Roc Rinaldi

How much is the fathom f112 from JL Audio? I'm weakening.

Ummmm... no. Not cassettes, sorry. Your attachment to them (and reasons why) is laudable, but I'd be interested to see one specification where a high quality cassette will outperform a high quality LP. Ben..it is my understanding that records are made with RIAA frequency compression so that the needle doen't have trouble tracking or jumping in and out of the record groove. Audio cassettes do not use frequency compression therefore they can reproduce a greater range of frequencies than records. Greater frequency range translates into higher high fidelity. Is this correct? Help out guys.

Well.............I'm confused and I'm having fun. Getting back to the subject. I guess that the answer is "two subs could be better than one--it depends". Now Colter has me thinking a bit differently. Do I place the two subs side-by-side; or stacked (how do you do this if the larger sub is Dr. HSU's VTF-3 HO Turbo ?[ http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-ho-turbo.html ]); or do I place the smaller sub in the back of the room which might help out on movie special effects? How long can a sub line feed be before the signal gets weak? ....what's a poor boy to do? Please keep in mind that my main listening is stereo old rock music and only secondarily to movies.

Thanks Coytee. I appreciate your comment. I guess that I am just an old silly romantic at heart. Wasn't so much romantic when I was younger but I have learned to appreciate the sentiments of romance. My wife seems to like it. She gets love tapes on her birthday, christmas, our anniversary, on Wednesdays or any day. She has been getting them for years and values them greatly. Sometimes they come with cards and flowers. ....hey Valentine's day is coming........what an idea I have.

Please don't ship them. You will be sorry.

Thank you Carl & mas. I really am listening to your advice. If you dedicate a different frequency range to each sub, sometimes won't onoly one sub be working? I only wanted to keep the velodyne in order to achieve even more bass but I don't want boomy. I want clarity, low or no distortion, and at the proper times, lots of vibrating bass. (led zeppelin you know) Thanks again.

Suspended from the ceiling???.............................are you crazy? My wife would kill me before I got the chains hung. Does your answer indicate that there are subs out there that could and would blow out a candle? l like side-by-side closely packed acting like one larger unit. I think this translates to "more bass" doesn't it?

I have and still use audio cassette tapes that I made in the 1960s. They work fine and are not quite as fragile as everyone is saying. Occasionally one will jam. Some I can fix, some I can't. I have about 800 of these tapes. Maybe one or two have actually just broken as opposed to getting jammed but it has been just one or two over all these years. Audio tapes produce a higher fidelity sound than records. Maybe not quite as good as CDs but to me very acceptable for the technology involved. After all they have been around for half a century. I'm not ready to give them up just yet. I spend a tremendous amount of time creating them one song at a time. They have special meaning since they are "love tapes" I made for my wife. All romantic music. Each tape has a name. There is a duplicate of each tape so that when I leave for work in the morning my wife and I both start up the same tape. While I am driving I know that Janet and I are listening to the same love tape music at the same time. We coordinate my trip home each day and do the same thing.

OK here's my two cents. I have owned 2 new KG-4s bought in 1989. I liked the sound so much that 5 months later I added two new Forte IIs and moved the KG-4s to the rear, elevated 2 feet. The four speakers plus a sub have been giving me really full stereo sound ever since. In 2004 I added a McIntosh Integrated amp. with 200wpc. Boy did the sound get real clear and might I add "LOUD". So I feel good about both model Klipschs. Now I am upgrading to McIntosh power 7.1 and planning to move the KG-4s to the sides while adding 3 more Forte IIs if I can find mint condition walnut ones. That will give me 5 Forte IIs and 2 KG-4s. The MAC power will continue at 200wpc x 7 plus a new Dr. HSU HO Turbo sub giving me 2 subs. This is the absolute limit my wife will tolerate. "No mas" she says. "House vibtates too much" she says. "Money all gone" she says. Oh well. This system is pretty much approaching my dream system anyway. I have been a music listener for about 48 years and it is only in 1989 that I began trying to fulfill my audio dreams while I am still alive. It isn't as much fun when you are dead. .......and what am I saving my money for anyway? Alright, maybe this was three cents worth. Sorry.

