moray james
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Posts posted by moray james
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listened to some of his work last night in honor RIP Leslie.
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52 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:
It is very odd that you are ruling out SS amps or receivers , one thing you are forgetting is that Forte III speakers like powerful amps -
the Forte lll was voiced on SS amplifiers I think that is significant and not to be ignored.
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2 hours ago, Alex Defender said:
Thank you, instead do you have any idea about differences in tonal balance beetwen the two?
For example, I can see in the Chrous 2's frequency response curve that it progressively rises in treble while in Forte 1 it stays flatter.What does this mean? That Chorus 2 will tend to sound more open and wider, but brighter and more unbalanced towards the mid-high frequencies than the Forte1?
small toe in or out adjustments will deal with top end level one way or the other so that is not an issue. The Chorus uses the exact same drivers and horns but the Chorus ll runs the mid horn lower and this results is it holding its polar pattern to a lower frequency. aside from low end extension the Chorus ll is a better loudspeaker than the Forte ll in my opinion it is more efficient more exciting and more fun to listen to. You are going to have to listen to a pair if you want to know for yourself.
PS: you can adjust the tuning of the passive on a Chorus ll to lower it a number of Hz by adding 2.5 oz. of dead weight in the form of some large steel flat washers. You are looking at 3 - 4 Hz does not sound like much but it is a big deal to hear.
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never really alone . Have a happy Christmas and play with your stereo today.
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yes a happy Christmas to you all
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10 minutes ago, RobC63 said:
Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. Tried the oil filter wrench; unfortunately the diameter of the mid driver was just a little too big.
In the end I just sat down, put the metal horn section between my legs, and gave a good twist on the drivers... that did the trick.
I guess I was just being too gentle out of fear of cross threading the drivers.
good to hear but your description made me laugh thinking about you with a horn between your legs and wondering if now you could pee with constant directivity.
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Welcome to the forum. The mid driver in the Chorus is very hard to beat there are some better ones but you are not going to blow the stock one away and you will have to shell out considerable cash to do so. The tweeter can be improved upon again more cash. You can modify both the tweeter and the mid and obtain much improvement for a reasonable amount of cash, you will need some dynamat and some 1/8" F-11 Acoustical Felt to do so. I suggest you start with fresh caps for your speakers burn them in and go from there. Both horns used in the Chorus ll are very good within their ranges. The mid horn is very solid and does not need any damping the tweeter horn improves with a layer of dynamat The passive can be re tuned a little lower for a nice improvement in bass extension you only need add about 1.5 ounces of dead weight to the unit in the form of large steel flat washers, while the number of hertz it gains you is but a band full you will be pleased with the improvement. Hope this helps.
PS: I have included some interesting info on tweeter/mis allignment. see below.
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5 hours ago, jjptkd said:
I'm not against 2-way speakers I'm just saying that in this instance I do not believe replacing the stock Chorus mid and tweeter with something comparable to a KLF-10 horn and driver would be an improvement.
As for me I'm doing ok, got my own little project in the works and yes it is a 3-way.
I agree if you want to cover the same range with two drivers rather than three the two driver set up is going to require a much better horn driver as it must cover a much wider range. The upside is one less crossover in the most sensitive range of our hearing and integration over a shorter distance so better for near field listening. But different horses for different courses and each to his own. Enjoy your project and have a happy christmas.
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5 hours ago, RandyH000 said:
Moray - silicone gasket --Regards
ok that is a horse of a different color. I have no problem with that. I still think that a thin closed cell like window draft foam gasket is the best least expensive option and it compresses down o a thin and effective seal. If you have thin rubber gasket and the price is right that would be just as good.
Sorry if I jumped the gun as I did not realize you meant a gasket. I see so may times people recommending using silicon glue to seal removable cabinet baffles and to install drivers and horns and it makes them impossible to remove. Thanks for letting me know. Happy Klipschmas.
