bacevedo

I would like to add that I think you would probably regret getting the KSW 15 over the RSW 15. Those RF-7's that you have will just leave the KSW 15 in the dust. It won't be able to keep up. Trust me - I know that with my RB-5's, my KSW 12 can't keep up. Your RF-7's are a lot more efficient, and deserve a sub that is in the same league. You spent some $$$ on those nice speakers - I wouldn't match them with a sub that isn't in the same class. My $.02. Bryan

Thanks again Jim! How far from the wall will these subs need to be? Since there is an active driver in the back, they obviously can't be right up to it - but how far out does it need to be? Just trying to figure out how far out it will be from the wall to the front of the sub. And that spec of 100db at 20Hz for the RSW 12 aint bad at all! I am afraid if I got 115db at 20 Hz, everything in my house would just shake - 'cause I doubt that I could hear that low! But you know, now that I think about it - I can FEEL it that low - and if I am going to spend $1400, what's another $400 for the ultimate in performance? Reference level all the way down to 20Hz! I never play my system at reference, and the extra headroom could make it an ultimate setup. I used to worry about my RB5's drowning out my KSW12, but now I am worried that RSW 15 would drown out my RB5's. Oh what a problem that I would love to have! Thanks, Bryan Oh, and by the way - those new pics look nice. I like all of the home theather lifestyle pics! Very classy. And you are right - the back of these subs is a testament to good engineering. I like how the amp plate curves around the woofer. Those new copper woofers like pretty amazing - nice big surrounds! This message has been edited by bacevedo on 09-18-2001 at 05:47 PM

Thanks JimG! You answered all of my questions! I figured there was more to the 15 than just the specs showed. Now you have made my decision harder! I was set on the 12, but now I don't want to get it and feel that I am missing something because I didn't get the 15. But I am thinking that the RSW 12 would suffice for me, as one KSW 12 is almost doing the trick. I thought about just getting one KSW 15, but if even the RSW 10 can better it (at least in spl), I would think that the RSW 12 would better the KSW 15 in both extension and output. True? Can you post those FR curves for the different RSW subs? I would like to see what I am giving up in terms of 20 Hz performance with the RSW 12 vs. the RSW 15. Because right now, my KSW 12 is almost non-existent in this (20 Hz) territory. If the RSW 12 can post some respectable numbers here, I may save the $400 and get it instead. I really doubt my wife would let me get the RSW 15 anyway - too much cash and the sub would probably be too big! For her at least, but not for me! But of course - I have to listen to them first! Thanks JimG - I really appreciate your info! Bryan

Yeah - TV - I guess I am gonna have to wait. But when it comes to this, patience is something that doesn't come easily - I want it now! I am hoping that Klipsch is so proud of these subs that they push them out to the reviewers soon. By the way, would SVS ever consider making a box type sub? For those of us who can't put a big cylinder in our room (well, we could, but our spouse couldn't ). I am assuming with your expertise you could probably build a pretty killer box sub, too. Just curious. And Doug - yeah - sorry it took me so long to analyze the specs - work got in the way! Bryan This message has been edited by bacevedo on 09-17-2001 at 11:24 PM

I am interested in the RSW 12. Comparing the 3 subs, it seems there is a big jump in performance from the 10 to the 12, but not as big of a jump from the 12 to the 15. Is this true? Or is there more to the 15 than the numbers show? I say this because the 15 only goes down 3 Hz lower (19 Hz vs 22 Hz), and only has 2 db more output at 30Hz. That leads into my 2nd question. What is that Max Output spec? It says for the RSW 12 that it is 119 db at 30 Hz 1/8 space 1 meter. (The RSW 15 says 121 db for the same info and the RSW 10 says 109 db) What does 1/8 space mean? I thought it meant between two given frequency ranges you divide it up into 8 equal "spaces". Is that what that means? Then this number would seem to indicate an average, but then it says at 30 Hz. I am just confused by what this spec is saying. Is it saying that at 30Hz it is capable of 119 db, or is it the avg db from 30 Hz up to some point? What point, what distortion? I am trying to compare these numbers to the TN data of other subs (specifically the velodyne spl or hgs subs). I know it is apples to oranges, but I might be able to correlate seeing how the KSW specs are posted by Klipsch and TN, and doing the same type of conversions for the RSW sub. Also, why a rear firing active with a front firing passive? Why not do a front firing active with a rear firing passive? Just curious. Is the rear driver covered with a speaker grill as well? Just wondering if it will be out in the open for little fingers or big paws to get a hold of. I would love to see some pictures of the rear of the sub - trying to figure out where the connectors are if there is a big ole woofer back there. Finally, it says there are 2 RCA inputs so I am assuming the use of a L & R input with an LFE setting (crossover defeat switch). Will these inputs be summed like the KSW subs, or will you only need to use 1 of them for a mono sub output receiver (as opposed to using a y adapter)? Again, just curious. These subs look pretty incredible (a friggin' 1000W rms amp with 2400 watt peak power - yowza) - and I can't wait to actually listen to one and see how much I have been missing with my "lowly" KSW 12. Can any Klipsch guys comment on how big the difference would be (Like Night and Day, Black and White, etc.)? How do they sound - tight, deep and punchy? Musical? Thanks for the info! Bryan This message has been edited by bacevedo on 09-17-2001 at 04:58 PM

