Ram Sound

Thought some of you might want to see this cover story article that was in Performance magazine's Concert Production Directory that came out fall of 1988. Performance Directory 1988.pdf Performance Directory 1988.pdf Performance Directory 1988.pdf

Update on our gear. I've sold all the gear I own. Another sound company has bought all our KP600 system along with all the sound gear we own. As far as Klipsch, it was 8 stacks of KP600 speakers, 2 KP-456s, 12 KSM-15IIs. With my company approaching our 40th Anniversary, it is a weird feeling realizing we won't own any sound equipment. I guess I'll still be working for a bit, but sub-ing out all gear.

We are located in NW Florida - right below Alabama on Central daylight time.

Another two weeks have gone by and I decided to update my last post. I've almost given up on working a deal on our package KP600. I was hoping to sell the entire package for what I could liquidate pieces for, but that hasn't worked out yet. Time to move toward Plan B. I realize that most people on this forum are not professional sound uses but collectors, and less likely to want or realize the value of all the associated parts. So, if anyone wants KP600 boxes, get in touch. I'll sell ours that are in no need of any repair and ready to go for about what other people have been asking for boxes missing parts, drivers, grills, etc. If you own non working KP600s, you can likely buy mine ready to go for less than the missing correct parts would cost. We also have tons of mint condition Whirlwind EP4 and EP8 cabling, Klipsch wheel trays, complete flying hardware (enough to fly 24 boxes), drivers, and miscellaneous parts. I do not plan on selling our two custom matched KP600EC crossovers as long as I have working KP600s left. They will likely be sold in a large package OR after all our KP600 boxes are gone. Whirlwind cables I'll sell for 1/2 end column dealer cost from Whirwind. New ones could cost 2 to 3 times that. If, after another month, I still have 600s, I'll look into tearing them apart. If anyone needs actual parts, drivers, grill cloth frames, or any other part, let me know. I feel I can sell parts that are in demand for what I'll let the boxes go for. One way or another, these are leaving our shop. I also have Cloud 9 covers for KP600s, and (2) like new, KP682s with Cloud 9 covers. I can be reached at 850-664-6859. Let me know what you're interested in and I'll get price and availability info back to you. I do have possible deals out there that might tie up some pieces, but I should know about those very soon. Money talks and the gear walks.

I'd been in contact with a number of forum members since posting info about our KP600 turnkey system for sale. I am retiring and starting to liquidate. I really hated to tear apart one of the most tricked out KP600 systems ever put together. At this point, my time is becoming more important than money. If there's a chance anyone might be interested, drop me a note at RamSound@me.com. I'll let all of the gear go at WAY less than the value splitting it all up. Every piece is in perfect condition, both mechanically AND physically. You're not likely to find any 600s in better condition, not to mention, totally ready to go in perfect working order. No repairs needed - period. I'll be glad to forward more information and pics. If I haven't worked out something within the next month, I'll start breaking the system apart. I already have a list of people interested in a couple of stacks, but I'd rather sell it all on a super deal. If someone is genuinely interested in having 2 or 4 working stacks. You likely could buy all this gear for less that you'd have to pay to get used ones up and running with all correct parts. With all the gear, spare parts and accessories included, you could sell what you don't want to pay for what you want to keep. Bob

Hey Trey, first time I stopped by looking at the Klipsch forum in quite a while. Don't really do the social network thing, but am interested if Klipsch is showing any more interest in the pro (portable) sound market. I'm still doing shows from time to time, but mostly sub out whatever gear the client wants. I haven't really been using my full KP600 rig as I usually have to sub out a preferred line array and whatever digital console is the flavor of the year. I can say we used only Klipsch speakers for all our concerts and festivals from 1973-2006. Still use the KP600 system, if I can. We went from pre pro La Scalas and Heresys to MCMs/LSIs/HISMs to KP600s/KP456s/KSM-15s. Our last final system still looks like new - all impeccably maintained top to bottom. If you know anyone that might be interested in picking up probably the most tricked out, packaged KP600 rig ever put together, please let me know. It already paid for itself long ago and I'll deal. All flying hardware, Cloud 9 covers, KP600EC crossovers, cabling, efficient amp rack system, custom, panels, etc. I really don't use it enough to keep it anymore. Also, I have tons of spare KP600 parts from labels, grill cloth, nuts, screws, bolts, drivers, and diaphragms to go along with it. I even have all the original boxes and manuals for every piece of racked gear. I have stacks of Klipsch Pro brochures, KP600 manuals, even a full copy of the stress test data on the 600s, pics of the prototypes we tested, etc. Originally I hadn't thought about breaking all the system apart and was trying to see if I could find a buyer for the turnkey KP600 rig. It's a full 8-stack 600 rig (8 KP650HF-A, 8 KP650LF-A, 4 KP680-A, and 2 KP682-A) all with covers, wheel trays, and complete flying rig (all but the chain motors). All amps are Carver PT1250s, all Whirlwind EP cabling, Ram Sound custom fused input panels, etc. You could just plug the output of a new digital console into left and right inputs and you'd have a system capable of providing concert sound for 6,000+ people. I'll even throw in all the AC/Hubble power cabling. Every single piece is in absolute perfect condition. Besides the main house rig, we have 12 KSM-15IIs all in ATA cases that hold 4 each and 2 KP456As that comprised our monitor rig. Any chance Klipsch would like a mint, ready to go, cased up demo rig of something cool from their past? This rig worked with unbelievable national acts through the years and still sounds better than 90% of what you can buy today. Bob McTyeire

