bacevedo

Capta - I don't have any experience with those two receivers (as you mentioned), but if I were you - I would try to get the 1802. I remember reading a review that said the step from the 1601 to the 1801 was a pretty big step up in sound quality, and that from the 1801 to the 2801 was a smaller step. I would have to think that the 1802 brings the gap closer, but I don't know. The best thing to do is try and listen to them both with the same speakers that you have, and see which one you like. The fact that you are looking at Denon's entry level stuff is already a plus, as it will easily outperform JVC, Kenwood and Yamaha stuff at the same price point. At least in my biased opinion! Check out ecoustics.com for some reviews. Good luck. Bryan

Well, I am biased, (I have the RB5), and would recommend them highly. I like the fact that you can buy speaker stands for them and place them at the correct height, and toe them in exactly like they need to be. With a good sub they sound great. The other speakers may play louder, but I love the accuracy of the RB5's. Also, they look good and blend in well with the room - not huge and overpowering like the big towers. Good luck! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3802 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

Also, if you end up with a 3802, you probably won't need an EQ. I use the tone defeat on it, and the sound is great. Bryan

Gamer - my wife doesn't even let me finish saying it any more! "But honey - this is the..." - "I don't even want to hear you say that - just stop right there." Oh well. All I can say is go for the 3802 - it will not disappoint! Bryan

I don't think running the receiver that high will cause any problems with the receiver at all. I would only be concerned about my surrounds being overdriven by having them set that high AND turning the receiver up to compensate for the balance differences. As long as you don't hear any distortion, then I am sure you will be fine. Bryan

Gamer - you should also check out the 3802. I posted a review on it in this forum. I don't think the power will be an issue with ultra efficient Klipsch speakers. I would love to have the 4802, but it is more than twice the cost of a 3802 (MSRP anyway). I do believe that the 3802 comes a lot closer to the sound of the 4800 and 5800. I don't know much about Marantz receivers, other than they are a good brand as well. Good luck! Bryan