Doh - As I take my foot out of my mouth! Thanks guys! Bryan

Come on Klipsch guys! Where are the specs for the new subs? You promised that we would have them by the 10th. Then said no, time constraints weren't permitting, so by mid week. Now here we are - a full week after promised and several months after the initial announcement - with nothing. Not even some info posted in a new thread with even basic specs. You have some very dedicated Klipsch consumers here, who are starting to feel a little blown off. Just give us some info. Even if it is not 100% set in stone. I don't care if the frequency response changes by 1 Hz from now until when they come out. I just want to know what these things are capable of. I am sure I am not alone in this! So come on guys - you are getting beat up because you aren't telling us anything. At least give us something! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3802 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - Mains Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall Surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub (hopefully an RSW12 whenever they come out!) Monster Power Conditioner Acoustic Research Pro Series Interconnects

Penguin - Congrats! I am sure you are excited. I have the RB5's mated with a 3802, and let me tell you - the ability to play loud is an understatement. I have the KSW 12 sub with them right now, and I want to upgrade to the RSW 12 - whenever Klipsch gets around to releasing them and letting us see the specs. I just have to wait 'til September 10th - oh wait - it is already past that. Oh well. The combination of Denon and Klipsch (especially the new reference series) is awesome! I have heard the RF3's - and I still prefer the RB5's - they are easier to place and sound very dynamic. Now the new RF5 and 7 - that is a different story. I haven't had a chance to hear them, but they are supposed to be pretty incredible with that new bigger horn. Again, congrats. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3802 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub (hopefully an RSW12 whenever they come out!) Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

JimG, I understand not being able to get everything up to the site, but can't someone just post some specs in a thread? Something to hold us over until the rest of the info is up on the site? Bryan

DrPyro, I like the VCR, but honestly, I hardly ever use it! It has good picture quality and sound quality, and the recording quality is pretty good. The sound quality is actually very good on both pre-recorded and recorded-off satellite tapes. In order to take advantage of SVHS, you are supposed to buy SVHS tapes, which are a lot more expensive. The JVC's have some technology called SVHS-ET, which is supposed to give you SVHS quality on high quality regular tapes. I played with that a little bit when I first got it, and I didn't think the quality was that great. I just record in regular VHS and it is fine. The real reason I wanted an SVHS VCR was for simplicity in the system. I can now use all S-Video cables, and I don't have to worry about also switching the TV inputs between different sources. This really isn't for me, but for my wife - when she wants to watch a DVD or play a tape for our son, she just hits whichever macro button on the remote, and everything is setup no matter what mode it was in before, or whether or not it was on or off. If I had to switch inputs on the TV, it would add another level of complexity, because of the way my TV works when first turning on (I have the discrete codes for each input, but it doesn't help when the TV ignores them). It doesn't respond to any remote commands until it is "warmed up" when first turning on. Since that time can change (if the TV was just turned off for instance), it is impossible to make a usable macro for it. A macro that had to delay for 8 seconds before it could finish would basically be useless. Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps. Bryan

That would be cool to be able to check out someone else's setup! Especially another Klipsch setup! Doug, I live in South Chandler (Ocotillo area - Pecos Ranch to be exact) but I work in Scottsdale. Where about in Scottsdale do you live? I go up to the Showcase on Frank Loyd Wright all of the time to check out their new stuff. I bought all of my stuff from the Showcase in Chandler, but my salesguy (the store manager) transferred to the Scottsdale store, so I go and see him. They have a very nice set up there, and some great demo rooms! Go check it out if you haven't! Bryan

