fire pinch

Well with only a 4" port... by the way is it flared? Anyway, just delete the Tempest woofer of your list now as it needs more ports area to perform at its best (at least two 3" flared ports). Now you have the Stryke AV-12, for the second most powerfull solution. But I would like it better with two 3" flared vents again but it depends with what kind of power you wish to feed it and what tuning point you choose for it. In a vented box, I would prefer the Shiva over the DPL12 because it will be a bit more powerfull above 20 Hz (up to 3 more dB with the proper amount of power for both subwoofers). Personally, I would prefer having more bass above 20 Hz, in the audible part than below 20 Hz, when you dont really hear it. The Shiva would be still good below 20 Hz compared to the DPL12, almost as good as it. The DPL12 is really meant to be in a closed enclosure with its low Fs. By the way, if you model your DPL12 flat to 20 Hz, this is anechoicaly. In room, expect to have a bump around 20 to 35-40 Hz depending of your room so be carefull if one of your goal is flat ROOM response. Of course, with a parametric EQ you can cure some valley or peaks in your room frequency response. My 200L Tempest is not EQed and is flat in room until 20 Hz (± 2dB) !!!!! My F3 in room is around 16 Hz. THANX GOD for my room! The response curve really didnt look like the same on WinISD Pro: flat until 40 Hz and F3 at 25,5 Hz So you see... *Updated*

Wow!!! Must ear that sub! But still, lets not forget that the Tumult has the XBL² motor technology... I even forgot it when I posted. Im in a hurry that TN reviews that Paradigm monster subwoofer Im really in a hurry also, to know whats the deal with the Tumult motor technology, to know how it will sounds near its Xmax. If some people have done some reviews about a sealed Tumult (I have seen some), most of the time, they dont use their Tumult at its maximum due to not enough power. Many use the Keiga 1000W plate amp with a Tumult and often, it is not enough if you want to use it at its maximum. I wonder what is the Sd and Xmax of the new Paradigm Servo subwoofer, just by curiousity It must be between 25 and 30 mm one way... Oh... and I dont compare ported/PR subs against sealed one if you thought that Im gonna build a PRed one. I finally decided to go with a sealed enclosure as Im curious to know what this woofer is ready to deliver by itself and the box will be very small too (2 cubic ft, Q of 0,65).

I wonder how the Signature will compare against a Tumult subwoofer...

Michael, heh! Thanx a lot for this comment! I wish I could take better quality pictures, but this is all what I can do with my Intel PC Camera And for the reason why I bought that Tumult... firstly to have a smaller subwoofer. But also... I cant hide, this is true also that more bass, more headroom is always welcome But the Tempest really satisfy me in bass power, and I figured out that later, if I build another one, this is possible to make a smaller enclosure for that woofer, even when ported. The proof that Im satisfied with the Tempest is that I wanna go SEALED for the Tumult this time. Im really sure that this woofer and 2400W of power can displace enough of air to make me satsfied for at least during the time I wait before buying the passive radiators and to make another enclosure Ear, Hmm I thought you knew where I lived and in fact, Im not NEAR you but not far either Im in the Quebec city. I dont know this time, after saying this if you will be more affraid of the distance between us

Same for me... I wish I could have more money! But Im a student again, so the money dont come so much. Subwoofers, I love, this is my passion! I eventualy would like to study in subwoofers, so I guess this would be in the engineering department at university. But engineer in what... electronics? Physics? I did my DEC in sciences (PRE-university) at college, we call that here "sciences purs", Im sure Formica and The_Ear know what I mean. Doing this kind of studies and after, you go directly to university. But this year, I didnt feel ready for going at university and I thought about doing something else in order to be more prepared in what I would like to do so Im now doing electronics, again at college. This is cool because with the electric physics I did in sciences + the electronics Im doing, I begin to understand more and more TOTALY the physics in a woofer, but not enough to build myself or to design totaly a woofer. I think about doing one more year in electronics (til next summer) and after going at university in something like electronics (to be an electronic engineer) or in physics... I dunno exactly yet. So I'll be able to start designing woofers after and why not, to compete and to release bang for the buck new sub-human woofers for all the bass hungry people out there I can always dream... this would be so cool one day if I'd be able to build a woofer especialy for The_Ear, according to his specs at the best possible price!

