HornEd

tweeter to know that cluless is on the same

Well ygmn, have it your way... but what you are saying just isn't correct. For all intents and purposes, the speed of sound as it affects speakers in the same room is likely to be constant. The distance traveled by the sound is the variable. The direct sound from a monopole strikes the ear before the echoes can... your ear uses that split second difference to determine direction and timbre as a comparative analysis. You are obviously a bright person, why not invest a little time in learning about acoustics and psychoacoustics so we can have a more meaningful chat. The biography of Paul W. Klipsch is available on Amazon and the "White Papers" of Dr. Floyd E. Toole (the most respected authority in acoustics) are available at the Harmon International website: http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=default. We use professional sound equipment every day in my resort... and I have built quite a few music and theater rigs over the last fifty years. bipole, tripole and especially dipole speakers are built to provide an intensity of sound that overcomes audio impediments in lesser listening environment. The trade-off is that such speakers distort the potential for natural sound. IMHO, seven identical speakers would produce the best 7.1 sound for that given speaker... not a smaller version for a front center and an altogether different design for the surrounds. You might try using seven WDST speakers in a 7.1 system on your trail to acoustic truth. Happy trails, pard. -HornEd

oops, I intended it to be laer than this... -HornEd

Sorry, ymgn, but the speed of sound is constant and the distance the sound has to travel to hit your ears directly gets to your ear first and the echoes arrive a fraction of a second later and thats just enough to determine the direction and timbre. Thats what happens with monopoles. With multiple pole speakers, all you get is ricochet sounds that arrive at your ear at almost the same instant which destroys most of the critical aspects of processing the sound as a normal human being. The longer and wider the room, the more space monopoles have to show off their grandeur and one can always do what the theaters do, build a bigger restaurant and have it turned into another place. More later. -HornEd

BBB... I am a bit confused. I like live music and concerts, in fact we put them on at my resort. But to do so, takes mega bucks for professional sound equipment... way more than any of my Klipsch theaters or Khorn based music systems. So, "live" music reaches our guests ears after it has been miked, run through a dozen devices into a sound board, amplified with 3400 watts for the main speaker array... while the four monitors are amplified with only 1,400 watts. The point is that the sound is more electronic than acoustic. The only thing acoustic is the grand piano in the dining room... and for something other than dinner music that gets miked too! And Klipsch does provide a better "live" sound... in fact some of the groups who play here have been absolutely blown away when their albums are played on any Klipsch rig. Actually, the recordings are generally easier on these old ears... man, it's amazing how much noise a 5 person band can generate! It is also interesting how many dancers prefer talented DJ's playing over our pro sound equipment. We have a Lexicon that modifies vocals over 200 ways, and a half dozen EQ's, and three flavors of mikes, etc. So whether it's real of recorded... it's pushed through wires to hit your ears. -HornED

Sorry, ygmn, I had to attend to some business so this will be brief. A monopole is named so because its speaker(s) are aimed in one direction. Bipoles & dipoles are aimed in opposite directions. Tripoles have been made to have two speakers firing in opposite directions and a third firing toward the audience. WDST is a better version of the tripole (IMHO) because it aims the end speakers (horns) on a wedge angle into the room. Set up according to Klipsch instructions, the 2kHz and under cone is aimed at the audience and the 2kHz and over tractrix horns are sprayed immediately in front of and immediately behind the audience to achieve a wide reflective area before the sounds reach one's ear. In effect, it is not "one wall" of sound across 180 degrees but rather "three sound segments" Front 2kHz> : Mid <2kHz : Rear 2kHz> ... only one (Mid <2kHz) is aimed directly at the audience the others have to bounce back. Modern theaters put multiple monopole speakers along the theater walls on each side. Putting a center speaker (like an RC-7) gives you the effect of two widely spaced cone woofers with a 90x60 tractrix horn to make the midrange and highs up close and personal. Granted it takes a little more time, knowledge, a set-up disc, and an SPL meter to set up a proper home theater with monopoles... but the results is worth it. Setting up a home theater with WDST is easier right out of the box for folks who want instant gratification. It's a matter of choice... and I don't have a problem with the choice anyone makes for themselves. I just found what I believe to be a better way and am trying to share it. No brag... just fact. -HornEd

Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang m00n's avatar is my main...

Wheelman, I have to attend to some business so this will have to be brief. A monopole is named so because its speaker(s) are aimed in one direction. Bipoles & dipoles are aimed in opposite directions. Tripoles have been made to have two speakers firing in opposite directions and a third firing toward the audience. WDST is a better version of the tripole (IMHO) because it aims the end speakers (horns) on a wedge angle into the room. Set up according to Klipsch instructions, the 2kHz and under cone is aimed at the audience and the 2kHz and over tractrix horns are sprayed immediately in front of and immediately behind the audience to achieve a wide reflective area before the sounds reach one's ear. In effect, it is not one wall of sound across 180 degrees but rather three distinct sound "zones"... only one of which is aimed directly at the audience. Modern theaters put multiple monopole speakers along the theater walls on each side. Putting a center speaker (like an RC-7) gives you the effect of two widely spaced cone woofers with a 90x60 tractrix horn to make the midrange and highs up close and personal. Granted it takes a little more time, knowledge, a set-up disc, and an SPL meter to set up a proper home theater with monopoles... but the results is worth it. Setting up a home theater with WDST is easier right out of the box for folks who want instant gratification. It's a matter of choice... and I don't have a problem with the choice anyone makes for themselves. I just found what I believe to be a better way and am trying to share it. No brag... just fact. -HornEd

Hey, m00n, let me be the first to agree we don't agree and let it be! As for the kissing, I'd rather stick with my Swiss Miss if you don't mind! -HornEd PS: Your "Matrix" analogy creepified my participation and set me free!