OK - first a little background. I bought the AVR 3801 back in February. I was completely blown away by its performance when compared to my old JVC 8000 series. I had it paired with Klipsch RB5 bookshelf's, RC3 center, RCW3 surrounds (in walls), Klipsch KSW 12 sub. I always loved the sound of the 3801, but I was never really impressed with the sub performance. I assumed I just needed a better sub. From the start, I had problems with the s-video out on the receiver. It would just randomly cut out, leaving my tv with no display. Sometimes it would go off for a few seconds, sometimes a few minutes. It would also go for a few months at a time with no problem. It finally started happening again after several months with no problems, so I finally got tired of it, and called my local dealer. He said to bring it on in and they would swap me out a new one. Enter the 3802. I asked him if I could instead get the 3802 when it came out in a few weeks and he said no problem. They were going to make me pay $150 difference between what I paid for the 3801 and the 3802 MSRP, but I talked him out of it since I had spent quite a bit of money with them already. Again, no problems there - good local dealers are great! Now for the good stuff. I picked it up this weekend and brought it home. While I was at the shop, I asked why the new 3802 was a pound lighter than the old 3801, if they supposedly beefed up the power supply and stuff. The guy said he wasn't sure, but showed me the volume controls on the 3801 were machined metal (pretty heavy), and the 3802 are plastic. They look and feel identical, but they are a lot different in weight. So, maybe they changed all of the knobs (keeping the price low and lowering the weight). I imagine it is things like this that made the weight differences. First, the similiarities. The back panel is identical, and the front panel looks almost identical. The remote control is the exact same remote. The specs for the video are the same, so no changes there. Also, before I returned the 3801, I noted the power supply to see if it really had changed. The 3802 power supply has the exact same look and number on it that the 3801 had. Now for the differences. The front panel looks identical at first glance, but a few changes. First, the button labelled 6.1/7.1 on the front of the 3801 has been relabelled to Tone Defeat. That's right! You can defeat the tone control permanently for all modes. It bypasses the tone circuits completely for purer sound. The only other difference I noticed was the removal of the "Locked" indicator on the screen. It no longer indicates that it has locked onto a digital signal with a light. Not sure why they removed it, but they did. Internal differences seem to be subtle as well. The volume control now goes from -70 to +18, where as the 3801 went from -60 to + 18. Not sure why, but it is different. Also, you now have the abitlity to change the sub Xover, which is nice. I still leave mine at 80 Hz, as this sounds good with my setup. OK - get on with it - how does it sound? In a word - AMAZING. I thought the 3801 sounded incredible - the 3802 takes it up another level. I played several CD's that I am very familiar with on the 3801, as well as my Dolby Digital Trailer DVD. The sound was cleaner, the bass was deeper, had more impact, was tighter, and more controlled. My sub was sounding good! I am not sure what they did with the sub pre-out, but they must have cleaned it up. I know S&V tested the sub out and found 1.9% distortion at 0 trim. I always left my sub out at -2 to counter this, and doing this with the 3802 produced better bass. My surround speakers also came alive. They sounded better, too, clearer and more articulated. Again, this is on material that I am totally familiar with, and listened to all of the time on my 3801. I remembered the shortcomings of the 3801 on these scenes, and listened explicitly for them on the 3802, and they weren't there. Whatever Denon did, they did it right! On music, the sound was also better. I think I now know what people mean when they say that warm Denon sound. The 3801 was no slouch, but the 3802 just had better vocals, and the bass was again deep, tight, and smooth. Everything just seemed to be really natural sounding. I think Denon really did work on bringing this back to the Denon sound. DPLII - is it worth it? Well, on Satellite, I can't hear a difference between it and DPL, or the Denon Matrix Mode. I almost like the Matrix Mode better, but I have not had a lot of time for TV viewing. It could just be the material I am watching. Not a lot of surround material on regular tv, so I couldn't tell you if the discrete surrounds make a difference. Music on the other hand is a whole new ballgame. It sounds great (to me) with the music mode of DPLII. I never cared for DTS Neo 6 on music, but I really like DPLII. Playing the same music in plain stereo sounded really flat and 2-dimensional. DPLII really opens it up, I really enjoyed it. My conclusion. The 3802 is an incredible piece of equipment. I couldn't imagine owning the 4802, because I bet that thing is even better. But for the money, this receiver is going to be hard to beat, at least in my mind. The 3801 was good, but I think the 3802 is better, and not because of DPLII. The sound quality has changed for the better, and that extra 5 watts of power doesn't say it all. In Denon's literature, they said something about changing their Bias Diode to give better sound at higher output. I think it worked! If there is anyone sitting on the fence on whether to buy the 3801 at a discount, or the 3802, I say without any hesitation to get the 3802 if you can afford it. It has every decoding format out, and has great sound to go with it. By the way - I don't have a 6.1/7.1 set up, so I don't know about the 6.1/7.1 features and performance. I use the extra two channels for the multi zone feature for my patios and dining room speakers. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3802 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable This message has been edited by bacevedo on 08-06-2001 at 05:42 PM

So Boa - would you say that the Monster Sub cable made the sub sound better? I already have a pretty good quality cable on the sub - just wondering if the sound will improve at all by using the Monster instead. Something just tells me that it shouldn't make a difference, and if it does, then they must have something in them that is changing the sound (like a resistor or something), because a cable shouldn't change the sound. If I had a really bad cable, with no sheilding and very thin wire, then I could see ANY decent cable making a difference. But I just don't see how a cable could improve from there. Bryan

Thanks! That is exactly what I was looking for. I only have 3 feet between my components for S-Video, and one 6 foot S-Video cable to the TV. I didn' want to spend >$100 on S-Video cable if it wasn't going to make a difference. I do understand that on longer runs it can make a difference, or if you have a noisy environment. But I don't have any noise, and the picture looks good to me. The sub cable sounds like it might be worth a try - with my credit it is basically free - so I don't have a lot to lose. The interconnects - that could be a change, but the only real audio (analog) interconnect that I would be worried about is from my Satellite receiver to my AVR. I don't think that the quality of TV programming audio is of high enough quality that I should worry about upgrading my interconnects for this. I use the digital cable from my DVD player to receiver (this is a Monster cable), so I don't need a high quality analog interconnect there as I never use that. The only time I need analog for this is if I want to listen to zone 2, and that is for my patio and other house speakers - basically background music on little speakers. It would be silly to buy "high-end" cable for this use. I do have analog interconnects between my VCR and AVR, but I barely ever use my VCR. And when I do, it is for watching recorded TV shows (Tivo would be nice!). Again, don't need highest quality there, as the source sucks to begin with. So I may just get that sub cable, unless others here tell me otherwise. Thanks again, Bryan