Mike - nice post! Do what he said, but also be aware of a few caveats so you can decide which is best for you. The on screen display from the 3802 is only output on the S-Video or composite outputs, not the component outputs. So you won't get the on screen settings or information when using the the component input on your TV. Really, there is no reason to run your component video through the 3802 at all, since you don't have multiple sources with component outputs (at least not yet). You might as well just run the component cables straight to the TV. This will keep the signal from being degraded by the receiver (if it is degraded at all). Then what I would do is run an S-Video cable from your DVD player to the receiver as well, so that you can switch to the s-video input on your tv, and adjust any settings while watching the DVD. One thing though, if your VCR doesn't have S-Video, then maybe you can use just the composite out of the DVD player, so that you only have to run one cable to the tv (instead of s-video and composite) and only have to switch between two inputs on the tv instead of 3 (svid,composite,component). For the speaker settings - I would recommend all small, and leave the crossover at 80Hz. I have mine set up that way, and I have a very similiar setup to yours. You could play with setting your front speakers to large, and see if you like that sound better (or even all to large). What is cool about the Denon is you can then set the sub to LFE + Main, and it will still send the bass from all the large speakers to the sub in addition to sending the bass to all the speakers set as large. I am sitting here waiting patiently until the new RSW subs are released, so I can replace my KSW 12, and get some serious bass going! I will without a doubt be getting a new sub (either Velodyne SPL1200, or RSW 12) and will set all speakers to small and let the sub do its thing. For the record, here is how mine is set up. RCA DirecTV - S-Video out to S-Video in on Receiver JVC SVHS VCR - S-Video out to S-Video in on Receiver Denon DVD - S-Video out to S-Video in on Receiver Denon 3802 - S-Video out to S-Video in on TV This allows me to see the on screen info from the receiver no matter what I am watching, and I don't have to mess with the TV inputs at all. Sure, the component video from the DVD player might be a little better, but I don't think it is worth the hassle of changing inputs on the TV just to view a movie, and then back again to watch Satellite. This makes the macros on my remote so much easier (don't have to learn the discrete codes for my tv inputs, which do exist, and I know what they are). The reason it is easier is that my tv won't change inputs until it is on and displaying something, so for the first few seconds after turning it on, it is "warming" up, and not responding to any remote commands. When the TV is already on, then the macros work. But when it is being turned on, the TV will stay in the "wrong" input, and only I will know how to fix it, as opposed to my wife trying to figure out what is going on. Eventually, when everything goes to component, then I will ditch the VCR (Tivo should replace that before too long) and use only the component inputs and outputs. Good luck! Bryan

What other upgrades are there to the RB5 besides the Monster wire? Just the finishes? Or are there some changes to the crossovers and drivers themselves? Bryan

Jeremy, Wait! Don't do that! There is no way to hook up the coax cable from the wall to your receiver! What you need to do is hook the coax cable signal (I am assuming you mean a video signal from an antenna, a cable system, or a satellite system) to a tuner, like a VCR, cable box, DSS receiver or TV. It depends on what you want to use to tune the channels with. Then, you will use the video out (and audio out) of that tuner, to one of the video inputs (and audio inputs) on your receiver. Give us some more info, and maybe we can help you out. What kind of signal is it? What tuner are you planning on using? Will you be using S-Video or regular composite video? And don't worry, no one here is going to laugh at you. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3802 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub (hopefully an RSW12 whenever they come out!) Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

BobG, How do you guys feel about putting a sub in a niche in a media wall cutout? I am getting ready to build a niche, with an alcove that is 20" tall, by 20" wide and 28" deep. I currently have a KSW 12 - will that just kill the bass or make it too boomy? What about putting an RSW 12 (or 10 if the 12 is too big for that niche) in that space? As for it's location, it would be at the front of the room, on the same plane as the front speakers (RB5), but directly below the right speaker. It would be directly on the floor (carpet). Thanks for any info you could give me. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3802 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub (hopefully an RSW12 whenever they come out!) Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

I agree with avman - I don't think it is the dvd player. Jason said in his first post --------- Im powering them with a Denon 2801 and have Monster bulk speaker wire (the $1.50/ft kind). I have a Toshiba 3109 DVD player that I also use to play cd's and it's connected by an optical cable. --------- Is that the only connection you have - the optical cable? If the Denon is doing the decoding, then maybe it is the receiver that is making it harsh. I own a 3802, and use its internal DACs for CD's, and it sounds fine to me on my RB5s. Do what avman said, try using the internal DACs of the DVD player (using the analog input) and compare to the digital input. On your Denon, you should be able to just switch between digital and analog mode. If there is no change, then I doubt it is your DVD player or receiver that is causing the problem. It may just be the CD as others have said. I know there are certain CDs that I just can't listen to on my main system because they are so poorly engineered. However, I can listen to them on a boombox or in the car with no problem. Good luck! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3802 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub (hopefully an RSW12 whenever they come out!) Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