Oréo, Just give the Tempest the same style of 12 spokes frame than the Tumult, which is by the way like the one found in the AV-15 woofer and it would look like a better performer If that was the case, would you consider it? If you say no... damn, its hard to beleive from you Its like if Id say no for an SVS Ultra I dont know but I find that the Tempest is really a benchmark for any other subwoofers out there for your money. Even more than an AV-15, because you dont need more than a 300-400W amp to be above 115 dB (depends of the room but in general, you can have this) from 20 Hz and up! Not that an AV-15 sub with a good amp perform less than a Tempest sub, the AV-15 is just a better woofer. An AV-15 alone offer you more bang for the buck, but when you think about the amp too, this is not the same thing anymore... Please, if you find a better woofer+amp for the money, tell me, Id like to know You oreille are too rude with the Tempest, cmon! You'd be surprised to know how it can perform... I invite you to come to my house hearing it, your not to far away from me? Moreover, Id be very happy to know you in person

Here is for you a picture of the Tempest vs the Tumult

YESSS lets start the RICE!!! But seriously, I really think you will win... just imagine, you have you enclosure ready! You just have to buy an amp and the same day all is ready and voilà! Even if you receive your amp 3-4 days after I receive mine, I will have to take a chainsaw to cut the wood pannels fastly and to tape all the corners inside the enclosure with adhesive papers for air leaks in order to keep up with you! LOL!

hahahaha!!!! You have a HUGE point l'oreille, I know this is very ridiculous. I should be more bashed for this!! It's why I think for the moment to take out the Tempest woofer of the Tempest enclosure and to put the Tumult there, before having the amp. Sounds almost as ridiculous because of only 300W of power, but at least... hmm well, at least the woofer will be used a little Im very very curious to know how much power I can get if I do that, with the micro 300W plate amp... certainly above 100 dB, but above 110dB? Im gonna expericence this tomarrow during my "foutre rien" time... Frankie, You took a good decison! Theorically, you should get more outpout with two AV-15s compared to one Tumult. Because Ive never heard any XBL² subwoofers, and also because I dont really know how to really compare an XBL² sub against another one which doesnt feature any XBL² technology, I wonder how two AV-15 would compare against one Tumult in CLEAN output. Hard to say when you compare two woofers with a totally different motor structure technology. Still, for the cost you pay for two AV-15 + a powerfull amp, you really get a lot for your money, more than a Tumult sub Im sure. How much did you pay for your two AV-15 subs (amp or amps included) ?

Haha! Those woodworking tools ARE sharped up but the amp isnt sharped... Im still thinking a lot of what kind of enclosure I will choose for the Tumult. The amp will certainly be bought in one or two weeks. If I choose to go with a sealed box, then I think I will be able to be ready for early December, with a nice review! I still would like a lot a PRed Tumult but the resulting size of the enclosure IS BUGGING ME!

So much of emotions that I cant even say how much happy I am! I just received a big UPS package this afternoon and I could see on it 68 pounds! So I took rapidly a knife, to cut nervously all the top of the package, at the point to cut my fingers! Then I saw what was inside the box! This is the first time Ive seen WOOD, which is used to make the woofer more protected during the transport! Normally you often see some stuffing materials, like foam particules, "bubble platic" (dont know how to say it!) but this time... no! A wood board screwed on 4 other cylindrical piece of woods which were around the woofer. Am I the only one who have seen this type of packaging? I wonder... After unpacking the big carton box, I took out the woofer and OHHHHhhh what a heavy one! Its weight shocked me compared to the Tempest, literally. And finally, what did I do after... puting the woofer on the enclosure I just made two days ago?? Noooo... and I doubt I will be able to do that before December. I must buy a QSC PLX Pro amp of 2400W to power it, and also, the passive radiators if I choose to make an enclosure with two other 18" holes. But more I think about it, more Im toward a sealed enclosure instead of going to the dark side! My first goal with that new woofer was to place it in a small enclosure, way smaller than my Tempest one. More power? No... I was really satisfied of what the Tempest could do, beeing near 120 dB when pushed hard, at not the best location. So its why I think that a sealed Tumult could be good for me. I would have enough bass from a woofer which is able to displace so much air and also, superb transient response. But yeah, this is true... having more bass is still a good thing! For the moment, Im thinking of swapping the Tempest for the Tumult in the Tempest enclosure, just for the heck of it. I know that I wouldnt have more power but I think I would get better bass quality... but I dont know how would be the FR curve in a big enclosure like that, tuned to 18.8 Hz. Will have to find out before trying anything Finally, you know, there are not a lot of Tumult pictures on the web nowadays... so I thought about taking some for you. I took some pictures of that ubber beast with my superb MIND BLOWING 1.3 mpixel Intel PC camera lol! The pictures are not excellent but they show you at least some other faces of that monster. They are in a JPG format anyway, so I cant do any miracles heh! If you dont see the pictures, I included them in the zip file attached to this topic... Here we go Tumult1.zip

