moray james
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Posts posted by moray james
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LaScala for home had K33 LaScala pro has K43. Cornwall uses K33 the pro version (forget the model number) uses K43. K33 goes a little lower handles less power. K43 does not play as low but takes way more power. Pick what you like, as always YMMV.
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1 hour ago, MarcusRider said:
I stuck a tape down what I assume were the ports (two port hole looking things at the bottom of the face of it) and hooked it on the back lip and measured to the front edge and it was 5". Would that mean I have it a Rev 1 CF-3?
Below is the information directly from Klipsch on how to determine which of the 3 versions your CF-3/4 are.
EPIC Series Production versions – Rev.1, Rev.2, Rev.3
Rev.1 – Start of Production in Spring of 1994
- These models had 5" long port tubes
- Networks used OFC (monster cable looking) clear jacket wiring.
- Horns in these models were gray in color.
Rev.2 – Fall of 1994
- These models had shorter 2.5" long port tubes (to raise the box tuning)
- Networks had a component / value change to correct for the new ports. (The network wire was still the OFC used in Rev.1.)
Rev.3 – Summer of 1995 to end of production in 1996
- These models had new lighter cone woofers (new vendor) (these cones aren’t nearly as stiff as the originals and can be deformed much easier by pressing on them)
- Networks were changed to compensate for the new woofers
- Change in network wiring to colored 16ga. like what is used in Legend KLF networks
- New horn material that was 20% glass and was painted black.
Serial number decoding for EPIC Series models (or any Klipsch model made from 1990-1997(?))
Production Years Description Example
1990-1997(?) DOY Y2Y1 # # # # (135791234)
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3 minutes ago, MarcusRider said:
Would I just take the front cover off and stick a measuring tape down the tube hole?
yes, that would work perfectly.
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15 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:
Have him go back to electrostats. One and done.
a layer of dynamat on the back side of the horn will help with horn lens vibration. High efficiency horns will show up amplifier noise so don't blame the messenger.
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if you can audition the Tannoy Revolution XT series. Both of the floor stand models have very good bass. I like the XT series better as the versions get smaller, I have both the XT Mini and the XT6. My XT Mini took a full six weeks of every day play probably a min of 6 hours play a day to fully break in and make respectable bass. The XT Mini has a 19mm tweeter diaphragm all the other models use a 25mm tweeter diaphragm. Get the smallest model which will meet your output level requirements. My preference is for the XT Mini. With correct set up burn in and top quality stands the XT Mini will surprise you but you will likely want some subs to fill in the low end.
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2 hours ago, VDS said:
I have changed the Cornwall horn to a Elipitrac horn with a BSM 4592 driver. This was an unquestionable improvement, not just a change. I can’t imagine anybody hearing this horn/driver combo and not preferring it to my original k52, 1” horn. Just looking to see if people have found woofers that are also an improvement from the 60yr old(?) k33 design.
Thus is a technical/modification forum, I see so many people told to leave the designs alone. As great of an engineer PWK was, I feel like there have to be ways to incorporate new ideas, designs to to improve the sound. I understand every change is not always improvement, but some changes certainly can be improvements.
thanks for the response though ,dialogue is always beneficial. Ted
The Chorus/Chorus ll use a better Pro woofer but it requires more power than the K33 does. So if you want to use a small flea power single ended amp the CW with the K33 is your best option but if you have or are willing to use a more substantial amp the Chorus ll is a better option (it is the factory replacement/upgrade to the CW). Since you don't listen at high levels and if you are good with the CW size then stick with them and purchase a pair of subs to get your bass extension. get yur CW up so the mid horn is centred at your seated ear level for best stage and image.
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Don B. Keele Jr. was employed by PWK a very long time ago and Paul asked him to take a look at the CW and evaluate it. Don did and his recommendation was to leave it alone as Paul had nailed the design. There are woofer swaps you can make to impact performance you can search the archives. I would suggest you purchase a pair of subs. If you are willing to purchase a set of subs I would recommend you also purchase a set of Chorus ll (larger and better mid horn) and sell the Cornwalls.
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2 hours ago, RandyH000 said:
the k61 horn and Chorus II crossovers are specific to the klipsch Chorus 2 -
the mid horn in the Chorus ll is also used in the Quartet the Forte ll and several other pro Klipsch loudspeakers. the driver is common in all the home speakers using this horn only the number changes and you can run a ti diaphragm in them.
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So very sorry to read this loss, my condolences to the Crites family and friends. Our community has lat a wonder and supporting man. Rest in peace Bob.
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best of luck with your sale and I hope that you have found your forever loudspeakers in the Cornwall 4!
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Klipsch state the KG4 response as plus/minus 3db from 38Hz to 20KHz,, so the box is tuned around 40 Hz. You can build a larger cabinet and tune it a little lower. You can measure for the system impedance and consider the largest impedance peak as your cut off for the woofer and tune the vent a little below that frequency say 2 - 3 Hz. lower.
