Scp53

However, with that said, you have raised several more questions. You think the 12" DVC would perform as well as the 15" Titantic? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- are you talking about that one on a deal- from 550 msrp marked down to like 169? if you are talking about that one, yes it is better than the 15 titanic. How do you install a cross over if neither my prospective amp nor my receiver (Denon 3801) have crossover controls? I will have to check to see if the Denon has such controls, I just bought it and don't know off the top of my head. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- you can buy a sub crossover-actual board inside the cab, but that is more permenant, you can't just switch it like a turn nob on a regular plate amp. I suggest that you buy a external amp that is specifically for a sub. hopefully someone else knows of a amp that is just like plate amp except for external use. Bridged? Don't know about it, please explain. So, a 500 watt amp could suffice with hardly a noticable drop-off? So, it's not like a 1000 watt amp will appear as twice as powerful as a 500 watt? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- do you know anything about db and how it relates to power? every time you double your power input you gain 3db. I won't get into more specifics but all I can say is that going from a 500 wt to 1000 wts will make little difference. its more for headroom, not continuous use. and I saw that the most that samson could put out into 4 ohms was 500wt rms. you ask about bridged, this is when the amp combines both of its channels into one. so instead of stereo you combine it to mono. this is meant to gain much more power into one channel. So you think the ported sub is the way to go? Where do I pick up MDF board, at a lumber yard or at a specialty speaker store? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- the reason I say go ported is because it will give you more spl. ive had speakers that are ported and some that aren't-including my sub. big difference in power needed to drive them. and because the drivers your looking at are very well built you won't need to worry about sloppy, uncontroled bass(ported usually tends to not have as tight of bass. sealed has tighter bass). I think, if I remember right, if you put two speakers(identical ones) in enclosures- one of them in the correct sealed enclousure and the other in correct ported enclosure, the one in the ported will play 3db louder. to get the other up to that spl you'll need to double the power. here, go to this link: http://www.klipsch.com/product/homeaudiofaq.aspx#amp this might better explain db to you. but i don't think it talks about ported/sealed enclousures.... and yes mdf is at lumber stores usually. there are acoustic grades of mdf but any mdf should do. scp53

mike, you have one nice looking system. VERY COOL. nice speakers too. good luck experimenting! scp53

email klipsch parts. parts@klipsch.com or support@klipsch.com

i was just writing a relpy when D-Rex posted. itsmyforte, that is one H#LL of a nice sub. D-Rex, maybe you want to consider that. its slightly less sensitive but handles much more power. for tha price it is a steal if its what you want. things that are better on it: dual 4ohm vc's- I think you could run that samson 500 wts a coil. as longs as its giving out equal power to both channels. or- this is actually the better thing to do- bridge the amp and run the vc in series and hook it up to that bridged channel. dual spiders- this basically controls the woofer a lot better at extreme excursions. if you know what a spider is on the woofer, just imagine placing another one right under that one. if you don't know what a spider is, look up the titanic woofers, click on anyone of them, and below its description there is a a picture- side view of the titanic. and it points out the spider and many other things. good to look at if you don't understand a speaker well(just saying this. hope im not offending anybody. I don't think your dumb, I just don't know if you understand a speaker.) double stacked mags: gives the vc a longer stroke and more powerful. its total mag weight is more than the titanic 15 total mag weight. and of course the price usually means its better. in this case its 250 more than titanic 15 msrp. so its probably better scp53

