boa12

again i haven't heard the rb but i think for u cb the rf are the slam dunk between the 2 unless u don't have the space & u want the better looking wood finish. being towers & having 2 woofs the rf produce deeper (by 10hz) & louder bass. in fact they're louder all together w/ 98 vs 96db efficiency. & actually the design allows so the woofs don't carry the exact same ranges - the lower woofer takes on the lowest bass easing the burden on the other to produce more of the lively midrange. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

wondered about that "stereo" sub concept. anyway, hey tv. what are the placement recommends for your powered subs - specifically, the distance from wall if any?

they sell denon @ sears? interesting. good deal & yes after being on this board i'm sold & the 5 channel stereo...but have to find 1 to listen 2. before I replace this sony though i'll probably get the new ref speaks for front&center in may. that is after i exchange my vel 15 for an HGS-18. the $ outflow continues ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

just twist em tight & don't worry

u bet t-man. hey what u do trade that sony amp in for a denon to get that 5 channel stereo (& much more)? ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

ok did a lil more research. i've been traveling so got a lil rusty on sub hook-ups i'm now 99% certain what u need is the front+sub bass output setting. & sub:yes, front-large, center&rear-small. bass mgmt as explained on my last post. use the Y to the ksw L&R in too. rock on.

yea I have a sony & rf-3 & rc-3 too. as rw says that's probably why the lack of bass - use the Y for ksw subs but i think the ksw-12 has only 2 line inputs - R & L/LFE. & yea connect the y to those & u get I think +6db. as long as u have the sony set sub:yes that should be like night & day. i have my rf-3 & rc-3 set to large, but u should set the rs-3 rears to small or play around & see which setting sound best. the effect level setting (i think on most sony) makes a big difference 2 - the higher level brings up the rear output & overall dynamics. get to know the sony manual (though mine is pretty lacking) ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

will do rw. should be about 2 wks. if your your mrs. likes the 12, she'd have to really love the 18. of course there's that extra 1k or so though but u have to get the 15 or 18 to get the standard remote which you'll need for the switching between HT (w/ your new rsw-15) & music wonder how an HGS-18 & the rsw-15 will sound together/maybe just about right...

toots, I haven't heard the rb (i meant the rf-3 & good sub sounded best of what i've heard). u may have a point-kiss-2 drivers. but i went straight for the tower concept. if u get a seperate sub u may want to look at the velodyne hgs. they pride themselves in low, clean, tight, quality bass over quantity. i had the rp-5 a few months ago & exchanged once i found some space for the sub (but it's not in a corner). the twin rp subs sounded about as loud as the current vel set-up does (even w/ it's 3000W peak amp), but that's because the RP's higher distortion levels add to the SPL. the RPs sounded great like all klipsch speakers (loud), better so on HT than music i thought. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

hey nice piece. try that 5 channel stereo mode for music. but now i remember why i don't know because reading the manual's description of front+subwoofer (under system settings-bass output) it doesn't mention LFE but i would take it to mean that for DVD 5.1 it sends LFE to the sub and low bass to both the fronts & sub &, if set to small, the center & rear low bass to the sub. that's different from my sony though (if that's the case). i'd do as we suggested & then try the subwoofer only setting w/ a good 5.1 DVD w/ lots of low bass & lfe (like the matrix) & see which sounds better. that's part of the fun - playing around w/ all the electronics ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

ok, let me take a look at your manual...

i've tried all the refs except the rb & as far as sound the rf-3 & a good seperate sub sound best imo. one plus for the rp besides the streamline set-up & space savings is that u in effect get 2 powered subs & some good bass SPL. but for the same price or lower u can get like the rf-3 & a single sub that's louder (if u have a good corner space to put it). the rp-5 did sound pretty good though (don't have to worry about getting the sub on the same plane as the mains ) and they were very easy to hook up & saved space. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

oh & on the slower speed of an 18 vs a smaller cone (rw), the tech guy says that's a myth (1 of his pet peeves). you'd have to talk to him about all the technicals on that. basically an 18 is louder w/ less distortion but not necessarily "slower". after talking w/ him (he's the PR director for vel), i can see now that when people say a sub can't keep up w/ klipsch it's not really in speed but in loudness (notice how the issue comes up all the time w/ khorns which are the most efficient). i'm no EE, but unless somebody can show me a hand-held transient reponse meter for the home, i'll call speed a subjective measure.