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There are all kinds of speakers designed this way for this reason, more two ways than three because uninformed consumers who are convinced "that can't be right" and manufacturers decide it is easier to go with the flow than to spend time and money to educate and have a "funny looking" speaker on the market. Take any typical small two way with a dome and flip it upside down and listen or you can lay it on its side with the dome to the outside to gain the extra distance same results. Even with a three way you are still within the 1/4 wave distance rule so there is no penalty only bonus.
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3 hours ago, Audio28 said:
Hey everyone - this is my first post. I hope it's to the right area!
I poked a hole in one of my Chorus ii woofers and am looking to replace it. Can anybody help, please?
Best regards,
Mark.
just repair the hole and carry on. A Chorus woofer is the same woofer used in a Chorus ll.
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13 minutes ago, MeloManiac said:
It beats the HK on every level, except volume. Mind you, my hk is in original state and over 40 years old.
I do miss a built in phono stage in the Leben, though.
sounds like you ought to spend the coin and have your HK rebuilt as it won't be hard to sell with all new caps in it no matter what you think! Forty year old caps gonna sound like crap warmed up!
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55 minutes ago, Maximus89 said:
Yes he can recap the Epic speakers but that's all he'll do on them. Not sure what I'd get with SoniCaps or if there's even a need to recap. These caps on the CF don't go out of spec like the vintage heritage caps im told?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
you would be installing better quality capacitors and or resistors than what were used in the stock networks. If you think the stock caps/resistors are fine I am not going to attempt to convince you otherwise so leave them alone.
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1 hour ago, Maximus89 said:
Deans done? Well through the years it seems he always eventually returns. JEM only does heritage according to email response, so a no go on the Epic line of speakers. I wonder if they consider the Forte/Chorus/KLF/KG speakers heritage?
I'll probably hold off on the crossover work for these cf3s and spend a lot of time researching going active. If anything id like a Jubescala set up with some split la scalas/k510. Easiest route to meet my 2 way desire. The cf3 would need a new motorboard cut out or cut into the original for the 2 " wider K510 plus start active crossover from scratch which i have no idea where to begin.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
have you contacted Bob Crites? If this has been suggested then please carry on.
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Quote"What would you suggest given that limitation?"
simple, live with it and enjoy them because it is what it is by choice. When/if you have fewer limitations then you will have more options. Life is good and you did a nice job giving these speakers a new lease on life.
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6 minutes ago, MicroMara said:
A distinction is made between linear and maximum possible excursion. The linear excursion describes the condition with acceptable distortions. If the diaphragm is deflected further, we are in the non-linear range, i.e. the voice coil then leaves the linear range of the magnetic field.
a simple rule of thumb to establish the approximate linear travel of a driver is to consider it to be 1/3 of the thickness of the top plate. This is a reasonable number to go by.
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9 minutes ago, yamahaSHO said:
It's caulk, not glue. I would not call that welding. I've seen your bracing before (pretty sure you posted it for me in another thread recently) and it's nice, but I never thought the speakers sounded bad to begin with, so I did a more simple solution to improve what was there. No, I don't plan to remove the bracing.
I have put mass on the horn and will put some on the bass driver before closing up, but it was for whatever improvement it offers since I was already rebuilding them to go past my lifetime... Which probably won't be a problem considering they had never had any treatment to protect the wood before I got them.
In the end, these should be better than they have ever been and I don't want to get sucked down the modding hole... I have cars and SxS' for that. That said, these speakers will be used in my workshop. Room acoustics is what's going to be the problem here. However, if I move to a place that won't support my La Scalas, I'd be happy to use these in my living room as I have a capable sub already.
my "welding" comment was not directed at you Jason but at folks who did not really think about what they were doing. I do appreciate the difference between calk and glue as well as the manner in which you applied the caulking but many would be modifiers do not. I don't plan on removing my brace work either.
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30 minutes ago, yamahaSHO said:
It's a thin bead on the outside, they should remove fairly easy. The wood where it was caulked was also treated with polyurethane so in the case they need removed, it won't pull wood. Nothing poor about the choice and I am glad you made it clear to me that they are mine to do as I please. My bracing will be difficult to remove as well, maybe I should not have done that.
No, I don't want to remove them ever again. They made it 38 years prior to this...
Jason you put thought into what you did and you considered things and that makes a big difference. I made my comment to give others perhaps less cautious pause to consider prior to welding their horns and drivers into their cabinets with no easy way to remove later. I have seen some unbelievable things over the years. Here is a small photo of the brace work inside of one of my four H3 cabinets. Not going to remove that but a lot of thought went into these before any wood was ever cut. That is 3/4" square English White Oak (a very stiff hardwood) and it forms an all panel matrix brace structure. These Heresy can make bass up on 21" tall four post stands. In the photo of the finished cabinet on its stand the flash lights up the F11 Acoustical felt over the woofer and around the horns, placed over the woofer it acts as a very effective acoustic filter which permits bass to pass but eats up out of band past crossover woofer output so past 750Hz. you are listening to ht lower range of the mid horn and not to a combination of the woofer and horn.