first off let me say that I am very depressed . your gonna have a better sub than I have . congradulations on coming to the light, this is where you get very good performance for the $$$. the only thing I question is: will that samson control phase and the crossover point? I don't think it will but maybe Im wrong. you may need a crossover control or somthing. or an eq. I dunno. I will say that for 360 that is a heck of a nice amp. svs sells them(samson) on there site but for 100 more or so. does you reciever control crossover point? maybe that would work. and can you get it to 4 ohms bridged? running 8 ohms into a 4 ohm driver is not good. causes more heat on amp. although 500 wts into 4 ohms is very good. jumping from 500 to 1000 wts is doubling your wattage. every time you double wattage you gain 3db(roughly). so going from 500 to 1000 wts may or may not be a big deal. having that 1000 wts is just good for peaks in movie/music playback. note: 3db is audioable to some people and hardly at all to others. either way its a small increase in output. for the cab, call partsexpress up. get the correct cab size for a PORTED HOME CAB with the TITANIC MKIII 15" DRIVER. I would recommend using foam on the sides. they can tell you the correct foam to use. and how thick, etc. you may be able to friction fit the foam in- no glue or adhisive needed. and when you build the cab, internally brace it for sure. what wood are you going to use? I highly recommend mdf. consitantly dense and good for speaker building. and then you need to buy a port. PE tech support can tell you what size. I beleive they sell ports called "Percision Ports" or something like that. just don't buy a really cheap port. get one with flared end(s)- or what ever PE tells you to use. flared will help get rid of port turbulence- if any. just make sure that you have a friend to help you move it. its gonna be a beast. 100+ lbs. do you have long enough arms to reach around it and hold on? hopefully it will be a pleasent experience... good luck scp53 Jon ps: tell use how you like it when its done. don't take to many pictures off the wall

the best material is mdf, either 3/4" or thicker. my sub is one of those kits. I would have built the cab but it would be more expensive- at least I thought it would be. being that you might possibly use this sub later in a basement, you'll want something bigger than a 10" driver. how much do you want to feel it? average shaking or do you want something that will tear your basement apart . for a basement- for sure do it ported. Ive heard some very good things about the dayton DVC 15 inch- $132. is cab size a factor? if you built a ported cab and with this driver and got a 500 wt or 1000wt amp, you'll have some very good bass. as for front or down firing- can't speak to what works the best. from a longevity point of view, the front firing is better. down firing ones can get suspension problems. thats because its always hanging down. Id recommend front firing because it will last longer and like you said, seems to put out more. all those titanic kits are front firing. you said you like the 15inch titanic but want to build your own cab. that would be fine but you'll spend more $$. the driver cost 200, amp is 400, cab 25-100, spikes 20, grille/fabric/paint/etc-$20-80. so you see it is more money- at least if you care about cosmetics it is. if you build it with a different wood, Im not sure how well it will work. if you build it with oak/etc, to help reinforce the cab(even though you still braced it), use some fiberglass epoxy stuff at a auto store. you just mix the two liquids togather and than coat the inside. like 3-5 layers. ive never done it but someone I know says it works really well. the titanic 15 is more quality and more money. the dvc 15 has more output and is cheaper. both will play very well.

read post below.

just checked your room specs, 12' x 16'... that 12 titanic will be fine. is your floor cement or is it elevated. trust me, this can make a big difference in its shaking ability. if you can afford it though, get the 15inch- won't have to push it as hard to get the spl you want. Im writing all this thinking you want to go diy. is this the case?

D-Rex, just tell me if Im not specific or informitive enough. hope im helping you out... scp53

