Fortissimo

Folks, In a few short months, I will be buying a new house. Ideally, I will have a set of klipschorns as my 2-channel system. There is an off chance that if there is a much better real estate deal, I might compromise with a set of la scalas. This would be my 1st set of all-horn klipsch. But to the main point. I have read that despite the ultra-high efficiency of the klipschorn, that single-digit watts really don't optimize the dynamic capabilities and bass. I'd rather go with at least a 20-50 watt 300b pushpull or a single ended solid state (like Monarchy audio) rather than a set. I say this because I saw a spiral plot of the klipschorns impedence curve. And it's actually pretty complex. I know the math that 1 watt= 104db, 2 watts = 107 db 4 watts =110db. 8= 113db. That falls short of the klipschorns peak ability. I calculate no less than 32 watts to do the job. Unless... Can anyone tell me for sure that 4-9 watts of set will *really* allow a klipschorn to do everything it's capable of, or is the speaker actually more demanding than that with headroom? And if so, does that mean I am in for $5-6K for an Art Audio or Dehavilland set just to make it work? I have no prerequisite of tube or solid state. But, whichever is going to do the job- I do not want any glare, harshness or lack of low bass to handicap the sound. I want headroom enough to deliver full orchestral slam without running out of steam. Any amp/preamp suggestions of any kind (including integrated) appreciated. Side notes: sets sound wonderful, but again, I am not hard-core triode and "1st clean watt." I have heard exceptional solid state that I could live with as well.

It's hit and miss, but there is a Bay Area shop that gets classic Klipsch in from time to time. They had a set of cornwalls not too long ago they sold for $900. They also have had la scalas. www.thesoundwell.com

This is a huge can o' worms. There are arguments for and against tubes that go on for days. I have heard every possible angle on that issue from both ss and tube camps. The only way to know is to listen and decide. I have owned both, and both sound good. Then, there is always the use of just a tube pre amp, or perhaps a tube cd player like jolida or ah tjoeb 4000.

A good source for a killer sub for little money: Parts express. The 15" dayton titanic III has a lot of power very deep. It would blend well with the heresy's.

It's probably just you. They are very popular audiophile speaker companies. They have been around for decades. There are probably 200-300 high end brands you haven't heard of in that case. Like Avalon, Wilson, Alon, duntech, avante-garde, and so on.... Even "sound and vision" magazine mentions them.

I have promedias and there is *nothing* else on the market I want. They just rock.

Audio magazine did a review of the klipschorn in the mid 80's as well. There was a page that plotted the complex impedence curve. The review was mostly favorable, citing dynamics and realism despite some anomalies. Klipsch and I go back into the mid 80's as well. And the "honk" or other anomalies are 98% of the time set up and electronics. Horns like space and they reveal poor electronics...period. klipsch will never be accepted by the vandersteen/magnepan or boutique audiophile crowd. They like a specific kind of sound. They wax poetic about the transparency and articulate detail. But they gloss over compression, lack of impact, realism and so on. Else, it's as if to say that standard dynamic or planar speakers can't be made to sound bad. I beg to differ there...

What about a mug of hot chocolate wrapped in a warm blanket in front of a roaring fireplace? ..wait...maybe that's more Vandersteen than Mac...

I find most amplification isn't the problem. I mean, with Klipsch a competant 50 watt solid state amp will do wonders. The source is just as important or more so. I could take an amp that is considered bright (B&K maybe?) but use a tube preamp or tube cd player and it will smooth out. I never considered Rotel harsh anyway.

Actually no it isn't for the gist of my statement. Using an H II with a sub or an HIII with a sub will balance the sound out. I didn't mean II vs III. Well, like magnepan, the smoothing down/softening of pianissimo to forte passages. The kapton or whatever plastic diaphragm that magnepan currently uses sounds like a polite, transparent version of reality. As a pro drummer, magnepans do not sound like drums...or anything close. They lack the immediacy and impact. Maggies don't move much air. A klipschorn, for example will sound very close to a real tympani or drumkit, vs a maggie, which sounds like a drumkit behind a carpet. Like low impact aerobics. The attack just isn't there. Nice, and polite. Are you suggesting the magnepan 1.6 can reproduce full orchestral slam on a level equal to the big klipsch?

