gagelle

Thanks very much Islander.

Thanks Marvel. I really appreciate your help. I'm always into saving money.

I'm considering the Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena, Battery Powered Phono Stage. It has great reviews and is small. (I have limited space.) It doesn't do as much as the Manley. The only negatives I've read is that it should be charged first and run on batteries. I'm going to first try my phono jacks alone. Lately, I'm skeptical of everything. The advertising on every piece of new equipment makes fantastic claims like "It will broaden your sound stage so much it seems holographic." Come on. Everyone knows you need a Holophoner for that. http://tinyurl.com/3zt6j86 [Open in new window]

That's some piece of equipment, unfortunately way out of my financial means. But thanks anyway.

Sometimes I'll hear a song over and over and think nothing of it until one day the light bulb goes off, so to speak, and I realize how good it really is. This happened to an obscure piece on Led Zeppelin 3 called "Hats Off to (Roy) Harper. It's the last song on the album. It struck me how good the guitar work is. It's like the blues on acid. The last time I played the song it sounded like my left tweeter was breaking up at the beginning. As I went into a panic, my son reminded me the Led Zeppelin frequently left errors in their songs if they felt it was a good take. Sure enough, I put it on my living room equipment and heard the same crackling sound. It appears that their amplifier was breaking up when they recorded it. It made me feel a bit foolish for blaming my equipment and going into a panic.

Why do some sellers of tube gear say that because the unit has been sitting around for awhile it should be hooked up to a (I forget name but it gradually increases the voltage.) before using, ? I read an article about a component (I think it was an electrolytic cap. but I could be wrong.) that needs a gradual charge for a chemical reaction to take place. I know you tech guys know all about this. And my other question is why does this appear to be an issue only with tube gear?

I saw a Heresy review on the Klipsch site that was somewhat perplexing. The fellow down-rated them because "they are too heavy," although he admits that they sound very good. Then he goes on to write that Klipsch are not real "audiophile" speakers. I have no idea what he meant by this. I saw review of a French speaker last week that sells for over $20,000 each that the author claims to be some of the best speakers in the world. They weigh in at over 270 pounds each. Some of the reviews of these high end speakers actually contain descriptions that mean little except to praise any owner who has such good taste. One reviewer indirectly suggested that those who own "those" incredible speakers would not waste them on rock music. He referred to rock as "pop" music and wrote that the speakers being reviewed could eat it up and spit it out, as if such expensive speakers would have paroxyxms of nausea if they had to reproduce "pop music."

Perhaps one day if I get the money. I already have a collection of equipment I'm not using. I'm also surprised at some of the prices that anything with tubes in it is going for on Ebay. Even low end units that sold for $150 a few years ago are selling for over $300 now. There seems to be a "tube mania" going on. I don't know if these buyers realize that you can't just "turn on" an amp made in 1959 without a thorough professional evaluation.

The volume control on my Sansui AU-717 is suberb. It actually has notches and the output rises very gradually. It's rated at 85 watts per channel with both channels driven and like all Sansuis from the 70s, tests much higher. I haven't been able to turn the volume much without it getting extremely loud but I'm driving very efficient KLF 30s. The owner of a record store I know is running a Sansui 9090DB which is rated 125 watts. He has some inefficient KLH speakers and has to turn the volume about 1/3 of the way to really get loud. I hear what you're saying about the position of the volume control not directly cooresponding with power output, but mine is so silky smooth and graduated it's a pleasure to use.

Another thing that I noticed with the vintage tube amps on eBay: some of them have no cover. So I go look at reviews and find out there are lethal amounts of electricity flowing through sections of the chassis. The company added a cover the following year. That would go over well with my cats-returning home to baked cat.

Seems the same with solid state. I'm running a relatively low powered Sansui and I don't even have to turn the volume up much. The sound is so full and rich that I enjoy it at lower volumes.