It is a 12" Infinite Baffle Dayton subwoofer speaker. Everything else you said is much like Greek to me. From what you said I presume the actual speaker (portion with the magnet) is the driver. If that is true there is a 15" driver from a Klipsch RSW-15 on Ebay that I would bid on. One sold a few weeks back for $200. I was thinking of the RSW-15 sub when I was mentioning placing both "drivers" in the same box. I was wanting to attempt to recreate what I felt at Ultimate Electronics a few weeks ago (when I first heard the RSW-15) by placing two "drivers" in my DIY sub. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- first off, to use that driver(rsw 15) correctly, u need to have the passive radiator too(part that is unpowered- no magnet, just suspension). and second, the amp from klipsch on that sub is eq'd, in other words- if you got both the rsw 15 and its identical passive radiator but used a regular amp, the sound wouldn't be natural- there would be peaks and dips in the freq response. Ported? Sealed? No clues what you mean here. But, with each conversation with you I gain a little more each time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- you don't know what a ported sub is . shame on you . just kidding. a ported sub would mean placing the woofer(driver) in a box with a port- gives more output but not as tight. a sealed(air/acoustic suspension) sub is one with no opening for air- has less output and is quicker and tighter. and i can't remember which box type gives the lowest extension...I think the ported has lower extention(plays lower hz). but the ported rolls off slower but starts sooner. someone will need to correct me on this. my recommendation is- opt #1: buy the rsw 15 woofer ONLY if you can get a matching radiator(i checked ebay right now- one rsw 15 but its a POS. looks like its broken) my recommendation- don't use klipsch's drivers for a sub unless you know ALL the specs for the cab and amp. otherwise you could end up with a bad sounding sub. that rsw 15 woofer is nice, but it is ABOSOLUTLY necessary to use it in the correct cab/amp. *******opt #2*******- call parts express and see if that infinite baffle sub is any good for cabs. I beleive that the one you have is supposed to be mounted in a wall. so maybe you'll have to get a new driver... I would recommend a dvc or quatro woofer(s). how loud do you need it? for 650 green ones, you can get a titanic 15inch mk3 sub with a cab and 1000 wt rms amp. I think you already know, I have the 10 inch model. I really like it as long as the amp doesn't clip. Im sure that the titanic 15 would be fine for you. it can give you around 115 db in room! thats pretty darn good- considering it has only one driver and no ports. very tight. and the build quality will be right up with the rsw's- at least close. I have weighed the 10 inch woofer and its 19lbs. tells you right away its well built. has a very long stroke vc and vented well. nice 12-16 spoke basket. surround is large and its made in the USA- imagine that. I would strongly consider this sub. for 650 its a steal. and if you still want more out of it, just port it. but porting would mean you need to get a whole different box. ported vs sealed can give you around 3db more spl. actually I just checked.. the price is 688 with free shipping. only 38 more than 650. goodluck scp53

the Ear should know where to place it. I would say what ever you do, don't corner load it! it can make it boomy and unatural. besides, that sub has plenty of spl output- no need to corner load it. maybe put it to the side of your mains(L or R main?)? I dunno. just make sure it is in phase. just my $.02 Im no expert with sub placment. scp53

I say DIY all the way- and you already have a driver. tell me which Dayton sub you have- is it a quatro, dvc, titanic or...? and what 15inch would you want to get? I think your best bet would be either to run both in seperate chambers- same cab- full range(ported,sealed??). but maybe you could do some crossover work and have the 12 do the higher parts and the 15 ultra low bass..? but I personally feel get ONE good sub driver and a amp. multiple drivers will work but can cause more problems. if you really want to use dual drivers, buy a identical sub as you already have(figuring that the driver is suitable for car- which I think it is). this will make sure that there perfectly matched. where would you buy the 500 wt amp? if u use that kind of power the driver needs to be more sensitive to get something out of it... like those titanics(i have one), the only reason u need a lot of power is to make up for there lower sensitivity. good luck. make sure to tell us what driver you have. scp53

its not worth the risk...

Id use the rb 5's for mains. and then get a better sub. like how much more will you spend on a sub? would you consider making your own passive sub? I know for a fact that you can get better performance from a DIY sub than a prebuilt passive. goodluck scp53

I notice a drastic difference with my titanic mk3 sub. I bought a sub cable with the signal split already at the end. its basically one big Y cable meant for a subwoofer. works well. big output difference, you won't have to turn up the level on the sub as much.