I know Dustin is right... its because the first time I modeled a 3 to 4 cubic ft Tumult with passive radiators, I just wrote in WinISD 2500g + added mass instead of just writing the added mass if more mass is wanted. So in that time, my enclosures were smaller... I just saw my mistake by modeling with other softwares Today, I modeled some Tumult enclosures. With a Ql of 10 and no fill, I come up with a 4 cubic ft box with two Stryke PR2500 without any more mass. This would give me an anechoic F3 of about 19.5-20.0 Hz. Strangely, the Fb would be about the same, around 19-19.5 Hz. The cube would be about 22.5" (all sides, external dimensions). A 5 cubic ft box with the same PRs would be so nice too (better group delays), but the box would have to be too much big for my taste. I could add more mass to that 4 cubic ft box, but the price would go up... hmm not by much I guess, I should try that other option . I really would like to have something smaller than my big Tempest box *Update*: I think that a 4 cu ft enclosure with 2 Strykes PR2500+500g on each one would be nice if I considere my size requirement and because of a lower tuning, the bass quality would be nearer of a 5 cu ft enclosure this way... Whats your opinion on this Dustin?

You are right Dustin about a 5 cubic ft enclosure, that was a big mistake from me in my first post. I seek for a 4-5 cubic ft enclosure with the 2500 g PRs, to tune the Tumult at about 18 Hz. Im modeling more and more enclosures since a few days and I will come up again here with my final decision. Im stillt thinking again about a sealed box, I have in mind to make a sealed box FIRST, to see how the Tumult would sound like and after, to make a PRed enclosure if I want more deep bass The sealed box would have a Qtc of around 0.6 and it would be small, something I would like very much after all (for the size). Moreover, my room boost very well the low frequencies (see how is my Tempest with two ports blocked, in my Tempest tread page 2).

lolll!!! This would be so weird to be true I really didnt think that I'd have that much replies and view in my Tempest tread if you thought about it when you did your post Even with so much efforts from me, I dont think that Im gonna be able to have a tread with so much replies or views... especially not with a Valentine hot dog tread in the subwoofer section of this forum LOL! Aaaah but we never know I wonder how will hit my next Tumult tread which will show some photos of the woofer, some test results... Anyway, I shouldnt post about the Tumult for a big while because I dont even have my amp yet and my PR's! Im sure that Formica will be able to post about his AV-15 (test results) before I can post mine At least, he has his woofer... his PR's too? Just having the PR's would be a big advantage over me for the moment

Tumult is supposed to come this week!!! Most likely on Friday! YAAAAAAAAA Now Im in a big dilemmmma and I wonder if I will be able to get the 18" PRs before December... Stryke doesnt seem to have them in stock anymore... So Im thinking, why not trying a sealed Tumult for now? But the thing is that Im acustomized to ported subs and I wonder if I will get a good feeling with a sealed Tumult If the sub will roll off at 30 Hz, I think that I will not like that. In the other way, my room still boost surprinsingly very deep bass, so this can be a success too... *Update*: I just saw my FR curves results in the Tempest tread and when two ports are blocked (so like a sealed box), it seems that the bass extend very well and the roll-off point seems almost like not there. But beeing a box that big, when sealed, the Qtc of that Tempest is certainly near 0.5. I had in mind more a Qtc of around 0.65 to 0.7 for the Tumult so the final results will most likely not be that bad after all... Still aaaaah, I would like a PRed sub This is just those waiting delays for the PR's that make me anxious!