Tube Fanatic: I never imagined that my question would lead to so many responses and points of view. I appreciate them all but don't have the time to answer everyone. Your explanation stands out for some reason. Perhaps because it seems more balanced and objective. I've been doing some research in my spare time and I've found several very nice tube amplifiers that are new. They are low powered, like five or six watts. The ones that are close to 18 watts are double the price which is already high. Then one has to add in the cost of a preamp which sometimes is as much as the amp itself. Then there's the cost of a tube preamp for records which may not be part of the regular preamp. In all fairness, some of the amps have one input but sometimes lack a volume control. So I may have to spend close to $3,000 for a 5 watt setup which may or may not sound good. When I read different reviews, it leads to more confusion. One person thinks the five watt unit sounds great. Another swears they have to be used as monoblocks to get a good sound stage. The used equipment is even more confusing. The popular vintage units cost a fortune and often need to be refurbushed. They need bias adjustments and the really old ones may not work with modern electric current.. I exclude the cheap Chinese amps, but I have no knowledge of these either. But my impression is that a good tube setup is expensive. One statement that you made makes the most sense: I have to listen to one myself. Unfortunately, I have to drive several hours to get to an area that has a showroom with tube amps. But this whole exploration lead me to one good thing. I found a cheap "learn to solder" kit complete with a small circuit board. It's made by Carl's electronics, which sells various tube kits that are much less expensive than completed units. In any case, I thank you and everyone else for all the valuable information.

Dave: I recognize some of the best and most collectible vintage units ever made. Absolutely beautiful!

Anyone familiar with the Sutherland pH 3-D? Someone recommended it to me and said you can do all sorts of things to get different sound characteristics from you cartridge.

Below is a link to an interesting article on a solid state piece of equipment that needs to be warmed up to sound good. http://tinyurl.com/64l2332 [Open in new window]

No, it was in garage sale a few years ago. The guy was trying to sell Palladium speakers for about 10% of the real price. He claimed to be in Bangkok. He had serial numbers but when someone requested photos, he became very angry. He also claimed that he was a doctor. It turned out that he went into a store and copied the serial numbers. Klipsch contacted the store and they still had the speakers. Someone also traced him to another web site trying to pull the same scam. You send a money order to him and all is lost. He just joined a day before the attempted sale (fraud.)

Thanks Tube Fanatic. Your explanation is very helpful. I'll check out the companies you mentioned.

Hi Audible. I understand what you're saying and it holds true perhaps for the Heritage line. But many people continue to but those speakers with solid state equipment also. I really have to hear a good tube amp for myself, which I intend to do when I can drive to the Bay area. There are no small audio shops in my city, except for some places that specialize in room design.

Fair enough. I don't know enough about the subject to judge the veracity of his explanation.

It's on this Ebay page: http://tinyurl.com/3j5n5l5 [Open in new window] It's at the question and answer part at the bottom. Obviously, lacks objectivity when ones trying to sell something. I don't know the guy in any way. Looks like a nice unit but I would never bid on something that will obviously go very high just on the seller's reputation.

Hi SWL The main obstacle for me is money. I've been following some tube units on Ebay and am in disbelief at how high these things are being bid up.

I've never owned RF7s but from the spec sheet, the RF7lls appear to be very efficient and should sound great with your receiver. How does it sound with your current setup? An RF7 owner would probably have more knowledge about their need for power than I do. To add an amp, you need preamp out jacks on your receiver. I added a 200 watt 3 channel Emotiva this way. But my receiver was only rated 70 watts with two channels driven. It just didn't sound good pushing 5 speakers. Not only the power, but the sound quality fell off when pushing multiple speakers. I didn't do enough research before I bought.

gnatnoop, perhaps you can help me understand something that seems basic. Is a preamp is needed for a tube amp? If so,does the preamp brand have to match the amp? I also noticed that some tube amps have controls like preamps and will have, maybe one input. Yet they're not called integrated amps. I get the feeling (perhaps I'm mistaken) that one can use a tube amp the way it is; that it doesn't need preamp processing but just a basic device for input jacks. And finally, are there good tube amps being made now that are not several thousand dollars or does one have to dig around for retro units?Thamks in advance for any help.

Here's an explanation by Bob Carver: "It's easy to believe that a watt is a watt is a watt - but wait - it turns out that a tube amp watt sounds much more powerful than the same audio watt delivered from a transistor amp. How can that be? How can a tube-amp watt sound more powerful than a transistor-amp watt? The answer is because it IS more powerful! The output voltage of a tube amp follows the impedance curve of our loudspeakers, thereby rising substantially higher than it would if the load were a resistor. Solid state amps don't, and cannot, do that. The increase is HALF AGAIN to TWICE the effective power."

I accidentally stumbled upon the fraudulent garage sale thread very late last night and it scared the hell out of me. It's easy to get a false feeling of safety from the Klipsch site. I guess it's prudent to be wary of new members selling expensive things who live outside of the US.