I have never used a external amp for a sub. it would be better in some ways because you'll have less to rattle and it will weigh less too. I thought you were going with a klipsch,yammie,or velodyne. now you want you amp seperate? svs sells amps, so does partsexpress.com. but PE doesn't have any that are meant to be external. they have like 3 different ones that would interest pwr wise- 250,500 and 1000 watts rms into 4 ohm amps. the 500wt cost $300 and the 1000wt is $400. these are marked down though: 500wt specs reg price- $500 * High power class AB output stage * Patented tracking downconverter power supply * Full parametric bass EQ * Phase reversal switch * Advanced soft clip circuitry * Toroidal power supply transformer * Auto On/Off * Power output: 273 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 540 watts RMS @ 4 ohms * S/N ratio: 98 dB (A weighted) * Crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave 1000 watt specs - reg price: $600 # High power Class AB output stage # Patented tracking downconverter power supply # Full parametric bass EQ # Phase reversal switch # Auto On/Off # Advanced soft clip circuitry # Toroidal power supply transformer # Power output: 512 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 1024 watts RMS @ 4 ohms # S/N ratio: 98 dB (A-weighted) # Low-pass crossover: 30 - 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave # Auto On/Off heres a link to all PE's plate amps- http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&&DID=7&CATID=43&ObjectGroup_ID=505 good luck scp53

I was also thinking of adding spikes?.....

is redoin my cabs for my sb3's worth it? I like there sound, pretty good for the price. the cabs have a few consmetic marks but nothing serious. if I decided to do so, could I re-use the port? or will it tear to get it off? I was think going to oak or something- cherry maybe. and also need to get new grilles because one of them has a small tear and the other is missing a spike. and if I did it should I buy better foam- denser, different material, etc. and will the different wood affect its sound? I was thinking if I did this I d build it identical to the original cab except different wood and brace it better. also, I would use fiberglass- what ever its called(like stuff at a auto store- mix epoxy and something else and then it gets hard), to coat the interior 3-5 times. this would make it sealed very well, and also overall better built. any thoughts on mods to this speaker. Ive heard that this one company had foam that would make you speakers tighter and deeper than when using the original foam. I don't plan on going to a reference speaker for a good while, and even then the new ones have no real wood. the real reason i want to do this it to give it more character- right now it just looks black. ive seen other speakers with real/fake wood of different color thatn black- it makes a difference. not only are they pleasing(if there klipsch or the like) to the ear but also to the eye. thanks, scp53

If I just run a sine wave from 10hz-100hz- shouldn't that tell me if theres a problem. tomorrow I need to fix some rattles on it-amp plate resonates, spikes, etc. I wish i had a spare amp. like something more powerful. right now Im using my sub out on the DVD player(no, I haven't got a surr. receiver with sub out. i really need to get it though). I also have run it with stereo line in from the dvd player and then back out to the receiver. but when I run it on my parents yamaha surr receiver, I get the same darn thing- with the same cds/songs. can a amp clip and not get hot? it seems to me that usually when this sound occurs is when the amp is on the warmer side. unless I have just powered it up.

the tone control is the same. all I can really adjust is where the bass goes- sub, main, or both. I don't think its being masked by the sounds it makes in movies. there are music parts in movies that play just fine. when I go to music though I can have problems. I ll try to describe it better- the sound. well first off the music sounds fine from low to med levels. its on the higher excursion that I get a sound(on some songs)- like the driver isn't controled when it switches directions- the driver is not dampening correctly, which means the amp is not doing its job. Im positive the driver(which is a titanic mk3- about 19 lbs and built like a tank) is not at fault because its been designed by Van Dickenson(audiophile speaker designer)- so the driver matches the cab/amp well. I just think that he put a lesser powered amp into it- keeps it cheaper. the amp is only feeding the sub a little over half or what the sub can take- so its hungry for more. kits above mine- one is a 12" and has a amp that matches its rms pwr and a 15 that handels 800wt and amp has 1000wt of power. so those subs are not underpowered. why would a VERY well built driver all the sudden be uncontroled? remember Ive ran sin wave from 10hz to 100hz- a couple rattles but not driver problems. Im still set on the fact that the cd is burned hotter/amp clipping from cd being "hot". any better way to test it? shouldn't a sin wave do it? Ive talked to multiple people- from different areas(areas-like tech support,neighbor whos into sound, this forum, PE forum, etc) each thought it could easily be possible for the cd being the problem. thanks for all the replies scp53