Just for starting, an Adire Tumult sub would outdo the JL 13W7 in home, air displacment wize in case you dont know this. The Tumult is capable of linearly 5.1 liters of air (15" with 34mm of one way LINEAR excursion). Also the Tumult has the XBL2 motor technology, which give it a clear advantage in clean and loud SPL. The Tumult, at 2mm or 20mm will still sound the same. At 28mm of Xmax one way, it will have only 3% of distortion, so not even audible! And some of us, home subwoofer lovers, prefere earth shaking bass from a subwoofer than mid-bass. After all, a TRUE subwoofer should only help your other piece of audio gear where they are less capable and to go down to a solid 20 Hz, and not a 20 Hz at -5dB. That is, a true subwoofer for me. The W7 would be insane in car, but in home, why not looking at a Tumult which would perform more, and cost less! (correct me if Im wrong about this for the price) And now, the JL you compared to the Tempest. Well... can you tell us more about the box dimensions, their tuning points (if they are ported) or their Qtc (if sealed)? Was the JL able to be louder @16,20,25 Hz than the Tempest? What is MORE loud clean bass to you... more mid-bass? More punch? The Tempest, let me tell you, can have a LOT of punch if wanted. Lets make a tuned box where there is a bump of 2 or 3 dB around 30 and 50 Hz for the Tempest and lets see after if it can impress you with punchy bass! Often, when we compare 2 differents subwoofers, its all about their designs. Also, just wondering... what is the total cost of the Tempest sub and the JL audio sub (the one you compared against the Tempest)? If your friend made a HUGE Tempest box, chances are good that he chose the EBS alignment, which is not impressive in the punch department... *Edit*: I just modeled some JL15W3 and they seem to have a little advantage over the Tempest. Just the woofer itself can displace a bit more air than the Tempest (2.81 L vs 2.55 L)and I got surprised by its Fs which is about 21.8 Hz for a car woofer. Hmm, can be a great woofer for home use, but how much does it cost? Two times the price of a Tempest? STILL, that JL woofer shouldnt be THAT more powerfull than the Tempest, shouldnt even be very noticable. However, it depends of what type of alignments, what type of enclosure you choose for each other... Manuel, "They are optimized to "kick" at relatively high frequencies because the small space (in the car) will help them to go to the lower octave, on a house, they usually don't go low." I completely agree, most of the time, this is really true!

Woaw, very beautifull looking woofer! I think that this is the best AV-15 picture Ive ever seen! Other AV-15 pictures I saw before didnt show enough how sharp the AV-15 looks like. What kind of camera do you have? And BTW, didnt u tell us that you have a 750 or 800W Pro amp to power that woofer? You will be SO impressed of how much that AV-15 can pump compared to your Energy subwoofer

Hell YEAH!!!! I want to say THANK you all for beeing so active in my tread! You are so great people to talk with! This gonna be maybe the biggest subwoofer tread in the Klipsch forum!!!!! When my Tumult sub will be finished and that Im gonna do a tread about it (review), I hope to get as much posts and maybe another record LOL! Swerv, Im in a hurry to see that review like all people who really want to know how good is the new Klipsch PM Ultras compared to the 5.1! Keep us posted

Oohhh! haha! Sorry, I didnt see that you double posted!!!

Suggestion for a sub... I enter into the topic and then BANG!!!! Absolutely a lot of informations! If you want some people to help you, you may want to bring more details of what you are looking for...

omg I really didnt understand what you said exactly l'oreille... Damn english! But I guess that this is sarcastic humour Maybe Im too much tired presently so I get mixt-minded easily? Gotta read that again tomarrow when my head will be "reposed"! LOL

The PW2200 v.2 can really go that low? Still the RSW-15 has some good extension. The new PW-2200 which begin to roll off at 25Hz? Hmmm... woaw! I would say... that new v.2 is really improved! Must hear it

Yeah, maxing out a a Radio Shack SPL meter with a PM 5.1 sub is pretty unbeleivable! I really wonder how he got this kind of SPL

Ear, Those yes and no, this is with the new released PW-2200 (v.2) ?

Oh my god!!! When Im looking at how many people viewed this topic, this is one of the most if not the most viewed topic on this forum in the subwoofer section! Keep bumping up the number of posts! heheeh