Delicious2
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Posts posted by Delicious2
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On 5/11/2019 at 5:16 PM, Slonomo said:
I am getting bass now but not as much as I would expect. I am listening to "older" recordings so I'm sure this is contributing. Do these speakers need to be "broken in"? They are sounding better the longer I play them.
What did you change that made it better? By "serial numbers" being off do you mean that 1 top section was paired with the other bass bin? Wouldn't think that would make much difference. I got good bass pretty quickly when I first got Khorns. I guess I think that it is us that does much of the "breaking in" especially if you're not used to horn loaded bass as I was not. That being said, the quality and when called upon - quantity of bass with my active K402/Khorn blend tuned to my room is unsurpassed in my experience. And that's with only one real good corner.
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4 hours ago, Chris A said:
There are other user tweaks besides the aforementioned DIY trim customizations for the bass bins and K-402s:
- Using other 2" throat diameter compression drivers including: TAD TD-4002, FaitalPRO HF20AT, HF200; BMS 4592ND (dual diaphragm); JBL 2445, 2446; Radian 950PB, 950BePB; EV DH1A, etc.
- Additional damping material applied to the bass bin front panel to reduce nearfield reflections and further smooth mid-bass frequency response.
- Rotating the K-402 horn forward and down (via releasing the K-402 horn from its mouth attachments) to facilitate reducing the overall Jubilee height and further flatten overall phase response
- DSP crossover setting customization (including crossover filters) to integrate the above-mentioned compression drivers and to dial-in with measurements taken in-room, for instance:
So that's what we're doing! All I know is it sounds great. What effect does it have on the Jube bass bin to obstruct the top of the mouth somewhat with the lowered K402? I'll definitely be working on adding damping panels on my mongrel lowered K402/TAD 4002/Khorn bass setup.
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59 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:
How do you like your N-Core amps?
Haven't critically listened to them yet. I've got one driving the bass in my center channel Chris and I have been attempting to tune.
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On 5/4/2019 at 12:42 PM, dubai2000 said:
Looking forward to your full range impressions. May I ask what you will be comparing them too?
Got 2nd monoblock built up and playing. I'll be comparing them to Trends TA 10.2 class T, VTL Tiny Triode PP tube monoblocks and First Watt SIT2.
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On 4/26/2019 at 1:24 PM, stoka said:
The Ncore is actually ofc one of the best meassuring Class-D amp's on the market. If not the best.
Unfortunately I couldn't hear one yet. The only thing some peeps are mentioning is, that they sound a bit "boring".
But like I said, never heard one, so can't rate this...
I received a pair of Hypex Nc400 monoblock kits last week. Built one up easily except a wire on the input cable harness detached so I used the harness from the other kit and it worked. I'll re-solder the first input cable and build up the other kit then try them doing different jobs in my systems (bass, treble, full range) and report after a while. Initial impression is that they're very well made.
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5 hours ago, Chris A said:
In my experience, amplifier slew rate differences are audible. I'd look there. Raw wattage out doesn't seem to be as good an indicator of the audible differences, IME. Perhaps this is why the better class D amplifiers sound so good also since their bandwidth is typically filtered on the output stage to filter out the switching frequencies and their harmonics--typically in the 100 kHz range and above.
Chris
Interesting white paper from the makers of one of the better Class D amp modules: https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/an_wp/AN_UcD_and_IMD_DIM_slewrate.pdf
My take-away for non class D amps:
"An amplifier with moderate slew rate that remains perfectly linear until it actually slew limits is a much better amplifier than one with a huge slew rate that starts distorting much earlier"
And for class D
"Slew rate in class D amplifiers is completely unrelated to that found in linear amplifiers. The input stage is a comparator with the 400kHz carrier at its input. The "slew rate" is limited by the output filter. Apply a voltage step from -Vcc to +Vcc to the output filter and look at the output. The bandwidth limiting action of the filter necessarily limits the dV/dt found there. That doesn't mean that the filter or anything else has gone non-linear. It's just that the bandwidth is limited, nothing more, nothing less. Slew rate in a class D amplifier is a completely linear effect. Here, power bandwidth equals small signal bandwidth by definition, because there is no non-linear effect involved."