Thank you hemihorn and ear for your input. The article on sub-woofer placements is helpful to me. I have about 4,000 cu. ft. in my room (22 x 24 x 7.6). I only have room for the two subs. I guess I'll have to experiment when the second one arrives. My current decision is whether or not to buy the second sub. It generally sounds like it would be a good move. Either I'll just use the new sub (the Dr.) or use both of them. I'll have to try side-by-side and then separately located to determine which sounds best. I'm stopping at 2 subs. I have a life outside of my musical interests. What I want to know is "Are there any subs out there that can blow out a candle placed 6" in front of the woofer?" This capability would be quite impressive to show to friends.

Wow. You guys are pretty good. This is sort of spinning out of control. All of the comments are good food for thought. Thank you so much. The Dr. HSU that I am considering is the big one. (Why not. I'm only getting older) So I will be getting a sub that is considerably larger than the one I already have. (130wpc vs. 500 wpc) Here is the one http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-ho-turbo.html If I get it (it's about $1100) I will first hook it up by itself in my best corner. Then listen a while. Then I can start playing around by adding the Velodyne next to the Dr. and listen. Maybe I could squeeze the Velodyne into another spot away from the Dr. and listen. You know how it goes. I just wanted to check and see if there was a consensus on dissimilar subs, as to sitting them side-by-side vs. spreading them around. I don't know very much about sound wave action and synergy relative to this. The comments have been very helpful. Any other thoughts, please add.

No. No Forte IIs yet. I just checked craigslist and couldn't find any, but thanks for asking. I mainly am checking eBay. My search is for 4 (I only need 3) Klipsch Forte II's wanlut, excellent cabinet, grill and sound condition, within about 300-350 miles of Baltimore, Maryland. I will pick-up so that I can see and hear them first. I have my new amp. and A/V controller ordered. Due in early Feb. I am working diligently on my wiring and furniture/equipment relocations. I bought two really nice audio cabinets with three smoked glass levels. The top level holds over 150 lbs. That is where I will place my new stuff. The two cabinets together can hold 12 components. My big worry is finding the right Forte IIs for my center and rears. I am picky. Don't like used, not in audio or women. But in this case to get Forte IIs to match what I have I will have to buy used. Now if only the 4 Forte IIs would show up on eBay. I am willing to pay a fair price, so once I find them it should be a quick sale. Any one out there got any Forte IIs as described?

I really appreciate the input. I don't know anything about this so the various comments are helpful. It's just that I already have a sub but, of course, I want more low sound. So I am considering Dr. HSU. (...we refer to him as Dr. HSU because he has a doctorate from MIT and his last name is HSU [ pronounced shoe ] and it's more fun than referring to HSU Research, the company. Back to my original question. ...No definitive answer seems apparent from the comments. I guess this is another of those "buy the new sub and listen to it as a replacement by itself. Then add the old sub back into the mix located side-by-side and listen again. My room is quite full so I don't have the option of placing the old sub anywhere but side by side, unfortunately.

I have a Velodyne 12" front firing sub. I am pretty sure I want to get a Dr. HSU 12" sub side firing. Rather than retire the Velodyne I was thinking of using both. Dr. HSU recommends putting them side-by-side. Is this better than locating them in different parts of the room?

Life's tough.

Hi dtel & oldtimer, old - I will let you know if I wind up with an extra forte II, which I might. It would be great if you are really serious about buying one from me but let's not get ahead of ourselves. I still got some searchin' to do. You do know that I live over 1000 miles away? dtel - I'm so excited. I've already got my order in for an MC207 http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/data/brochures/MC207.pdf & http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=1&id=14&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1096&product=MC207 and an MX120 which doesn't start shipping until February 1. It is brand new. It is basically the MX119 http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/data/brochures/MX119.pdf & http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=1&id=15&cat=Audio%2FVideo+Control+Centers&prodid=1099&product=MX119 with additional capabilities including 3 HDMI connections and one of the strongest video upconverting processes I have come acroos, all the way up to and including 1080p. The McIntosh switches are of extremely high quality built to last for a lifetime. The literature on the MX120 isn't available yet. ...no, the hard part is finding acceptable used speakers. It is the one part of my plan for which I do not have control. And that makes me very nervous. I do want to find good ones as my four speakers are in the same condition as when I unpacked them in 1989 & 1990. Not a scratch to be found. The ones that I find have to be IIs, oiled walnut, fairly priced (about $500 - $700), in excellent condition and somewhere along the mid-Atlantic coast. Not too much to ask, ya think? BTW "d" - exactly what is "south miss"? Is there really a place called south miss? Just wondering.