Fuse values shown on the schematics in no way indicates best value to use. It only shows exactly how the crossover was shipped from Klipsch (nailed with a 20 amp fuse). They did enclose a suggested value sheet with the pro speakers explaining how to use the fuse protection, if you desire.

After 39 years of using Klipsch speakers in a professional environment (driving the pi#& out of them), it is very cut and dry EXACTLY what's the best AGC fuse to use for protection out of what's available. We have already proven what works and what doesn't. The AGC fuse values available are limited and we've used them all - even 3.5A, if you can find them. I pushed very hard to have the fuse holders on Klipsch Pro speakers and didn't disagree with their decision to leave fusing up to the user. The KP600 series did not have fuse holders on the cabinets. One, they were intended for the highest end professional and two, they were designed to flown in the air, as well as stacked. We designed our own custom EP connector panels (built by Whirlwind who also built the 600 input panels) on the back of our 600 amp rack that have fuse holders for each amp output. Normally, we parallel two stacks and run 4O loads. If we use single stacks, the fuses have to be changed (1/2 value) to protect the 8O loads. Using the best fuse value may require changing in some cases where it would have been ok, but going up eliminates the protection and it's worth it. Doing this for a living, you need to be able to fix things quickly and it has to be working the next show. Fuses cost a whole lot less than drivers and diaphragms, and take an instant to change. We rarely blow any fuses, but carry plenty of all the values we use.

To clarify the fuse issue on Klipsch Pro, I was a huge proponent of fusing all our speaker systems. We tested out prototypes of most all the Klipsch Pro speakers. Klipsch decided to put fuse holders on all their pro input panels which I was very pleased about. BUT, they did not want the hassle of dealing with people blowing fuses, etc., so they shipped ALL of them "nailed". The 20 amp fuse essentially eliminated a protective fuse. They did ship a sheet with recommended fuse values, though. I spent years tweaking Klipsch's formula for getting the right AGC fuse value. The idea is that you want the fuse to blow on a continuous level before the driver, but due to the fuse's time to respond, peak vs. average, etc. it's not an exact science. Here's the concept of AGC fusing we have used for 39 years with Klipsch speakers in actual professional use. With an AGC fuse, you want to fuse at a continuous value that would be less than or equal to 3dB down from the maximum continuous wattage recommended. Exceeding that value likely will result in the driver protecting the fuse. Example: for a 300 watt rated driver, 3dB down would be 150 watts. A 4-amp AGC fuse would be the correct value as a 5-amp fuse would exceed the 150 watts (Ohms law, W = I(squared)R: 4 amp fuse squared = 16 x 8O load = 128 watts; 5amp fuse squared = 25 x 8 = 200 watts). In all of our Klipsch PRO speakers with 15" woofers, we use 4-amp fuses for the low and 1.5-amp fuses for the highs. Most of the 1" or 1.5" drivers in the Klipsch Pro speakers, I consider 30-50 watt drivers for the frequency range they cover. The 1.5 amp fuse would come out to 18 watts for an 8O driver. You can't go to 2 amp (32 watts - too high) and a 1 amp fuse is too small (8 watts). So, in all of our passive network Klipsch boxes (KSM-15s, KP-456s), as well as some extra KP302s and KP320s, we use a 4A low and 1.5A high fuse. Klipsch's recommendations are a little more conservative than ours on some models, but no one probably has more of a practical working record with the speakers than we do. For smaller Kipsch and non pro speakers, the low may need to be a 3A and many of the small single fuse systems need to be 2.5A (or 3). We also fuse all of our KP600 system drivers and have an unbelievable track record on protecting those. That would be a whole different topic.