The heresy or rb5 would be mated with a sub for me. The heresy II/III blend well and balance out. I prefer my forte II to *any* reference. They are balanced, smooth and fullrange so they don't need a sub. I find that the FII are less compressed and distorted than the reference. My picks: Budget: Kg4 Middle: Forte II Mid high: Chrorus II or Cornwall III High: Klipschhorn None of the above are obnoxious, compressed, distorted or need a sub. The rb5 will work better in tighter spaces than a heresy will. And they do have more placement options. Maggies are nice, they are a totally different means of presentation. Compared to many Klipsch however, the maggies sound very compressed and unexciting to me.

Here is my .02 on the reference: (A rb5 success story) A friend of mine got some rb5's. He had a nice little tube amp and a sub to go with it. Modestly priced system. I thought it sounded *very* realistic. One day, he took off the klipsch logos off and brought them to his local high end boutique. I sat back and watched. The shop owner had no idea what they were (as it was the year they were introduced) The owner commented: "Nice looking cherry finish...what are they?" My buddy started the gag: "Oh these are new high end european speakers I brought back this year." So, the speakers were set up next to some $1800 a pair, $2,800 a pair and $3,000 a pair two ways. The amp used was a Manley stingray. The source: a simple Rega planet. I thought the klipsch sounded much more dynamic and realistic (uncompressed) than the other speakers. The shop owner goes. "Wow, what did you pay for those? They are amazing! They sound better than the speakers I am selling here!" My buddy goes.. well first, they are horn speakers. Shop owner: "Ohh, those must be Italian Zingali's...! Those are supposed to have amazing detail!" My Buddy: "Umm... no. They are the new Klipsch Rb-5." "What?!? Klipsch???" I told the guy not to feel like his "audiophile reputation" is ruined. They really do sound this good. Don't apologize for liking them. I told him I wish *ALL* buyers could have a blind test of speakers like this. The "snob factor" would be put to the test. And I liked the fact the RB5's didn't just hold thier own or do ok, they (IMO) sounded livelier and more exciting on all material than the spendy boutique brands. Klipsch are all about setup, front end and open-mindedness. Not wrongly dismissing them offhand as midfi or shouty. "Listen without pedjudice"

Before this gets real negative, I digress. 1) The new reference klipsch are outstanding. 2) I prefer many of the heritage type klipsch, due to the separate horn midrange and tweeter. Not to mention displacement. 3) There is nothing wrong with preferring the new. Back to our regularly scheduled program...

I'd still buy used heresy's over rb5's. No question.

Mac never blew me away, but then again, it never really did me wrong either. I can't call them the best, but they are musical and never harsh to be sure. As a footnote, mac tube gear is coveted much more than the solid state is.

Fish, Sorry, you are mistaken. It has everything to do with it. It's the physics behind the speaker. It's also the design of the speaker. You are seriously confusing the issue. That's an innacurate interpolation and comparision. JBL's are not nearly as efficient, and if you are referring to the northridge type speakers, they aren't an impressive design. That's apples to oranges anyway. I agree the rb5's sound better than a lot of speakers out there. That in including high end boutique speakers costing many times as much. Again, comparing apples to apples, the rb5's are no match for the heresy's. The heresy's displace more air. They are more powerful and immediate as well. Compare klipsch horn design speakers to klipsch horn design speakers. Compare the reference rb-5 to rf 7's and so on. Driver design, cabinet size, separate horn mid and tweet all play into the differences. You should just state directly what you think. It seems to me you are alluding to liking the reference better. Feel free to say so. But to try to counter by an interpolative comparision of different brands and non horn designs isn't the right way to argue. That is, unless you believe that the rb5 or rf7 somehow match a cornwall? It's only cabinet and driver size right?

The rb 5 are no slouch with dynamics or punch. They are really nice. However, The heresy has separate mid and tweet horn. They have a larger cabinet with a larger woofer. They can move more air than the rb-5's. The heresy's sound more open to me, and dynamic. (less compressed) Both speakers (IMO) benefit from mating to a sub. If given the choice, heresy's...hands down.

Well...PWK was always a "Oh B.S." type guy when it came to technologies other than Klipsch or esoterica. This might be a holdover from that philosophy. I may not spring for brand new la Scalas if it comes down to purchasing them instead of corner horns. There are so many on the used market, and I'd have no problem with the originals. Do the now ones use oil caps or (my guess) poly?