REPLY to oldtimer & Frzninvt, I pretty much agree with both of you. Thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts on my plans. I feel that you are both somewhat knowledgeable and sincere in the help you are trying to give to me. The Forte IIs I'm sure represented some improvements over the Is, like the mid-horn change and the 15" passive which I also believe needs to be the next size larger than the powered woof of 12". Now Mike Colter of Klipsch actually wouldn't answer my question as to what the sonic improvements were when they went from Is to IIs, but obviously Klipsch believed that they were making improvements otherwise why change? I doubt if it was for cost considerations. oldtimer, you are correct that the boominess is more a matter of room and speaker placement than anything else. My 2 Forte IIs are angled inward about 30 degrees, speaker corner closest to the back wall is about 8" away and three feet from the side wall. No overboominess that I can tell. In fact with my sub off I don't get enough bass at all for rock 'n roll. To get more bass from them you probably need to have them in corners parallel to the back wall and maybe a foot out. I need mine angled so the sub fills in nicely. You are right. It IS about speaker matching and nothing matches better than the same speaker, plus it gives you a full range speaker in the center which can't hurt for movies and music and it looks good. My new A/V controller has modes that send both the L & R stereo signals to the center, so in my opinion a full range speaker is needed there. Frzninvt, your story is quite interesting. I started with a pair of new KG-4s in 1988 and was so impressed that in 1990 I purchased a pair of new Forte IIs. I moved the KG-4s to the rear and hooked them in parallel to give me 3.8 ohms (forte II [8 ohms]; KG-4 [6 ohms]). Now I am going to add the third forte II for center, move the KG-4s to the sides elevated about two feet and add the fourth & fifth forte IIs elevated 2 feet, for the rear giving me 7.1 sound. oh yea I'm also going to add a second sub from Dr. HSU. Cerwin Vega, Polk & JBL are OK brands. What do you think? Just don't get me started on Bose. Dirty, crumby, rotten company out to hood wink the entire customer base. Stay as far away from Bose as you can. What stories I could tell you. Anyway, thanks to both of you. Please add any further comments that you thing would help. My new 7.1 amp. has been ordered so I need to get my 3 forte IIs or I'll only be able to listen to 4.1 which doesn't even exist. I'll check back later for further comments. Anyone else have anything to add??

Thanks Frninvt, This is very interesting. I had called this person and was actually planning to drive 415 miles from Baltimore to Mass. this weekend to buy them at $600. When I called him back he said that someone had alerted him to the fact that they were fortes. I just naturally thought that the IIs would be better sounding but maybe not. Do you have any actual listening experiences comparing Fortes to Forte IIs? Do you think they both sound about the same? They are walnut and in excellent shape as far as I can tell. Keep looking please.

I love FORTE IIs so I need more of them. Here is what I require. Looking for 3 FORTE IIs in oiled walnut, but I will buy up to 4 in order to get three. They must be in excellent condition located in the mid-Atlantic states so that I can go get them. Willing to pay a fair price for mint speakers. Must be FORTE IIs. Cash on delivery. Contact me through a "private message" or at rrinaldi@jhsph.edu. Please help.

Thanks again dtel. Please please let me know if you know of any excellent condition Walnut or black FORTE IIs for sale within 200 miles of Baltimore, MD. ....your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated.