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as always you do such beautiful work but I do have a question to ask and it is not just directed at you , I see lots of great diy projects and no one ever stops to see the advantages of placing the mid horn at the top of the baffle with the tweeter below and above the woofer. this helps get the mid up closer to seated ear level and buys you some absolutely free time alignment between the mid and the tweeter at zero penalty all drivers remain within the 1/4 wave baffle placement rule. I have mentioned this many time and the feeling seems to be that this would somehow just look wrong and that makes no sense. Yes it will look different but it will also sound better at pretty much no cost except for the sensibilities of some folks who don't live and listen at your house. I know why manufacturers don't do this but as a very diy crowd folks should at least experiment with this configuration and see just how much possible improvement is possibly available to them. Some may well like what they hear.
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Man I could never bring myself to recommend anybody even my worst enemy to seal their cabinets permanently shut with silicone glue. Sorry to disagree with you but that is a very shortsighted and totally unnecessary piece of advice imo. All the same I know you mean the best so have a very happy christmas.
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3 hours ago, dmckean44 said:
It would be cool to build a pair that adds enough height to be front ported, it would make these speakers a lot easier to place. My KLF20s and KLF30s always wanted to be closer to the wall than their rear ports would allow.
I'm looking forward to seeing the finished results and possibly the measurements from the OP. I've always liked the looks of the KLF towers and I think developing an upgraded version is a worthwhile project.
I removed both baffles cut the vents off the back and then the same amount of the front baffle switched the short panel sections added a spacer the same thickness as the kerf of the saw blade then used a little paint and you cannot tell they are not stock. I did add a brace just above the seam between the two sections so the baffle is rock solid. (braces also added between the woofer and the mid)
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9 hours ago, jjptkd said:
Klipsch actually used the k-61/62 horn in 2-way pro speakers early 2000's? with an upper end rating of 15khz IIRC.
Certain ones used the 2" titanium driver the k-66e? but on the same style horn as the k-61 just the threaded insert type.
I really don't see a 2-way being better than stock unless the horn and driver size is increased over stock like with the 1.4" Faital Pro driver horn combo, which would fit above the woofer just need a crossover built for that combo or could go active I guess.
I did recall the Chorus ll mid horn was indeed used in a number of pro designs but it does not make it flat to 15KHz. because it was never intended to be used as a wide band horn (approaching 20KHz.). You don't see the benefit of a two way over a three way? PWK certainly did that was the reason behind the Jubilee to replace the KHorn which he had always wanted to be a two way but it did not have the necessary range and as such stayed a three way. That's not to say people can and do have preferences with two way Vs three way so by all means but I like to remember that large format two ways ruled worldwide in the recording studios for more than thirty years and in my opinion they do a lot of things very well and not much very wrong. I hope you can find what you are looking for that sounds the way you have hoped that it will. Have a happy christmas and stay well.
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7 hours ago, jjptkd said:
Honestly dont think a 2 way chorus 1 with a k61 horn / driver would be an improvement over stock I was thinking more along the lines of a higher end Faital pro driver or B&C.
the K61 is a mid horn and not a wide band horn but the mid horn used in the KLF20/30 is a wide band horn and so is the horn used in the CF3/4 and either of those two would make a fine two way given a wide band driver with a one inch exit. If you were good with a limited top end response then the K61 could be used but I don't think it gets out much past 12KHz..
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42 minutes ago, jjptkd said:
There is room above the woofer in a Chorus 1 for a k-510 horn, with a 2" to 1-3/8" threaded adapter you could install a Crites A55-g on the horn but the tweeter would have to be top mounted and the grill cover would no longer fit in place. Another option would be to top mount the new midhorn / driver leaving the old one in place.
why not take advantage of the opportunity and go two way? Bob Crites could help you with a crossover.
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22 hours ago, Speakerfritz said:
Speakerfritz is back
welcome back!