OK - now I need some more help. What is everyone's experience with regular cable vs Monster cable. I have a credit at Crutchfield, and am thinking about buying either Monster S-Video cables, or the Monster Sub300 cable. Does anyone have experience with these cables? I have never used Monster before (except for my digital interconnect), and I don't know if it will make a difference in my system. If I get their Video 2 series cables, will these improve on my Radio Shack Gold series cables? What about the sub cable - is it really worth it? I remember reading somewhere that TV actually uses just plain Video cable for the better shielding. Is the Monster Sub cable just a scam - can it really make my sub sound better than the Radio Shack Gold cable I have on it, or any other shielded cable? I would really like to hear some opinions from people who have actually tried the Monster cables, and if they noticed a difference or not from a decent quality Radio Shack cable. 'Cause if not, then I will use the credit for something else and just stick with the Radio Shack cables that I have. Thanks, Bryan

I guess it wouldn't hurt to try some KY! But it could be kind of messy! I am still trying to decide if I want new ones or not. I have $50 credit at Crutchfield from referring two friends there. There isn't anything else that I need from crutchfield. Now if they sold Denon or Klipsch gear, then that might change! I am thinking, too, that I don't move the cables around that much, but they have already screwed up my sat receiver - the connectors on the back are loose now, and I have to wiggle them to get sound. But it is just a cheapy RCA receiver, and will be replaced eventually, so I am not too worried about it. But I am getting a new 3802 (to replace my 3801), and figured I might as well change the cables, too. Thanks for the reply! Bryan

I have a question on the different brands of audio interconnects. I currently have Radio Shack Gold interconnects, and I think the performance is fine. However, the connectors themselves are really hard to deal with. They are so tight, that I feel like I am going to break something everytime I plug them in or pull them out. So, I was going to buy some new ones (audio only, the s-video connections are fine). I have a credit at Crutchfield, so I was looking there. All they carry is Monster for their home audio line, and it isn't cheap. However, I was looking at their Car audio interconnects, and they have Streetwires Musica interconnects, and Rockford Fosgate interconnects (which feature twisted pair technology), that look as good as the Monster cables, for half the price. Now my question is this - Is there any reason that I shouldn't use Car Audio interconnects as opposed to home audio interconnects? To me, there shouldn't be a problem, and car audio interconnects are probably shielded better than their home counterparts because of the noise a car engine can emit. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't anything different between the two types that could cause a problem in a home environment. Thanks! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

In my opinion - wait for the 3802. I have the 3801 - and love it. The 3802 only improves on it. I am trading mine in to my dealer for a 3802. (Another reason for local dealers - they take better care of you - I bought my 3801 5 months ago). If I had bought this online, I wouldn't be able to trade it in now, and would have to sell it for a big loss. Some people say DPLII is not that big of a deal. It may not be, but what if it is to YOU? You will never know unless you hear it, and then you may get buyers remorse, all to save a few bucks. Most of my use with this is with watching Satellite, which should benefit a lot from DPLII. So if you aren't going to watch TV with your receiver, and only watch DVD's in DD 5.1, then it may not be worth it. Also, they refined the 3801 in the 3802. A bigger power supply, better shielding, updated DDSC - all worth it in my opinion. It was said that they were trying to get it closer in quality to the 5800 on the japanese web site. Good luck with the decision. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

TV - I think that is what I have discovered - is that I am under-woofed! If my sub could put out deep bass, and the mid-bass at similiar levels - I think I would be ok. But since my sub has to be turned down so that it doesn't bottom out - the mid bass is also turned down. Since my bookshelf speakers are crossed over at 80Hz, I lose a lot of mid-bass. For example, I will be watching a movie, and there is bass in the scene - but it is a little higher frequency bass. It sounds low in level compared to the rest of the sound. Then all of a sudden a low frequency bass sound will come in and sound nice and filling. It could also just be the location of the sub in my room at those frequencies, but it is in the only location that I have to put it. You know that old WAF thing. When I set my bookshelfs to large, they seemed to fill in that missing midrange bass, but rolled off naturally so that they didn't reproduce any of that low bass. I really think a new sub would solve this problem, and unfortunately an SVS "tower" sub would not be accepted in my setup. So hence I am patiently waiting to see what the new Klipsch subs will be capable of. Also, I don't think that the KSW subs match up very well with the reference series speakers. The reference series woofs are very fast and efficient, the KSW's just seem very low-tech in comparison. That is why I am hoping the RSW line, with the same type of woofs, will blend better. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