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19 hours ago, mark1101 said:
On my MCM, I have a MAC 206 (6 channel amp) driving the 510, 402, and XII on both sides with 120 wpc each. Then, 900 wpc on the MWMs, and 550 wpc on my 684 subs (with QSC PLX2 amps).
But..........I don't play it very loud. Still I found having this kind of power brings out an extremely clear and authoritative presentation from all I have tried over the years........and I have had many different configurations. So although the power may not be required, I find there is still a good reason in what to consider powering your Klipsch with.
This has been a fascinating topic for me for years I realize without really pursuing it. While I don’t doubt that your long and varied experience is very real Mark, I must wonder if there is any electro/mechanical/acoustic reason WHY it might sound better to have amounts of power we Absolutely Never use?
ignore this please if too much of a sidetrack
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On 4/24/2019 at 11:41 PM, Dave A said:
I had a friend over who wanted me to crank the MCM 1900 up as loud as my 200 WPC would do. So I got my hearing protection out and turned it up all the way. I will not do that with this set and if I ever do use those amps wide open it will be with these bad boys outside. It is a different ball game. My friend asks me to do the turn them all the way up thing on these I will refuse.
Why?
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Recently experimenting with a K402 in the fireplace for dialogue in movies/TV, 2.0 and 2.1 using a summed setting in the Xilica 4080, DTS neo6 etc. from my older prepro (Nuforce AVP16) and true 5.1 SACD, DVD-A, and Blu-ray.
Thanks for the links to PWKs writing sixspeed. I note he recommends a relatively close match of efficiency between center speaker and the flanking L and R. I have that with matching k402s in mids and treble but not bass. A couple small DR woofers are no match for the KHorn bass bins but I’ll measure and adjust with REW and Xconsole to see what I can hear.
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The other enjoyable sensation is one of pressure. The feeling of pressure waves, of the room being pressurized. My 10" sub rolling off below 40Hz does it in the close confines of the car but in the HT? DTS10! There's something primal and thrilling/scary about those sensations - perhaps imprinted in our genes from thousands of years of such natural occurences - waterfalls, ocean waves, migrating herds of beasts, and of course thunder storms!
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Current settings in the Xilica are the same ones used for the BMS 4592ND on the K402 in the basement but with the FH1 horn loaded bass bin.. So I know these can be dialed in a lot more. And yes I disconnected the tweeters in the MG 60s.😉
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Well, throwinig any cautions about DR bass to the wind in the interest of using what I have to advance my experiment I repurposed my MIchael Green 60s and one of his racks to put some DR bass beneath the 402:
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Thanks for reviewing this movie Chris. It had been on my playlist for a while and I finally watched it the other night. I was 10 years old when his show premiered in 1968 - a little old for it but I remember liking it and especially my dear younger sister loving it. I was struck by Mr Roger's description of his "door opening" encounter with a group of children. In particular the loving and teaching at the same time. When the first child described the ear coming off his toy tiger in the wash Rogers didn't say "oh, how sad" or "I can sew it back on" but "that's what happens to toys sometimes but that's not what happens to us" - reassuring them and making a distinction between the make believe world and the real world much as his show did.
"We have a broken culture (in this regard)--apparently perceived as hostile by our youngest members...hostile to their own sense of who they are."
"Broken" if our goal is to raise secure, emotionally and mentally stable adults, not so broken if the goal is to raise insecure, easily manipulated, emotionally unstable consumers always looking for satisfaction in the next thing they buy...
I"m glad that social message wasn't too heavy handed. Instead I got a sense of hope and wonder!
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13 hours ago, richieb said:
=== of any set up issue I’ve had with Jubes a listening hole in the center position has not been one of them. On the contrary I’ve always been amazed at the ghost center that one could easily be fooled a speaker is Not there. Speakers are spread about 23 feet on centers and not shoved in the corner a KHorn style but against the wall and toed with the 402 crossing about 8-10 feet behind the listening position. This position is perfect for this particular room —
Thanks for running out your different experience. How far away do you sit from them? How far to the back wall?