Pour moi il est fini aussi! -HornEd

Wheelman, it sounds like you're setting it up like Avman did with his KSP-S6's. As long as you get direct waves from the horn and the woofer at the same time, most of the negative factors of WDST go away... and the rear firing over 2,000 Hz at the back wall creates the ambience... you are in better shape than using them as originally intended, IMHO. -HornEd

For the love of Klipsch, ygmn! There is so much sound in a modern 5.1 or 6.1 DVD that is lost to under-performing front centers and over-saturating side and rear effects speakers on conventional sound systems that once you hear a properly set up monopole system a person is not likely to go back. Heavy movie goers tell me that since they saw a premier movie in my Legacy Theater movie theater sound is crappy at best. When upwards of 75% of the total sound on a DVD is directed to your front center speaker why would you have anything less than your best performer for the speaker that has to work the hardest in HT? And lets face it, as great as the versatile RC-7 is it is a step down in sound to the elegant RF-7. But the RC-7 makes a truly great rear surround array. The horizontal orientation with two woofers at each end plus a 90x60 Tractrix horn in the center covers a sweet spot in a hurry. The ideal center between to RF-7s is an RF-7 that has been oriented to maximize its value as a horizontal speaker. Sure wish it was a special order option from Klipsch. Set up as a demo in an audio store, Three RF-7s in front array and three or four RC-7s in the rear array would blow away just about any other manufacturers demo. -HornEd PS: m00n, one thing Keith and I can agree on is that t2k does not = HornEd and HornEd doesn't = t2k... even in "The Tractrix!" I see now why the British ordered death to the Irish for playing, "the rising of the m00n" the theme song of Irish rebels. Hey, you aren't getting Irish on us for March 17th are you?

at which time she sliced four moles off her nose with a scalpel, spayed her shaggy hep cat and...

Not exactly true, WDST speakers are effectively tripoles that have a woofer that sends frequencies under about 2,000 Hz toward the sweet spot and two tractrix horns to spray everything over 2,000 Hz toward reflective surfaces rather than the audience. Thus the audience can get a sense of direction from sounds under 2,000 Hz and sounds above arrive at about the same time and confuse the ear and that passes for ambience enhancement. Therefore, WDST speakers do NOT spread the same sound over 180 degrees. I believe WDST to be better than other tripoles since there ends are tapered. Personally, I recommend speakers configured like the RC-7 for surrounds because the wider arc of the full-range woofers at each end of the cabinet provide a better dispersion cone to the sweet spot. The custom horizontalized KLF-30s (with the 12 woofers as close to each end as possible) in my Legend Theater provides an even better coverage angle and three such custom speakers provide a seamless rear array in a 30 circular theater. That creates a wall of timbre-matched sound that matches the three KLF-30s in the front array. There is no extra fuzzing over by tricked-up ear games. What you hear is what the audio engineer wants you to hear without the artificial ambience. As for your comment of wanting theater sound no one that has seen a 6.1 DVD in my Legend Theater would agree with you. The sound is far more realistic (No Rat Shack puns please) the speakers sound more alike because they are more alike and the ambience is as crisp as the audio engineers want it to be. -HornEd

what a life, what a wife... a brand new pram, old Khorns, Molson with a rubber nipple... err where's the nipple? And the mystery lady said,

Henry, the John Perch Society may take exception to your liberal phyching expedition with comrade Huck Fini just because their leader had a few cigarros cubanos stashed in the vintage Khorns he snagged on habana good time eBay. -HornEd

Keith, I respect your right to have an opinion... and to go "trash picking" in the archives to prove whatever point you are trying to make to whom ever cares enough to read what you have to say. You are not sucking me into any more "games" by baiting me with rhetoric. You've been a bad boy and I'm just not going to play with you anymore. -HornEd

dit dah didley from Clipped & Shorn who slipped on his double identity and fell on his

Hmm, Kev, you seem to be on the wrong side of cluless on that one... and she has georgie to back her up... not to mention a passionate crew of lady lurkers. =HornEd

cry out stuporifically... Head for the roundhouse, Klipschorns, fini can't corner you there without

cluless was counting cards and pulling at her Jersey

Before fini sneaks in one of his patented laugh lines... let me say that the next thing HornEd wants is the time to enjoy his four Klipschorns in walnut, four Belles in walnut... and one Swiss Miss aux naturel! -HornEd

the narcs "piped up" and seized him by the

As recently indicated on other threads, I am out of the "personal attack dog" mode. And, Avman, you know that I applaud the way you have used your KSP-S6's to create ambience with directionality by having the back side of the speakers hit the back wall as the front side hits the back of the heads of the audience. Go and be sad no more! -HornEd

Surround speakers have two roles... providing an ambience that contributes to the listeners enjoyment of movies (that's why there was background music played live in the silent movie days) and to provide increased realism of action appearing off screen. Placing the surround speakers provides more clear space to have sounds bounce off of hard surfaces in the room to provide a "curtain of background sound." The old THX approved surrounds were dipoles... and dipoles did not send any waves directly to the audience... but projected the sound away from the audience to have it bounce around and inundate the listener with the sound from all directions. When that happens, the ear cannot distinguish between a first sound and secondary (reflected) sounds... and so misinforms the brain that the sound is everywhere without direction or timbre. Most THX movie houses have been back on the monopole surround track for some years now. Multiple monopole rear arrays correctly set up create a seamless background of movie or music sound as styled by the audio engineer. Having 5.1 or 6.1 discrete channels provides a way for the audio engineer to mix in the degree of ambience or realism that is appropriate to the storyline. -HornEd