driver for super subs. It is also $2000 a piece just for the driver in the current company itineration and it is arguable whether two of them will "bulldoze" this sub down deep. Remember, with 2, that is $4K and you still need to build a cabinet. With these, you get the cabinets. If folks want to DIY, I'm all for it. But remember, there are a LOT of guys out there who never will build a sub. They either haven't the time, resources, tools or comfort level to DIY. That is why I started this project. I wanted something that had more output and lower distortion than the ED or Epik and was tailored to fit behind a typical screen wall...and I wanted it to come in around $2K. It needed to come from guys with serious credentials that couldn't be argued with. I believe it has succeeded. That is not to say, I won't try a version with the TC Sounds drivers in them just to see how insane things can get, but guaranteed it won't cost $2K. As for the Danley, it may no longer be the ultimate king of low bass output or extension...but it is still the defacto reference for bass QUALITY. Nothing so far has bested it and it is still one of the ultimate subs. Remember, even compared to the twin LMS-5400's, there is always something bigger, badder and more hellacious. As of now, for those who seek the absolute ultimate, no arguement, most output, make you die from bass sub, Danley does have the Matterhorn. If somebody has the budget, space and lack of brains to buy one, It does 105 db at 15 hz at 250 METERS...outdoors. Hook it to a room and it would likely damage the structure from the pressure output. I am a Danley dealer if you want to order one. It even comes in it's own shipping container...heck it is built into one. You can' t argue that it is the only sub out there that can be shipped over and over without having to worry about packing it up.

Two RSW-10's are not going to have the output or extension to match an RSW-15. Will outdo a single RSW-12. Having two will allow you to load the room but they'll never get as deep as an RSW-15. That was a beast of a subwoofer, though it absolutely 100% MUST be EQ'd for it to sound the best.

Having sold/set up a number of both systems over the years I feel somwhat qualified to answer the question. In short, yes, the THX Ultra 2 system is worth the price difference. It comes down to two things... First is the effortless way the Ultra 2 system reproduces large soundtracks. The commercial horns in them and the way the system loads the room allows for a far larger and more effortless sound than the RF-83 system. It simply sounds more like a state of the art commercial cinema. This assumes you give it the proper amount of horsepower (Receiver based systems need not apply if you want to hear it like it is supposed to sound). Second is refinement. The Ultra 2 system is one of the rare systems which can deliver utterly furous amounts of sound, but delivers incredibly subtle sound as well. As good as the Reference RT-12d sub is, it is no match for the Ultra 2 sub package. Don't get me wrong...the RF-83 system is a ridiculously great buy. It sounds absolutely wonderful and as for bang for the buck, it is hard to argue with. I've set up a number of systems using RB-81's behind screen walls and we consider it the THX Ultra 2 Jr system. But...if the budget for the room and electronics allows then there is no doubt the Ultra 2 system is the superior product.

The generally accepted rule of thumb is 1.5 to 2X RMS power in the amp to the speakers for live sound.You can translate this over to home audio to 1.5X RMS and be safe. This translates to 375/ch into the RF-7s. If you require more than 1.5X RMS to maintain the output in the space without clipping, you need a larger speaker system with more output and higher efficiency. In my listening experience...since I have and sell a number of the different amps being talked about here...the Crown vs QSC debate will depend on which line you are looking at. Crown Macrotech's are excellent but are discontinued. I-Tech's (the replacement) don't sound as good, though the crews love them because they weight nothing in comparison and they are a lot more efficient. In the $500 price range, you have the Crown XTi and the QSC PLX-2. Of them, I prefer the XTi. Neither of them is as good as the Face Audio TS series. I also sell the Behringer's but wouldn't use them as a mid/top end amp. To be fair to Behringer, we've only had one failure in all the amps we've sold and Behringer had a replacement shipped the same day. Oh, and the EP-2500 was modeled after the QSC RMX-2400...the 2450 is the newer version. It is a decent subwoofer amp, but compared to the bigger iron, doesn't have the sheer grunt down below and it loses output power as the frequencies go down and the power supply runs out of oomph. Putting a single channel of one of the large 30 amp required beasts vs a bridged EP-2500, it isn't even close. On the mega amps, the big QSC's aren't the best sounding in my experience. The Crown Macrotech's are excellent amps, but I'd put the Face F-2000TX up against them. They brought that line out after Crown went to all switch mod power supplies in their new amps (the F-2000TX is a classic old school Class AB amp with a stupidly enormous power supply). I have two of them in my room, each with 30 amp dedicated lines to them and they are more transparent than the Macrotech's in side by side comparisons.

The R5650S and R5800W work well with the Reference series boxes speakers...I've sold/set up a number of them. If you still have time, install the back boxes! They make a substantial difference in the bass response you'll get from the speakers. You'll want to set the tweeter level to the lower position on the R5800W if you use the current gen IV reference products up front. If you can't use the back boxes, you'll need a sub that is very smooth up top (RT-12/RT-10) and you'll want to set the bass management to cross the rears out a bit higher than normal. The absolute best possible match going rear/front using box speakers up front and in-wall in the rear are to go with the THX Ultra 2 sats (KL-650) and the THX Ultra 2 inwalls. There, the tonal match is about as good as it gets.

My experience is that it depends on the room. I'll use a 6.1 array with a wide room that can't go to a 7.1 THX ASA setup (which is very similar to a 6.1 array with more energy in the back and a bit wider coverage). The number and placement of surrounds is first and foremost about even coverage to the seats and you often end up with coverage holes, particularly in rooms with a single row of 5 or more seats and a monopole rear surround setup. Using a center works well to fill in the center seat section when rear monopoles are used. In a particularly wide room you can also go to a single WDST surround in the rear, which gets you a wider coverage swath without quite so much localization. The one thing to remember on the center channel in back is the coverage...many centers limit vertical dispersion to minimize floor bounce and immediate reflections off the ceiling. This means the center will need to be pointed down towards the listening area. A WDST surround like an RS-62 gives you a wide coverage area with good vertical downward coverage and doesn't need to be pointed down. This is particularly important if your seats are closer to the rear wall. If the seats are against the rear wall and there was no way to convince the client to move them out a few feet, then a WDST in-ceiling speaker is the way to go..but only after one final round of begging to be allowed at least 2 feet of space between the seat and the wall.

That would be the way I would go. Yes, it is absolutely okay to mix the RT-12/RSW-10D with the X-series. Typically it is okay to mix and match subs with main speakers. The one thing you need to be certain of is the sub is clean up to about 1 octave above where the main speaker rolls off (this is one area where the Klipsch subs do particularly well). I would lean towards the RT-10 or RT-12 because they have the output to energize that size space (RT-12 more so) and the room correction circuitry makes a very significant difference sonically. The RSW-10D has more output and power than the XW-500D but it is still a bit sketchy for a 5K ft^3 space in my book (then again, I am a bassaholic!). Any of them will be a huge step up from the Bose. The wall bracket is designed to mount flat on the wall. What you would do is build a wedge to point the speaker into the area and paint the wedge the wall color. The wedge can be made from any material you want but most use wood. Depending on the angle you need a 4 x 4 ripped down, sanded and painted will probably work. We did one using a block of black Plexiglass for one client...came out beautufully but the labor time was stupid compared to ripping a 4 x 4 down and after all was said and done, his wife wanted it painted the wall color (GRRR!). Of course there is always the matching XFS Floor stands...[]

Me too...and I'm a DEALER!

Yup! I do sell Furman. Very nice gear, good company to deal with. Used a LOT in the pro industry. PM me if you are interested in one.

Thanks. Been stupidly busy with my other company that is growing like a fungus (MoldBuster).

Hmmm. My first instinct would be to go to the XL-23 based system if you have to wall mount the mains. You don't want to mix/match Reference and XL/RVX series across the front three channels, they have a distinctly different sound character to them. If you are going to go with the Reference, then you'll want to go to Reference speakers for the left/right as well. Your instinct to get the better center is a good one, but keep in mind the Bose center is about as bad as they get for vocal intelligability in a large room like you have, so anything in the Klipsch line will be a significant step up and the XL-23 center which offers the same type of constant directivity as the RC-64 horn, should sound excellent. If you can fit Reference mains...either floor standing or bookshelf, then by all means do it...but they are not going to be as elegant or as discreet as the X series products. By the way, the X series is a pretty nice step up from RVX. That new horn design takes a lot of what Klipsch learned from the Reference IV series and extends it to the X series...it is NIIIICE! The XF-42 is very very sweet! The idea of going to all XL-10s sounds interesting, but not in a room that size. You'll have a very significant response hole in the midbass (i.e. no punch) and just not enough output in the front stage. They are sweet little speakers in 5's, but just not in a 7500 ft^3 room! Subwoofer...that is where you have issues. Problem is, you have not had a subwoofer yet in that room (the Bose rolls off at 42 hz so it is NOT a subwoofer). That is a very large area and most subs will be lost. This is one area I'd invest some $$ into. If you can swing it, the RT-12D would be near the top of the list if space is tight. If the budget doesn't allow, there are several others that will do the trick (P.M. for details). The XW-500D is a nice sub, but again, in that size space, it is going to be a bit lost.

You might want to check out the post on this forum on the 12 hz to 50 hz monster sub... It should fit the bill quite nicely.

If your gear is in a cabinet, look at the Face Audio F500TS amp. Reason I say in a cabinet is that this is a pro amp and thus has fans. Reason I like it is because those amps are the closest I've heard to the Bryston and they are also beautifully built. Disclaimer...yes I sell both.

Small tube amps work great with most Klipsch speakers. You noticed that word "most". The RF-7 doesn't fall into that category. Figure a near 2 ohm impedance dip down at the resonance point of the woofers and you can pretty much eliminate a 30 watt/ch amp from the RF-7 camp. What that spekaers likes is horsepower. Great big steaming piles of horsepower. A good solid 300/ch is where it is going to start getting happy. Best combo I ever heard with RF-7's was with a Bryston 4BSST at 300/ch into 8. There ARE some tube amps that will work, but think more along the lines of giant VTL/Manley Labs, ARC or CJ with boatloads of glowing glass. At the price of those beasts, you'd be better off selling the RF-7's, getting some LaScala II's, a kick *** sub system and a smallish tube amp...and you'd probably save some money.

Nope. Not TC/Audio Pulse. Heck, their big drivers cost more than this bloody sub will! LMS-Ultra is an awesome woofer but man they are bloody expensive! As for comparison to the DTS-20...how convenient I just happen to have a DTS-20 here to compare it to!

Yeah, the ET sub is awesome. Ought to be for well over 10X the price! I suspect for most folks, this sub may end up being...um..."adequate".

Nope. Not going to make THX standards and not intended to. This sub is ideal for those who have mains that are a bit more full range, such as Cornwalls, La Scalas, K-Horns, RF083's, RF-7's, etc and want something to extend the frequency response down really really deep. There are also a number of good midbass subs that could be integrated in with a system to extend the response range up higher (JTR Growler or the Danley Mini come to mind) for those running smaller mains.

Not the amp you are triggering...it is the Furman you are triggering. The preamp 12 volt output triggers the Furman which turns on as does anything plugged into it.