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4 hours ago, merkinman said:
So you are saying to make sure the Klipsch horn is on axis vertically, correct? I thought you were talking about the Tannoys needing to be elevated. Shouldn't the Fortes already be at the correct height by virtue of them being taller and should be at the optimal height relative to normal sitting position. I could see your point if you are auditioning both and are not seated, but I wouldn't think that would typically be the case.
I am saying that you need to place the mid driver (or mid/tweeter in the case of the Tannoy) at your seated ear level which varies between 38 - 41 inches up off of the floor. You might look at some polar plots of cones domes and horns off axis to get a better idea of what is happening.
The modifies H3 in the photo below are up on tall four post Skylan Stands which place the centre of the mid horn at my seated ear level.
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You can think all you want but no matter how badly you may want something won't necessarily make it so. Tannoy have a round horn (take a tape measure they are well below your seated ears) and they radiate vertically much more so than the rectangular mid horn which a Klipsch uses. You set up a speaker so that you are on axis to the mid driver if you want to hear what it can do. If that is to much trouble for you or it upsets the sensibilities don't feel bad you are in the majority but that doesn't change a thing. The market decides in the end what a product is going to be, how big how much, you can't fight reality and the market does not know anywhere near as much as they would like to think otherwise if they were so smart they would build it themselves. But that's not the case and as a manufacture you do the best that you can given the budget you that you have and the technology available to you and you sell the people as close to what they want as you can.
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2 hours ago, merkinman said:
Why? Cheviots were designed that way and it didn't seem like the soundstage was any lower than the Forte.
Why? Horns are directional so you don't want to be off axis. For this reason when frequency response measurements are taken they are all taken at the same distance and on axis. What ever the manufactures reason(s) for product design choices it matters not, recognized frequency response and polar response are all taken at a standard distance and on axis with polar response on a turntable for 360 degree measurements. For this reason many raise their speakers up on stands to achieve best results.
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when folks compare Tannoy to Forte they should insure the tweeters are at the same height up off the floor. Most Tannoy fire at your knees much like the Klipsch Epic series do.
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suggest that you lift a leg on one of your 2 ohm marked resistors and measure it to see what it really is. They may have selected resistors based upon measured value to save money. Just because a resistor is stamped 2 ohms does not necessarily make it so. Further if yu are happy with the spectral balance of your speakers then stick with the actual values that you currently have or be prepared for a change.
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Acoustically transparent screens are not and loudspeakers that are used to play behind such screens are balanced hot to adjust for the screen. If you run a standard stereo loudspeaker behind a screen it will lose a lot of its top end, you would need to experiment with EQ to see if you could balance it back out. Worth a try. Good luck.
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15 minutes ago, JohnJ said:
Saw this earlier today, been busy again. The man was remarkable. What he did would still be exhilarating for any pilot to do these days, but he did it in the 50s!! Could domestic cars even do 140 mph yet on the highways?
With my fascination with flying, the National Geographic essays on him the encyclopedias that I read... I did reports on him in school a few times. Dreamed of flying, not like Superman or Peter Pan. I'd be playing with my friends and gravity would just quit working on me. Once I was in the stars backwards summersaults were the only thing that would bring me back down.
RIP General Yeager
I cannot find any 50's domestic American stock cars which did over 150mph but the 59 Eldorado stock did 124mph. I am sure a man like Chuck was not going to get his thrills in a stock domestic vehicle and I do not doubt that there were stock motorcycles that could do 150 mph then and race cars which could do the same. RIP to a great man.
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Birds eye Cherry wow! That's cherry Cherry veneer.
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Forte I vs Chorus II
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
"toe in or out" refers to the position of the loudspeaker and exactly where you aim them. Loudspeakers have dropping high end response off axis so if a loudspeaker sounds too bright directly on axis to your seating location simply turn them so they cross either in front of you a little or just behind you a little choose by listening preference. You cannot move forward with this until you do some listening of your own. If you don't you are wasting the time of everyone including yourself.