Yeah - I saw that too and got all excited! I thought maybe there would be some early leaks or specs for us to check out. Oh well - guess we gotta wait like the rest of them! Bryan

Hey Ross - I see you live in Anthem, AZ. I live in Chandler, AZ. Other side of the earth from you! Do you have that garage cooled with AC? I know mine, even at night is way too hot to even just sit in. How often do you go out there and watch movies in the heat? Bryan

Thanks! I think I will just wait a few weeks until they are released. An RSW 10 might do me fine as well. I am assuming that an RSW 10 would probably whip a KSW 12. Thanks for the info you gave me, even if I can't use it all! I understand about the printing deadline - but I got this thing a few months ago in the mail! I started to get all excited thinking they were coming, and unfortunately had to wait! I have been looking at Velodyne recently, but wanted to see what these new Klipsch subs will do. I would rather have a Klipsch sub that matches the characteristics of my other reference speakers, but the KSW series can't even come close to a Velodyne SPL or HGS series. Hopefully these RSWs will change that! We will see! This message has been edited by bacevedo on 08-21-2001 at 02:41 PM

Could you at least tell me if I make the niche big enough for the KSW 12, will the RSW 12 fit there as well? Or do I have to wait to build this niche until September 10th? Thanks at least for a date! Now we know. But one thing I find odd is that my local dealer has an ad that displays the RSW 10 as new, and selling for $999. How can they list it as for sale if they aren't even out yet? Did they just anticipate a little too early? Bryan

I am getting ready to build a new media niche for my home theater system. I am going to have an alocove for the sub built and need to know how big the new RSW subs are. I currently have the KSW 12, and will make the niche big enough for that sub. However, I will most likely upgrade to an RSW 12 (maybe an RSW 15 if there is a huge difference) when they come out. I want to make sure that my niche will be big enough for it. Does anyone know about how high, wide and deep these subs are? And how much space around it, it will need. I think it is a sealed enclosure, which helps out, since I don't have to worry about a port up against a wall. Can anyone help me? Klipsch, can you at least help out with the approximate dimensions? If you are really feeling generous can you tell me about when they will be out? I would love to see some specs on this thing(like how low does it go, how many db's, etc.) Thanks, Bryan

atom, Here are my settings: Denon Xover set to 80 Hz for sub, all speakers set to small. Xover on sub set to 120Hz (fully open to bypass it basically). Level on sub out on Denon set to -2 (set per Sound & Vision test results). Level on the sub itself set to about 8. These could be different for you though, depending on your room. What is it about the performance that you don't like? I thought that set up sounded pretty incredible. I don't want you to think that the 3802 blows it away, cause it doesn't - it just sounds a little warmer. SteveP, Yeah - I was bummed I had the problems too, I think I just got a very rare bad one from Denon. I bet that external amp helped out a lot! I don't think a 3802 would make a difference in your setup - as I really think most of the changes were to the amplification stage. I would think that your setup would sound better than a "stock" 3802. Now that I have had DPLII, I could live without it, but I do really like it, so I am glad that I have it. (Sounds weird I know) Bryan

I believe this is only at Costco Online. www.costco.com. I am an avid Costco shopper and they have the best return policy in the business. These prices may not be as low as a UBid, but Costco will take a returned item with no receipt, no box, for a long time! I have returned broken or defective items over a year later, with no receipt and no box - and they gave me a full refund with no problems. So even if Klipsch doesn't honor the warranty, Costco will. And I would be surprised if Klipsch didn't honor the warranty for Costco. I think people don't understand the difference between a dealer that isn't explicitly authorized, and a true unauthorized dealer. If you bought these speakers from a guy in a white van, then that is not authorized. I can't see Costco going out and obtaining black market goods that they shouldn't be selling and leaving their paying members with a product that doesn't have a warranty. They just don't operate like that. So anyone from Klipsch care to comment? Does Klipsch even ask where you bought it if you need warranty service? Why would they care? If the serial # is legit, and you can prove it was purchased within the warranty time line, then you shouldn't have a problem. I have never seen such a paranoia with authorized dealers as I have seen with home audio! Bryan

Yes - you read that right! KLF-10 $299.99 each. Just thought that I would let you all know. Bryan

Oh my - that is quite a system you have! ----- I don't even know where to start on this. My soundstage is HUGE now. IMO it sounds better then any of the theaters in my town. ----- I would venture to say that it probably sounds better than any theater ANYWHERE! That is a killer system - you must be jazzed to finally be in that audio nirvana! Reference 7 Series all the way around - your dealer must LOVE you! Congrats! Bryan