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Ah, so the baffle front (got make sure it's not me that's baffled 😁) eliminates the need for absorption within a few feet of the horn? Good to know I could switch to the KPT-305 box. Cutting, finishing and attaching some plywood pieces for the baffle seems very doable. Now I just need some hand holding to cut my horn and mount the woofers 😝😱
There is clearly no good place for a bass box to go with this layout...
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16 hours ago, Chris A said:
But...you'll need the woofers in the K-402 on off-axis ports in order to have horn-loaded bass and mid-bass.
So the off-axis ports are a different cut of the K-402 than you did with yours? I couldn't switch to the sealed 305 box at will?
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16 hours ago, Chris A said:
...K-402 with short baffle transition extensions to transition from the K-402 flange face to the brick masonry.
What might this be/look like? Absorbing batts of 2" thick Roxul Rockboard extending out from the flange face covering the brick?
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5 minutes ago, Chris A said:
Too bad--it's a tailor-made application for an MEH--with a baffle front instead of a box, sort of reminiscent of this sort of idea (but maybe just large enough to span the opening of the fireplace itself):
Say more MEH master! What would happen to the back wave of the woofers without a box to seal them into? I have 2 of the 305 boxes you may remember...
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Flutes definitely sound more "open" with this arrangement 😄
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Won't be needing that wood anymore 😁
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Gotta get some real room treatments/absorption around the horns too! I have some half baked idea about fabricating absorbing panels that attach to the horn's predrilled mouth edges...
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Tried several things to get around the hole in the center effect of K402/Khorns 22 feet apart sitting 12 feet away but they probably really need a center. Not quite ballsy enough to cut one of my K402 and make a MEH, I found a way to mount one in the fireplace which allows the projection screen to still pivot down into place. Now what to do about bass?
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Thanks for the illustration Chris!
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Thanks Chris.
11 minutes ago, Chris A said:...stereo that has sufficient stereo separation properties (i.e., extremely wide with a hole-in-the-center effect), the center channel creates a seamless wall of sound with the Jubs on each side--that spans the entire front of the room, with a phantom soundstage image that is much larger.
and how do you achieve that center channel from stereo 2 channel music?
thanks for the much fuller explanation with only this question lingering.
Subconscious Auditory Effects of Quasi-Linear Phase Loudspeakers
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
On the Campbell quote, maybe I need to read a bit more of his writing to understand his viewpoint, but, I immediately find myself wondering if for Campbell and his friend "the best things" ARE the best BECAUSE they transcend thought. That "things" (experiences) which challenge our ability to think about them, which can't easily be encoded in thought or word are by that definition "better" or "best" BECAUSE they challenge us to expand our thinking about them and expand our communicating about them.
I put on my copy of Fear of A Blank Planet DVD-A and immediately thought I heard the "harshness" you speak of. A question is how much harshness, aggressiveness, and distortion is intentional, especially if the recording is being mixed and mastered on playback systems that aren't flat amplitude/phase response? This is particularly interesting in this case where you have Steven Wilson having so much creative control from writing to playing to mixing to mastering of FoABP and his many other stereo and surround creations. More that most other musicians, SW may have a more fully controlled and realized intent for the listener. Are we straying from his intent for our listening experience by eliminating distortions that were present during the mixing/mastering?
Perhaps I'm being a bit insincere on that line of argument. Ultimately, we can't know exactly the creator's intention for our listening experience. Also, one person's unpleasant harshness is another's exhilarating aggressiveness. Personally I love PT and Steven Wilson's music and want to enjoy listening not have to "steel" myself against it. So, I'll continue to follow you down the road of flat amplitude/phase response horn loaded systems since at bottom - it sounds better to me. What can be said of "subconscious auditory effects"? Not much unless we invoke words about the inadequacy of words - such as "ineffable" or notice the indirect evidence as you have observed - I find myself listening more and with better attention and enjoyment.