I agree - these RB5's are an incredible sounding set of speakers. I have a brother-in-law who has some huge tower DCM speakers with a small horn tweeter, a 4" midrange and two 12" woofers. Of course his speakers kill mine in the bass category, but he commented the other day that his speakers don't sound as good in the midrange. I knew that all along! With an RSW sub, I think my set up would kill his in the bass category too! Once these RSW subs come out, I think pairing the RB5's with one of them will just about be as accurate sounding as you can get for the price! That is if the RSW line lives up to the hype! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable This message has been edited by bacevedo on 07-23-2001 at 04:51 PM

Yep - I do think it depends on the sub you have. I have the KSW 12 - which I don't think is up to the task of reference level. It sounds great on music, and at lower listening levels in my HT, but crank it, and it can't keep up with the rest of the system. I can't wait to see what these new reference subs are capable of! Maybe if I get the RSW 12 I can finally set my speakers to small and let the sub handle all that glorious bass! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

I still think that the whole large/small setting is not so cut and dry. After reading everywhere that I should set my speakers to small, and let the sub handle it all, I tried it. Sounded good. But I still felt I was lacking that mid-bass punch. So I played with the settings, setting everything to large. I like the sound a lot better this way. The bass is more articulated and defined. The sub has plenty of low rumble, but not a lot of articulation, so the other speakers pick up that slack. Of course, it helps that my Denon has a sub setting of LFE + Main. It takes the LFE signal, plus any speakers set to small. But the + Main also sends it the bass from all channels set to large. Also, my Denon has ample power, so I am not worried about straining it with large settings. My Klipsch speakers can hit theater levels with 16W of power! My receiver can put out 92 X 5 all channels driven simultaneously according to Sound & Vision. I don't think I will ever come close to that mark, in that I never watch movies at reference, and probably only require a few watts of power. I still agree with Boa, an adjustable crossover would help with the same problem. My sub is definitely better in the lower octaves, but my mains are much better in the higher bass area. I am just lucky that I can have the best of both worlds in my setup, but an adjustable crossover would be more efficient in that my mains could be freed of the lower bass, but still keep the mid bass. 80 Hz just seems to high of a crossover point for an 8" mid bass woofer. I also think the problem is that the crossover in the denon has a -3db of 80 Hz - so it is cutting the bass even before the stated crossover point. It would probably be better if it started cutting at 80 Hz, instead of about 100 Hz. Also, I think you are really asking a lot from a sub to play back the bass from 6 channels! If you have an explosion that sends bass to all 6 channels (5 + LFE), your sub not only has to play back LFE at +10db, but all of the other 5 channels as well. It can easily be overloaded and become compressed. I still think the best solution is to have 5 full range speakers with their own subs, plus an LFE sub. Unless of course you have SVS subs which can handle it. I would love to hear HornEd's set up - as I bet it totally kicks! You can see my equipment list below for the specifics of what I have. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

Also, MP3's are the worst thing to use to audition speakers. They are harsh to begin with - the RB5's were probably reproducing what they were getting! I have the RB5's paired with a Denon 3801 - and the sound is pure audio bliss! Like was mentioned - placement is very important with these speakers. Every room will be different with respect to dips and bumps in the frequency response. It amazes me how many dealers are partial to a brand of equipment - why even bother carrying the other gear if you steer people away from it? ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

Thanks for all of the replies and the humor. Yes, I know that in the end I will tweak it by ear, I was just trying to find a starting point, and wondering why my ear and tastes were so much different than what all of the "professionals" said to do. I have seen that geocities link before (good ol' Phil - he loves his JBL's and Yamaha equipment!). I especially like his comparison of all the receivers and their power ratings from Sound & Vision. It looks like my Denon 3801 is not a limp puppy like so many people thought after all! Also, for you gourmet people - if you don't have the "golden tongue" then you won't know how it really tastes, and don't really know what to taste for. If you think that it tastes good with more salt, then obviously you have been eating inferior food, and just can't appreciate the better tasting foods. Earle, I bet that what you are saying is the reason that most of us have this problem. It makes the most sense to me, and that is why true calibration would require an RTA. Domain - do you have the 3300? I know on my 3801, I set my sub level to -2, and use the sub to compensate. I adjusted to this based on Sound & Visions review. They said that at 0, with the worst case signals, the sub out had 1.9% distortion, and that setting it to -2 would virtually ensure that you never overdrove the output. I bet setting your level to -12 has 0 distortion and would make your sub sound better. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

T-man - that is the same problem I have. Even when I use the tones on the DVD or the receiver. I have read in a few places that setting it to the same level is only valid if you use an RTA, otherwise, there is some correction that you need to make (add 3 or 4 db). That is why I am not clear, because setting like the AVIA disc says produces very little bass. When I adjust the bass by ear, it is also pegging my SPL meter. I guess I am not alone in this! I also use C-weighting and slow response. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