Yes, the system has been used for Marie AND Donny.

Trey, drop me a note at RamSound@me.com and I'll send you a pdf list of the 600 system and some pics. The house and monitor system packaging is very efficiently designed, similar to the 600 system itself. Very easy to move and set up, efficient and lightweight. Our entire KP600 system is powered by one rack (includes 2 KP600EC) that two people can pick up. The entire 8-stack 600 system can run off of just (2) 30-amp 120V circuits. I've done sound for 8-10K people outdoors and never tripped a breaker. I've even had to physically prove to guest engineers it was all running on just two 120V circuits. Efficient amps, efficient speakers means less weight and AC power. The entire monitor system (12) KSM-15IIs, (2) KP456s also runs off of one double wide rack two people can pick up. It has 12 amps (6x2 ch.), 10 Klark-Teknik EQs, 8 Klark-Teknik comps, and custom AC and speaker connector panels and multi-pin patch to monitor board. It can run off (2) 20-amp circuits. All racks and accessory cases are 25"x 45" for easy truck pack and accessory cases stack (2 on 2). Our entire system packs in two stacked accessory cases (all PD, mics, cabling, stands, etc.), two amp racks, along with two consoles and FOH acc. rack - all on HD casters. Pass the word. Thanks, Bob

Hey Trey, first time I stopped by looking at the Klipsch forum in quite a while. Don't really do the social network thing, but am interested if Klipsch is showing any more interest in the pro (portable) sound market. I'm still doing shows from time to time, but mostly sub out whatever gear the client wants. I haven't really been using my full KP600 rig as I usually have to sub out a preferred line array and whatever digital console is the flavor of the year. I can say we used only Klipsch speakers for all our concerts and festivals from 1973-2006. Still use the KP600 system, if I can. We went from pre pro La Scalas and Heresys to MCMs/LSIs/HISMs to KP600s/KP456s/KSM-15s. Our last final system still looks like new - all impeccably maintained top to bottom. If you know anyone that might be interested in picking up probably the most tricked out, packaged KP600 rig ever put together, please let me know. It already paid for itself long ago and I'll deal. All flying hardware, Cloud 9 covers, KP600EC crossovers, cabling, efficient amp rack system, custom, panels, etc. I really don't use it enough to keep it anymore. Also, I have tons of spare KP600 parts from labels, grill cloth, nuts, screws, bolts, drivers, and diaphragms to go along with it. I even have all the original boxes and manuals for every piece of racked gear. I have stacks of Klipsch Pro brochures, KP600 manuals, even a full copy of the stress test data on the 600s, pics of the prototypes we tested, etc. Originally I hadn't thought about breaking all the system apart and was trying to see if I could find a buyer for the turnkey KP600 rig. It's a full 8-stack 600 rig (8 KP650HF-A, 8 KP650LF-A, 4 KP680-A, and 2 KP682-A) all with covers, wheel trays, and complete flying rig (all but the chain motors). All amps are Carver PT1250s, all Whirlwind EP cabling, Ram Sound custom fused input panels, etc. You could just plug the output of a new digital console into left and right inputs and you'd have a system capable of providing concert sound for 6,000+ people. I'll even throw in all the AC/Hubble power cabling. Every single piece is in absolute perfect condition. Besides the main house rig, we have 12 KSM-15IIs all in ATA cases that hold 4 each and 2 KP456As that comprised our monitor rig. Any chance Klipsch would like a mint, ready to go, cased up demo rig of something cool from their past? This rig worked with unbelievable national acts through the years and still sounds better than 90% of what you can buy today.

Although, Dave and I have known each other for quite a while, we've never met face to face. Same with Joey Brogna (Northeast Sound). Through the years I've been on the phone with just about every sound company that used Klipsch speakers on the road. We are currently in our 36th year and have used only Klipsch speakers since the beginning. I was fortunate to have some input on the final configuration of the KP600 and still think it's one of the most dynamic and best sounding rigs out there. Unfortunately, it's not too well known by any of the Production Managers today. I think Dave quit using his quite a few years ago. Joey is still using his on a regular basis. I still am using our 24 box (8 full KP600 stacks) system for festivals and concerts. We also use KP-456s and KSM-15IIs for monitors. Our company will be doing one of the stages at Festival International de Louisiane April 24-26th in Lafayette, LA in a couple of weeks. We used to do their main stage (1993-2000) with the 8 stack system, but I now do a smaller stage with a 4 stack system. I did the main stage at the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival (8 4-way MCM stacks along with 8 LSIs) 1982 through 1986 along with main stages at city festivals all across the South. Of all the festivals I've done, Festival International is absolutely the coolest. It's focus is international music from all over the world (common language French), with great food and atmosphere. It's a free festival in downtown Lafayette, we do the Scene Heritage stage. It's the one under the large tent in the pictures. Here's a link to the festival: http://www.festivalinternational.com/site47.php If you want to hear a KP600 system in use and enjoy a great festival - come on down. I'll be sitting at the FOH console, come by and say hello. Bob

EV's current production 10 is the DL10X. It is rated at 300 watts which is higher than the EVM-10s were. Although EV may be using the DL10X as their 10 in current models, I'd bet the parameters are not the same. I'd ask Speaker Exchange for data on the two models. Because the speaker is only used in a limited range (400-1.5K), the efficiency rating may be the most important. I'd still search for used EVM-10s. There should be a bunch around. The only difference between production EVM-10s and Klipsch K-41s was Klipsch had them made with plain dust caps instead of ones with EV on them.

Thack, actually my comment was on the earlier post saying how interesting it was the LSIs fit so neatly on top. It definitely was an all purpose 18" follow up to the "stubby sub" (115). It would have been better if there had been two AX versions, one for the 250s and a lower HPF for the LSI and 450s. A switch on the x-over would have been cool. I do need to catch up with Bruce. He and Lea used to come down this way every year for his family reunion in Navarre. They would take off, leave the kids with grandparents and Bruce, Lea, Pam and I would spend the day boating and visiting. I'm way overdue for getting in touch. Today, I just found a ton of pictures including some taken in Hope testing MCMs out by the old lab, a picture of a LB-BG, and pics of the prototype wood 600 system taken in Tuscaloosa. Some funny pics of Gary Gillum, Curtis, and Paul. There also are a lot of large show/festival pics using the MCMs and 600s. I plan to get them organized eventually. When I can figure out how to post some here I will if that's ok.

The KP-480 (4000 in carpeted version) was definitely designed to augment the LSI and KP450/456. It was no accident. They are all the same sensitivity. As seen in the previous picture it is an exact width match for the LSI. Turn it on it's side and it's an exact match for the KP450/456. I used a couple of 480s with 456s on top for side fill monitors for awhile. The simplicity of the AX (internal network) and sensitivity match made a killer passive system. My only complaint was that the crossover point was at 120 Hz. It should have been more like 80 or so taking just the bottom octave off the LSI or 450. I played with a few active crossovers on the set up but eventually sold my 480s with a pair of 450s to a small night club for a house PA.

The 1132 3" drivers are still in production and being used in some of the large theatre systems. Your 650HFs have a 2-barrel manifold with the 2 K60 drivers. The 1132 version has a different mounting and throat that replaces the manifold. You probably won't be able to find one of those except built on a later 650HF 2" horn assembly. K60s are EV DH1506 drivers which are no longer made, but EV still stocks replacement diaphragms. The K45 15s are a lot different than the K46s and I wouldn't put K45s in the 650LFs. The entire production of the 600 system used K41s in the low mids, which you should be able to find. It was essentially a stock EVM-10. EV doesn't make them anymore either, but re-cone kits are available. There should be a lot floating around used. Mine are 20 years old and still kicking.

Michael, I don't have a clue where any of the MCM pieces I owned are today. I still have a file of serial numbers but I'm sure they've changed hands a number of times since 1988 when I sold the last of them. If you find some MMTM-BGs with aluminum trim on the front, they are part of the 8 Klipsch did for me. I'm not aware of any others that exist. They didn't want to do the trim on them like the MTM-BGs. Also, I had 4 MWM-BGs with aluminum trim across the front door. Originally, they had the word "Klipsch" across the panel. I got them to paint over the name and add a piece of trim instead. I sold my MCMs two packages of (4) MCM sets each. I gave each company the covers that went with them. The picture you saw had two of the "trimmed" MWM-BG and some of the covers. 4 MCMs I sold to a guy in Arkansas and the other 4 to a company in Alabama. Each group I sold had 2 MWM, 4 MWM-S, 4 MSSM, 4 MSM, and 4 MMTM - all BG with the rain covers. As far as 600 system updates. The original production KP650HFs had (2) K60s for midrange. Mine were all swapped out for the single 1132 driver/horn. Sonically, there was little if any difference, but the reliability and power handling of the single 1132 was better. The K41 low mid and K78 tweeters stayed the same throughout production. I also swapped out all the original 18s for the "bump back" versions that replaced the original K47s that were in the 680 sub. The 650LF always had K46 drivers. Mine still have K46Es, later ones had Klipsch K46KPs. I guess the system is still working with killer acts of the day. Newer acts like Keith Urban, Brad Paisley, and Toby Keith have played through my PA. I don't do any serious (loud) rock acts anymore. Jazz and Blues would still be my preference. Got my first Triumph in 1971.

No, the LBs were never in production. I had a couple for a while. They were loud but the low end just didn't sound right. The concept was sorta like a chopped La Scala bottom with a Cornwall horn, and a massive network. I sold mine to a guy in North Alabama and there are a few floating around. Hundreds of Klipsch speakers went through our company through the years. I've seen some of them on e-Bay and places. Some had custom factory changes that weren't on any others - like my (8) MMTM-BGs which were not a factory option. I also saw some of my MCMs on e-Bay with outdoor covers I had made in Tuscaloosa by a boat cover guy. I designed them for doing outdoor festivals. They were gray with black scrim in front. The front covers would roll up and velcro held them in place. I couldn't believe they still were floating around. Those were made back in the early 80s.

Thack, didn't realize you were around here until Joey told me there was a commercial Klipsch forum. I got your e-mail and will drop you a note. My professional past with Klipsch started way before there was a Klipsch Pro past. After working part time for Kerry Likis in Birmingham and living in Tuscaloosa, I built my first Klipsch PA with standard La Scalas in 1972. In 1973 I started Ram Sound and the system grew to 12 La Scalas powered by Phase Linear 700s. I eventually split the La Scalas (Klipsch wasn't doing this yet) for more flexibility stacking and coverage. At the time I used standard Heresys with tilt back legs. I added zener diodes to protect the tweeters and drove the pi** out of them with Phase Linears. We were doing all sorts of acts from Iron Butterfly to Dave Brubeck. When Klipsch finally built pro versions, I sold the old stuff and built a new PA with (8) 4-way MCMs, (8) LSI-splits, and (8) KSMs still powered by Phase Linears. I did concerts and festivals across the U.S. with that PA including the main stage at the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival 1982 through 1986. After working with Klipsch on the 600 project and further monitor development, the MCM system was replaced with an (8) stack KP600 system in 1988. I had given up the Flame Linears when Bob Carver began making pro amps. I still use Carver 1250s and all the '88 model 600s, although drivers were changed and updated with further development. They still sound great and look like new. The other pro speakers I still use are (12) KSM-15II monitors, a couple of KP456s, and some KP682s added for more bottom when I couldn't get anymore 600LFs. I don't work too much anymore. I stopped trying to grow when Kiipsch moved out of the pro business. I lost some great relationships with Klipsch, Carver, and DDA. Some of my passion died along with them. Midas and KT are still around with the quality they were always famous for. I really did enjoy getting away owning what I wanted to use over what the market pressures dictated. Nowadays I spend free time riding with my Harley friends - I ride a TRIUMPH!

Thack!!!!! Now there's a voice from the past. Where are you now and are you and Georgia still together? If so, please also say hello to her from another voice out of the past. Hope you're doing ok. Before you ask, yeah, I'm still working, but not near as much as I used to. Only about as much as I want to. We are now in our 36th year and still using 100% Klipsch speakers. I'd probably have done a lot more in the past if the damn manufacturing company hadn't given up on live sound (pro) products. The relationship with Klipsch was great in those early years even way before there was a Klipsch Professional division. Testing out potential product prototypes and getting some input into them certainly endeared me to the products. The names were interesting, ie: LBs (never made production) and BMFs (evolved into MCMs). I'll never forget using the wood prototype 600s on a small show. I was thrilled that things were really finally happening. When the Professional division started, I was thinking the sky's the limit. Product development went through an incredible period until the sky actually fell. I bet the Klipsch line array would have been a great one. Martin is about the only company that designed one with a really efficient horn loaded bottom. The first great Klipsch monitors came after playing with Martins and Tracy evolved those further into KSM-12 and KSM-15 (which I still use the final version today). Let me know if you ever get down Florida way. I would love to catch up. Bob