I talked to the guy a again today-just killing time. He said he thinks horns are harsher than what his speakers have-well duh! there not going to sound quite as nice- in that respect. there are many better things about horns than he sees. I think he needs to come from a price performance point of view. I could guarentee that my klipsch will blow away his "Truaudio" in every way except "harshness". and he thinks you should drop huge @$$ amounts of $$$$$$$ into DVD players and amps/preamps- all for the sake to have a little better sound? Im no audiophile and never will be- thats just plain stupid to get something better than klipsch heritage or higher up reference. I heard some audiophile speakers he had there to night- but they wern'y even that loud and they drivers were being pushed(like dual 5.25 or 6 inch drivers- heck my parents sb-1s could play better than that ). then i ask do you have a horn loaded speaker. some jamo he pulls out- kinded of acted like it was a big deal - horn technology in a speaker for audiophiles- omg. then Im like whats the sensitivity- now im warning you - be prepared- its a pretty high sensitivity rating , hope you don't **** you pants, I sure did because its so F#%$ing low!- 91 db 1wt/m. and guess what the worst part is- he thinks thats good sensitiviy. and says that power is cheap now. my @$$ its cheap. you can go from a 100x2 amp to 200x2 amp- and Im sure theres a considerable difference- especially in those really high end amps. why would you want to get a bigger friggin amp- the speakers get hotter, amp is hotter, takes more $$$ for the amp and electricity, distortion higher, etc. at least if you going to have higher power amps have speakers that can make good use of them. this guy never told me once that he would consider himself or these speakers audiophile- I had to ask. then he almost fell over and died when I told him I was using a analog ss rca stereo receiver(its a receiver- not a three in one POS). all I gotta say is one thing......IM STILL A KLIPSCH FAN!!!!!!!!!! let audiophiles and the like piss away money on 10-50,000 dollar speakers- for the sake of hearing music/movies that is not perfect. actually I think those really expensive speakers probably have no color or character- they would sound to perfect to listen to. all blan and plain sounding. yuck! scp53- KLIPSCH ROCKS

I just want to say something else that Bose has a twist on. I went and found there testomnials- all "4"(wow- 4- , thats a lot) are on the wave radio/cd alarm clock. probably the only thing that they make decent- but still crappy. why wouldn't they post lifestyle reviews...hmm...oh...I remember no one wrote a F*%@ing reveiw for it because it F@!*ING SUCKS!! I read a lot of that review of taking apart the lifestyle system- pretty shocking. Those Blose people should feel ashamed of themselves - ripping people off and taking home the money(I don't think they even listen to there own systems- probably buy something else.)

I think alot of it is opinion. but he seemed to be audiophilish to me. maybe he doesn't like horns? hell I don't really know. I ll ask him today. oh yeah, he told me that the heritage speakers are just "ok", nothing compared to what he sells. but he wasn't fair in comparisons. I will gaurentee that any klipsch speaker will smoke any of his for the price- when looking at power handeling, spl's, dynamicness, and some other things. $hit... I looked up the specs on even there(Allison) $30,000 speakers- only like 91 db 1wt/1meter and like 200wts rms. thats pretty $hitty. but they must have excellent excellent excellent imaging and soundstage. I leave that to people that are well above audiophiles.

I ran into a booth at the fair in my area. they install audio video and security systems. they sell Jamo, Velodyne, Allison, Truaudio, MTX and others I can't remember right now. Ive never heard of Truaudio- are they better than Klipsch? he said they were. I think quality might but the price to performance ratio is better on the klipsch IMO. any thoughts of this brand or the others that I listed? are they good for HT? good for music? both? comparable to Klipsch for the price? scp53

I would think that that sub will work with those klf's. I ve heard the rsw 12 with the some rf speakers, can't remember which ones, and that sub kept up fine. in a 20-25ft by20-25 ft room. shook the whole concrete floor. Ive never heard the 15 though... Some might say its not as tight as the 12, but thats an opinion. would you ever consider a SVS or HSU? If you can break away from the "I need a Klipsch sub", a SVS is a good sub for the money- but i could't tell you the model to get. but call or email SVS and they will make a recommendation. svsubwoofers.com scp53