Excellent! It's always impressive when a system that is mostly technology dating back to the 1940's sounds so good. I have always maintained that the heresy's with a sub are a giant-killing fullrange system. Especially sweet with firebottles...!

Here is an "IMO" post as it relates to klipsch past vs present. The heritage line has a separate horn midrange. IMO, the reference and synergy series cannot compete. Here is my personal list of Klipsch gems: Least money: KG-4's. Great little speakers, bang for the buck. Heresy: Side by side with the reference, the heresey sounds more open to me. Coupled with a sub, a full range system that just slays giants. Forte/ Forte II: Owning both, I prefer the II, YMMV. Both are a nearly flawless speaker design. They are the right balance for full range sound. Nice and controlled; like a heresy with more bottom extension. Cornwall: IMO, "looser" than forte, they need a big room. Big sound. They do reproduce into the 20hz (bottom octave) range cleanly. Chorus/II: I like the CII because it's vented via passive radiator. Big, big sound. La scala/belle: IMO, they need a sub. I just don't like them without bottom augmentation. They sound to me like they roll off about 60hz. But with a sub, if you have heard them they are monsters. Klipschorn: Full range, can live without a sub. But they need a big room with corners. The output is extremely realistic sounding, close to live. A great set of speakers for a totally uncompressed body-pounding immediacy and impact. IMO, all of the above are superior to modern klipsch reference and synergy. Once you remove that horn mid, and try to combine it into one drive, and shrink the cabinet you are asking to compromise on dynamics. The reference are terrific, but have mediocre capabilities vs the heritage line (To include the new versions with tractrix) YMMV, but that's basically my opinion.

Right now, it's a 7.1 THX receiver. I also have a "experimental" ss amp with a passive control. I have heavily modified the amp, and a cd player that was based on a rotel chassis. It was reclocked, new dacs, recapped with black gate caps and bypass caps, shielded and so on. I am avoiding any and all references to the word "Audiophile" because I do not like the stigma or connotations. I prefer "audio/HT enthusiast" or "music lover." I am very "Catholic" about audio. There is so much of it I like, and I refuse to look down my nose at anyones setup. After I get settled (September) I'd like a pushpull 300b/ . Possibly a kit type. I know that sounds evil to the set crowd, but I don't feel that I am losing anything that bad. I prefer to have something in the 24-50 watt range vs just 4-9 watts. I just like that extra oomph. I am also considering a Dynaco St-70 or the like. But I am getting ahead of myself. My "Klipsch" experiance will expand three ways: Bedroom Kg4 Two channel: Probably klipschorns, or else la scalas. Multi channel: Forte II + synergy. Time, and my real estate agent will tell.

This is my first post. Well, it's been a long while. My first Klipsch were a 1988 set of Forte's. I had them for some time, but had to move into a small place and (still kicking myself) ended up selling them. I listened to the new reference series klipsch and while the do a lot of things I like, I feel they were missing something that the heritage line had. Namely, a separate horn midrange. The tractrics are terrific, and I do like that they can cover the mid to 20khz band, but for various reasons, I prefer a separate driver for mid and tweet. I found a set of *mint* 1996 Forte II's for $500 and snagged them immediately. Man... what I have been missing! The realism and uncompressed dynamics are just amazing. I have a 15" DIY powered sub crossed over at 30hz as well. The sub really isnt necessary for most material. On some movies and classical material the sub does wake up and fill in the bottom end. I have ordered some synergy bookshelves and center channel to go along. The reason is, they wen't quite as "hard" sounding as the titanium reference in places. Not to mention cost per dollar is excellent. My ultimate goal is to buy a house this year, and maybe get some cornerhorns for my main system. Otherwise, a set of la scalas with the sub will do. I want a set of original KG4's for the bedroom. The bottom line here is, is that I like the Forte II better than my original forte, and definately more than the new lines of Klipsch. They are clean, dynamic, full range, and very controlled sounding. I mean that in a good way. No flab to the bass at all. I am really happy with these speakers. Maybe this sounds crude, but I enjoy these more than most audiophile boutique speakers. I feel no temptation to go anywhere except Klipsch.