welcome to the kbb cb. that sounds like a sweet bass arangement. my problem though is the space & the dealer (which in effect means I can get a velodyne or a velodyne i did get a chance to talk to the 50 yr vet tech @ velodyne again. he's a definite audio purist (former bass player in the 60s or before), but basically says he would use only a HGS-18 or 2 CT-150s from vel to go w/ any klipsch (not just the k-horns). the reasoning is that klipsch are loud (efficient) whereas the hgs relatively are not - sealed boxes & the servo (guess that explains why it seems a lot of folks on this bb have their sub outputs @ noon or higher). also explains why klipsch is putting the radiator on the rsw to increase the efficiency & the SPL to match their speaks. sorry if i'm telling anyone something they already know. looks like I have no choice but to exchange for the 18 so i'll let u know how that extra 4db or so sounds. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

yea saint is right on. the denon has that under like bass management settings - sub+front. that's probably what u want. then it depends what you're playing. if it's a 2 channel source (like a CD) then it sends the same low bass (<80hz) to both your fronts & sub. if it's a 5.1 (DD AC3, like a DVD) I believe it then only sends the LFE to your sub (or maybe denons also send it to the large speaks but I doubt it) - so that's why u want the crossover high enough there. & yea a lot of people have trouble because their receivers don't have the bass mgmt of the denon, or they want to control the crossover w/ the sub by wiring speaker level thru it to the mains. u may even be able to control the sub out crossover on that denon - don't know on that.

oh, & also make sure u set the denon's bass management settings best. the kg would be large & sounds like the center & rears would be small (usually set any speaks that can't effectively reproduce bass at like 65hz or below to small). then on like the denon's bass mgmt setting set it to sub+front & u should be pretty much ready to go. turn the ksw crossover up all the way to above 100hz if u like cause the denon filters the sub out anyway. if that sounds good I wouldn't worry about the other sub hookups (other than speaker level u can also use the denon's main preouts but w/ your denon's bass mgmt capabilities that's really unnecessary).

t-man, the way u mentioned is fine to go. imo, the bass is better using the line inputs/rca interconnects rather than the high levels where u would have to use speaker wire. & the denon should work great for the bass management. there when u select sub:yes the denon filters the bass to the ksw at I think 80hz on down. so u should probably turn the ksw crossover up above that - the ksw doesn't have a crossover defeat from what I know (some subs do for using the sub pre-outs on HT receivers). but messing w/ the crossover can have the same desired effect. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

when u guys talk about having a sub for HT & another for music, are u talking running all subs at once or turning one off for the other (then i guess a sub remote comes in handy). i haven't even begun to consider 2 different subs for fear of low bass conflict. i think/hope the hgs-18 will move a lot more air & give me that extra slam. but the 15s aren't bad, i just want more. then if i ever get more space i may pick up another 18, which by then will probably be at clear-out prices.

i currently use the HGS-15 & am considering taking it back for the HGS-18. the dealer gal's opinion is that 18" subs are to "slow" for music w/ say the rf-3 mains (which I plan to upgrade to the new rf in may). but anyway, though I don't want to lose anything on music, i'm really looking for more SPL/slam for HT. any comments on the HGS-18 abilities for both HT & music? ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

yea dman or could cut a hole in the wall since there's an empty closet behind there, but have to think about the home resale value there thought about running the sub parallel to wall but figured there's more bass reinforcement w/ the back to the wall.

yea the Dr. makes a great point. in a nutshell klipsch needs to develop there own e-commerce system like a KlipschDirect rather than simply rely on the dealers for it. then klipsch can market all their speakers to the areas not covered or to where the dealers don't get w/ the times. a good case study might be Compaq Computer vs. Dell, given that computers are more of a commodity but on the other hand e-commerce sales growth is still in it's infancy. great speaks though

oh & now I realize the rsw has that back (I think) radiator which means like w/ a rear port u need to place it about 8 in. out from the back wall. i don't have the space for that for now. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

dman & steve, yea those both sound/look like great subs but i'm sunk w/ this dealer now & all they have are klipsch, vel & definitive & some mac sub the size of a coffee table. 1 thing that takes the new rsw subs out of the running for me is that passive radiator. subs/speaks w/ radiators or ports need to be placed about 8 in out from the wall from what I hear, unless the radiator is on the side which I don't believe is the case w/ the rsw. & w/ my space limits I need to push the sub right up against the wall. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

that's what i'm thinking/hoping :} her trade-in policy seems to change daily. a lot of it rides on the dealer. in this case she makes some more $, but i have a feeling the rsw would cost ME. anxious to hear how that rsw sounds though. wish i would have known in early dec when I got the Vel. we'll see. oh & rw, maybe you've already explored www.audioreview.com om the hgs-18, but there are some real +s there on the 18,12, &15. 1 guy says the 18 is very musical & makes a good point like all subs are slower than a tweeter anyway. i think the most musical subs are tight w/ little overhang. & the room positioning probably is a greater factor for musicality than the sub itself (as to the standing waves & such).

thanks for the input spider & rw, but i don't want to spend that many extra $ (for now anyway i paid $1850 to the dealer for the 15 & like rw said the 18 would marginally be better, & cheaper than just the 2 12s. curious though, you'd have to run the 3 subs at once though right. or are u talking an a/b switch. i'm kind of a believer in keeping subs matched & i don't have the space for 2 subs unless i stacked them anyway (by stereo subs i take it u mean 1 by each main speak though the sub outs are mono). anyway thanks again spider, but my situation w/ the trade & space allows me to really choose only between keeping the 15 or getting the 18 for another $400. a remote possibility would be waiting for the rsw-15 but that's not til at least may. be nice if i could hear an HGS-18, but for here I was hoping there were some 18 owners out there (I know i've seen a few). & thanks for the db figures rw. rock on. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!