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3 hours ago, yamahaSHO said:
I elected to caulk as there isn't much flange on the horns to put a gasket on, and I didn't want it poking out.
and if you didn't want to be able to easily remover the horn later. that's not good but if that is what you want fine. I just wanted others to know that this is a poor choice for some good reasons. Please note that if you are happy with your choice then I support you in your choice, they are your speakers and you can do with them what you like. I post this only for others so they might think twice and consider the consequences when they decide to do this. enjoy and carry on.
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15 hours ago, Alex Defender said:
I'd like to cross the A55-G at 6-700 Hz, so I'm thinking to use a horn which have a Fc of 450Hz, is a Fostex H400.
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/woodhorn.pdf
What do you think? Thanks
Well I think that right now you don't have much experience. A k700 works well at those crossover frequencies look at the Heresy look at the Forte for prime examples of this. I think you need to buy some horns and experiment and make as many mistakes as possible as you will learn the most from your failures. Before you start you need to have very specific goals. I might ask why you want to use a larger mid horn the size of a LaScala horn? Have you considered how to re balance that horn into your speaker system You will need to learn a lot about crossovers to make this work as you will not be making such changes without also having to change your networks.
You will also have to learn how to tell if driver A is a working match to horn A because swapping out drivers on horns is not much better than a crap shoot. Same goes for swapping out horns on drivers.
Here is what I think. I think you should find the speaker system that is your dream speaker system or as close to that as you can and buy that speaker new or uses does not matter get it live with it learn it inside put position it so you achieve your dream system in your room. Then you can start to play with a second set of test speaker to see if you can make improvements on your reference sound. Always keep your reference speakers they are and will be your anchor to reality the best you were able to achieve. If you can better those then then you will have achieved something. When your experimental speaker betters your reference speaker in every way then you will have built a new reference loudspeaker, At that point get to know your new reference inside and out then start the process all over again and just keep doing that. That is the audio journey, there is no final destination only a journey forward into more improvements and refinements, if you stall up and cannot hear any improvements then it is time to work on your room so you can get back to building a better loudspeaker. It never stops. I started when I was twelve years old I am sixty five now.
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6 hours ago, krimx0n said:
that was fast.. yes I will experiment for sure. facing the room will be my Last resort because most of what I read about rp8000, distance and positioning / toe-in is key or just point it directly into the room. unfortunately my room doesn't have enough space for experimentation but will definitely do. btw thanks for the input.
here are some things you can do keep notes as you go with description of how each position sounds and also and this is important your gut feeling about each different set up. play with toe in and toe out you never have to move the speakers from their current position to do this yet large differences will be obvious. these differences will mostly impact the spatial sound stage and the 3D quality of the sound and how well the speakers disappear. for example have the speakers cross just in front of you and then just behind you. You can move the closer to the wall behind them this will increase bass weight and try moving a little closer toward you this will diminish the bass weight but sound stage and clarity will improve Find the magic spot that sounds best.
Lastly I like to recommend that you start your listening with an equilateral triangle set up if your room is small start at 8' space centre to centre of the speakers and 8' from the centre of each speaker to your head in you chair. Get a long tape measure this matters be methodical be exact to a small fraction of an inch lets say 1/8 to make it easier but later that may prove to be too wide a margin of error but for now stick with an 1/8" accuracy. You need to start experimenting as only you can do this and only you will know what will sound best to you at this time. I say at this tome for a reason, as your listening skills improve you will get better at noticing subtle differences and you will find that periodically you will get the urge to play with your system looking for improvements and you will find them. This takes time and practice but you will make headway and you will realize steady improvements. Best of luck ask questions but most of all experiment this is the road to better sound take it or leave it but remember if you decide to leave it then forget about complaining about it. I hope this helps you and any others who may have similar issues.
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Looking for specs and what woofer etc was in the 1985 HIP2 .vs an 1986 H2. Thanks in advance.
Cornwall with Altec 511b horn
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
bigger is better but bigger is not always better and the Altec 511b (and the 811b) has a very long history of ringing issues which are virtually impossible to make go away 100%. If you want to go bigger use a better horn. Some love them many do not, the 811b was in my first set of purchased loudspeakers Altec A7 and I would never go back to either a 811b or a 511b. I like large format two way loudspeakers. I even like small format two way loudspeakers, I have a set of Tannoy Revolution series XT Mini (and a pair of XT6 as well) and have owned a lot of other dual concentric Tannoy in the past starting with a pair of 1947 12" silver, monitor gold, HPD in various sizes as well as some non DC Tannoy models and I find the Revolution XT Series to be the best sounding DC the company has ever made at any price.