One Forte ll should be good, I don't know about the parallel thing though. Why not either sell off the extra Forte ll, or even better, look for a couple more pair and sell off the Kg-4's. Or one more pair of Forte ll's for rears and use the Kg-4's for side surrounds. I use 4 Forte ll's for L / C / R and rear Center and original Forte's for L / R rear for 6.1. You will not need 2 of them for a center, you will see / hear ! I can't do 7.1 because of a wood burning heater on one side . What about 6.1 until something is available in 7.1, and you find another pair to match. Just ideas, but you can see where i'm going........If you have the room why settle for less than a perfect match, If you use the Kg's you will later want to change them to Forte ll's anyway, I would bet. All IMHO ! Thankyou. thankyou. Do you really think the KG-4s will be OK as side surrounds? I believe THX requires bi-pole/di-pole and not directional speakers for the surround channels. However, I listen mostly to stereo music and only occasionally will I be watching movies. When I do, half of them will be music concert performances. BTW, when will there be any 7.1 material available? I haven't found any yet. I hate "used", but it looks like I will be trying to find used FORTE IIs for center and rear and move the KG-4s to the sides elevated on maybe 20-25" stands slightly tilted upward. I will only use 1 FORTE II for the center and will probably have a FORTE II left over for sale I guess. **** Anyone on the mid-east coast willing to sell 1,2,3, or 4 Walnut FORTE IIs please contact me. I will have to audition them before I buy. ****

Thanks so much!!

Yes, I am going to get a MC207 http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=1&id=14&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1096&product=MC207 & a MX120 (just released). The dealer doesn't have a buyer for my MA6900 but has confirmed a minimum trade-in of $3,000 pending inspection by him.

Thanks to both Gary & Chris. Your comments and time are really appreciated. Uh O....my plan calls to add three more FORTE IIs (center & side surrounds) to the two that I already have. So I guess I would need 5 X-overs. How much are they? What is involved in bypassing the original crossovers? .....and what about my 2 rear KG-4s? Do you think they also need X-overs? Would the KG-4 X-overs be different ones? How much do they cost? Do I get them from you? Any warranty involved? All I can tell you about FORTE II "bass light" is that I listen to such nonsense as Rolling Stones, Led Zeppilin, AC/DC ad nauseum. (sic) My room is 22' X 24' and slightly irregular shaped. Now here might be where the problem is. I started with Klipschs by buying 2 KG-4s as my stereo speakers. Well, of course, I loved the sound so much that a couple of years later I added 2 FORTE IIs to be my main stereo speakers and moved the KG-4s to the rear set on end tables. Since, at the time, I was strictly a stereo nut, I wired the front left and the rear left speakers in parallel giving me 3.something ohms. (FORTE II = 8ohms; KG-4 = 6ohms) I did the same for the right channel. All 4 speakers are sitting on the long walls in the room. They are all about 4-6" away from the wall angled toward the center of the room in general. I did worry about intersection points so I made sure that the front and rear speakers were aimed differently so that the front two intersected at a different point than the rear ones. At very loud volumes as I walk around the room it sounds pretty good. My Velodyne sub is 12" 130w sitting in a corner. When I turn the sub off the bass really drops off. So much so that I feel a real loss and must have the sub on. My front speakers are about 13' apart in the center of the 24' wall with the sub in one of the corners. I guess I've introduced a few new factors that might need to be thought about relative to why I don't seem to get much bass from just the FORTE IIs haven't I? Chris & Gary, please advise.

J. Thanks for the info. I am not much of a computer person so bear with me. My thinking on this project continues to evolve. Here is the latest. I am definitely going to add a third FORTE II as my center. Now I am extending that thought to the side surrounds. Why not add two more FORTE IIs for the sides? No speaker matching problems if I do and my new McIntosh amp has the power to drive them all (200wpc X 7) God, I don't know if I want to get into changing the X-overs. I would say that FORTE IIs are bass light and could use more bass. I am going to add a new Dr. HSU 500w HO turbo sub to supplement my existing Velodyne 12" 130w sub. I will set them side by side. Then I will see if I am still bass-poor. If I am then I will consider the popbumper X-overs. I do think you would be impressed with the sound of the FORTE IIs. They are so clear and somewhat "in your face". I live in Baltimore, MD if you would like to hear them. Please keep me in mind if you discover any FORTE IIs for sale that meet my criteria. I am looking for at least two and maybe four FORTE IIs in walnut (darked wood) or less desireable, black or oak (which I would have to paint black). I will check craigslist.org and audiogon.com. Now about my rear I mean rears. I have two KG-4s for rears. Myplan is to use them and see how they sound with the other speakers. If "no go" then I guess I will be looking for yet another set of FORTE IIs. Again no speaker matching problems if I do use more FORTE IIs. Well, what do you think of all this? Please advise.