I have a question on setting my sub level (KSW 12) with the AVIA DVD and a Radio Shack SPL Meter (Analog). I have a Denon AVR 3801, RB5's for the front, RC3 for the center, and RCW3 for the rears. With the AVIA DVD, it says to set the level of the Sub to the same level as the other speakers. I am setting my other speakers to 75db (at a given volume position on my receiver). When I set my sub to this, it seems very weak on music and movies. Is this the correct setting? Am I just used to having my sub set too high that everything seems too weak? I have read that the RS meter is not accurate with the LFE track because it's frequency response is not correct. It was said to adjust the output by 3 or 4 db. Does this mean I should set the sub to 78 or 79 db? This is where it sounds the best to me, but sometimes on movies the bass is very, very loud! This may be correct, but I was just wondering. So, to all the guys here, what do you do? Do you just set you sub up by ear on music, or do you use the test tones and an SPL meter - if so what settings do you use? ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

My guess would be that you can't turn the sub off. I think that if you set speakers to small, it forces you to have a sub. But I could be wrong! But, it may let you do it, and you just wouldn't have any bass! One note on small speakers vs large speakers. I have read so many debates on what it should be, I just thought I would share my personal experience. I have the RB5's, which in no way are considered full range. But in my setup, when I set them to small, there was a lot of low bass, but not much mid-bass punch. So I set all of my speakers to large. My receiver lets me still send all bass below 80 hz to the sub no matter what the speakers are set to. Since I have done this, the bass is much fuller, male voices sound deeper, and the directionality is much better. Just thought that I would share that with ya all. Just for all of you non-Arizonans - when I went to my car today after work (which is in Scottsdale) the temperature guage in my car said it was 116 outside! On the drive home it cooled to a chilly 112. But it's a dry heat! ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

Doug, Hello fellow Arizonan - I think most people in Arizona aren't replying because it is too hot to do anything. Everyone is just laying around by the pool. And everyone in California doesn't have electricity! I don't have the 3300, I have the 3801. And I don't think there is an exact way to do what you want. But I remember reading that my 3801 could disable the sub in direct mode. You lower the volume on the sub out, and it gets to -10. If you go down lower it says off. I don't know if your 3300 does the same thing, but it might be worth a shot. Also, my 3801 only remembers sound mode settings for each input. It only remembers channel levels for each sound field. So if I switch to DVD, it remembers that I was in DD, but it doesn't change the levels of the speakers. It changes the level of the speakers when I switch from DD to stereo, etc, across all inputs. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

Don't forget about the Denon 3801 - it replaces the 3300. It doesn't have a fan and doesn't have a heat problem. It is an excellent unit. Sound & Vision has a great review of it in the current issue. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

Actually, I think more of the manufacturers are going that route. I think Onkyo is also one of them. I think Yamaha still rates their receivers a little optimistically. For example, the RXV1000 is rated at 100 X 5 - Sound & Vision found it only had 78 X 5. The 3801, rated at 105 X 7 came up to 92 X 5 and 85 X 6. In all reality, the difference is only about 1 decibel, but it shows that the Denon power supply definitely has more reserves. It is also very unlikely that you would ever have the receiver driving all channels fully to that power - I know with Klipsch speakers I will never even be able to without going deaf. I think the way they rate them is that each channel is capable of 105W, and ideally it could deliver all of that at the same time - but I imagine the voltage from the wall outlet drops enough without a power conditioner that you could never hit it. I have also noticed that the same manufacturers lower lines, do pretty well in the labs. For example, some of the Onkyo lower models are rated at like 70W X 5 - and they deliver 70W X 5 with all channels driven. And their 85 X 5 still delivers 70 X 5. I think they just inflate the numbers as the model numbers go up without actually changing the power supply. What I think the Denons have over everyone else is that they have almost no noise in all modes, and their distortion levels are always very low. This is the first step in our "prefect" sound that we are all looking for. I have heard that Denon receivers are conservatively rated, and have a lot of headroom. Every Denon that Sound & Vision has tested in the lab has shown this. I know I quote S & V a lot, but they are one of the only magazines that actually lists out all of the measurements. ------------------ Thanks, Bryan "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603) Denon AVR 3801 RCVR Denon DVM 1800 DVD JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Klipsch RB5 - L&R Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub Monster Power Conditioner Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable