vindeville

Obama, politicians and government facilities are protected by guns.....But not our kids....which are more valuable???maybe the government agencies should set an example and give up their guns. Same liberal thinkers that hate guns want legal drugs....Our president even pardons drug dealers cause they are non violent offenders....really???? how many die from drugs and violence related to drugs??(my sister was one). A baby has a heart beat and its legal to kill that baby and even use its parts for research????even in government funded organizations that you and I pay for. How about government funded armed security in our schools for a start. This way the nut jobs aren't just going to slaughter the innocent and unprotected. Ill be down with my taxes funding that. This will create some jobs to boot. Crazy, angry people are only emboldened by weakness both socially and politically...they will never go away and your in fantasy land if you think they will. Bad guys will always get guns, will always do bad things. We cannot undo guns thus its important for good people to have them to keep balance. I do not own one gun but probably should and likely will in the near future. If our Government and citizens cannot be consistent among the many things that cost lives in our country the lets not carry on so every time something bad happens here. Lets ban cars, motorcycles, hunting, NASCAR, football...anything thats risky wrap ourselves in bubble wrap and hope for the best. Lets get strict on punishments for violent crimes and uphold the laws already in place first and foremost. We gotta start there it seems to me.

I posted an exploded view of this fine midrange driver in another subject thread but wanted to share further for those interested. Diaphragm looks to be about 5" in diameter based on known overall size of driver. A composite material that is cone shaped. This is the coax version but gives us the overall design idea.

Crites woofers are modeled after the square mag k33 I believe.

This is version with built in tweet. No measurement but comparison to housing shows about 5" would say.

The B&C plays to 400hz no problem. I find it outstanding. I have a drawing of this driver that shows its cone shaped composite diaphragm is about 5" diameter I think. Ill dig it out of my folder n post if I can.

Great stuff zako. Were there many other tweeters or mids being considered then? What was available? I don't really think im a jackass, I was just telling that fella what I think he wanted go hear. Im more of an elephant actually.

So you have a non/klipschorn K get a life. Sorry you needed to tweek a mongrel 41 year old bass bin...........what did you start with.? I started with a great sounding pair of stock Klipschorns and made them much better to my ears. But you got me pegged you scamp....Im just a jackass with no life...you win, no need for you to post any further on the matter id say.Thanks

They are klipschorns. I added Volti VTK crossovers, I built the midrange horns. They are made from Edgar 300hz tractrix horn plans. I loaded these horns with B&C dcm 50 midrange drivers. I put Crites cast frame woofers in them, the tweeters are PRV polyimide that I think are excellent. I liked the burled maple front but the edges were rough so I bound them with oak veneer. I still have all the stock parts as well.

Khorn bin is definitely ridged and heavy. I was thinking more of a deadening effect that may smooth our 200hz range where there is a peak. Thought bass might tighten up a bit as well. My room isn't bad, 18x14 but yea, i'd like to have a bigger room. Just always looking at playing with something else to wring more out. I guess I just have a fascination with this stuff more than anything.

Interesting, I have wondered if anyone has ever tried sand loading the top of the khorn bass bin. The top fold cavity in mine seams completely sealed. I have looked this over inside and out and cannot see any opening into another section of the horn. I have thought what if a 2" hole was drilled in on the top and sand or lead shot poured into this area? could do the bottom to. Edgar discussed improvements with sand loading on top of bass bins. Anyone ever tried this or have thoughts. Is there any place material could leak out if this was done?

Wvu80 I stand correct. Guess I'm thinking of more traditional hard core rap. This video has melody and a positive message I think. It also has singing and a bit of instrumentation though. But I will say I may have been too broad in my previous post. It would still never touch the tray in my CD player lol.

I would also tell people that rap is "not music," but I use that phrase tongue-in-cheek, not literally. It is more accurate, again speaking in general terms, that rap is not good music. I know, who am I to define "good?" That is a valid point. Again in general, rap is repetitious, monotone, has no instrumentation dynamics, no vocal dynamics, and requires almost zero musical talent to make. Anyone can play quarter notes. But to counter my own argument, have you ever seen the number of hits that rap songs get on Youtube videos? It's in the millions, and you can find much more "musical" songs which only get to tens of thousands of views. Music is where you find it, and is in the ear of the listener. This is similar my thinking on rap as well. I said earlier that straight rap has no melody which is a key element that make music music. Most generally the only time you hear a melody in rap is when a "sample" of a traditionally structured song is inserted. Those in particular strike me as a perfect side by side example of music vs rhythmic spoken word ( monotone with no pitch changes). Not my cup of tea but if you like it you like it. As far as popularity goes there are many people and things that are popular in this country that have no merit to me. yeah booooy! uh ... uh... uh.....

I have many recordings that don't technically sound "great" but are still great recordings that capture something special. Even those though must have a degree of sound quality that in some way is engaging. Just can't listen to anything that has no redeeming sound qualities no matter the genre. Love J Geils but never listen cause recordings suck to me. chili peppers are unlistenable to me but songs are good. I find most any Blues recording totally engaging. Its my favorite kind of music but I can't listen to very old thin brittle sounding stuff, those are more like historical statements than anything worth hearing. Overly slick recording usually fall short for me too. I'm overstating but point is there are a lot of variables for us all I think the make a recording good. In my opinion Rap has no melody and is not music. Its mostly vulgar, posturing spoken word. A song with a rap within it does work out sometimes though I think. Just my opinion.

Modified the reflectors as pictured. Shortened and 45d to match top n bottom of horn shape. Measured 6" down at tip of wedge n cut angle back from that. I won't try to describe what I hear any further but I like the version. I like where I'm at with this. Hope someone else gives a try and reports. Been fun messing with this. Only need to do a couple of small holes in the tail board to pass screws through. Easily undone if wanted as well of course. I drew a center line on back of reflector and lined up peeking through holes that are also centered. Sorry pics aren't great.

I have a set of those midrange horns on top of JBL 4560 bins, Nice sounding horn, they are made of poly foam and the K-55 screws right on if a fella wanted to. Those look like a nice set, bet they sound really nice. Kinda Corscalaey aint they.

dtel, I saw Jimmy Vaughn in a smallish venue over this past winter...Lou Ann Barton was with him. What a great show. When I got home I listened to several cds covering much of the material they did at the concert. You are correct that it cant be the same in your home but I was extremely happy with the comparison none the less. We are lucky that as humans our audio recall abilities are not wonderful in many ways as well I think. I can be tricked pretty consistently into really enjoying a recording as if I were there on my system and that's really the whole point and the fun in it all.

how about being an "audio enthusiast" That covers it all I think If I drill down I am a music lover with an obsession with loudspeakers. I buy and listen to a ton of music but it must sound convincing for me to fall in and really enjoy. A great recording I cant stop listening to lately is " Junior Wells live at Theresa's". Not a technically great recording but man o man I am there in that club when I listen. Without the mighty Klipschorns or some other great horn system I don't think it would be the same. It all goes hand in hand right? I'll bet this kinda describes or rings true with many here on this forum.

Interesting insight Zako. Thanks. I am planning on beefing up the woofer door as well and its good to hear it may be worth while based on anothers experience.

I forgot to mention i was also able to raise the level on my mids 3db yesterday for better balance after the tail board change.

Spezjag I added corner reflectors in my lascalas when I had them but I did not hear a change then if I remember correctly. I have read that those harsh corners create "bubbles" in those areas that effect flow of sound. Is say add them as its not difficult and certainly won't hurt. Thanks

I wish I had the means to measure things but I do not. I listened to a lot of different material all day yesterday. I did not try a different shaped reflector as I felt I needed listen more first. I always had a small amount of damping material added to the woofer chamber in my horns. I added some more behind the driver because I felt the peakiness may be related to this. It did improve things and remove a degree of mid bass exaggeration. Overall to sum up overall bass is punchier, louder and less tubby but parts in bass lines are peaky on some material. Vocals, piano, guitar sound cleaner and more accurate to me. Enough of what I hear, I do not know what transpired 50 years ago at Klipsh and I have great respect for Paul. I am sure he tested and tried things relentlessly. Somehow the poor k400 midrange horn survived for many years untouched so I'm gonna say some things were compromised for whatever reason. That is a bad sounding horn no matter who says its not. My home built 300hz tractrix with b&c dcm50 drivers are light years better. As brilliant as Paul was khorns are flawed as built but wonderful even with those flaws and compromises. Bring them to the next level and listen to live musicians in your home, they are that good in my opinion. Lastly I certainly understand standing waves in my room and have them... Not my first rodeo. And I have listened with mids n tweets unhooked for several reasons. Also what I think is a significant difference in sound may me nothing to someone else, although I feel this added reflector would be clearly audible to most. If its a fail or not is needs to be determined yet for me. I think not though. I appreciate the feedback and sharing this with the people here that care to read this with interest. zako yes, maybe stiffen the tail board has something to do with it. I don't know.

I'll add im not saying i just thought this up. A Huygen reflector in this area has been discussed here before but I have never read where anyone had tried it. I know it was present in older khorns prior to a driver change at some point.

From what I understand contours and shapes in a bass horn matter. All I can say is what I've done changed the sound in some ways in my room that I've tried to describe because I think it was interesting.My wife also hears a significant change and dislikes it. It may have changed reflections back into that section of the horn which is what my thoughts were to begin with. Maybe this changes resistance in the horn. John, your notch filter is needed more than ever with this change I would guess.also i have the Crites cast woofers in these with very good sealing to the corners and very solid corners by the way. ZAKO I understand your point of view and thank you.

Plan on making some shallower reflectors this weekend and will share impressions after some listening.

No, I don't believe im imagining things but thanks Zako for your input.