JewishAMerPrince

That may be a difficult question to answer and may vary speaker line to speaker line. Using the RFs as an example, the 7's are an excellent value offering top notch performance while the 3s are a steal in my opinion offerring great performance at a very affordable price. Right now a 7 setup will cost nearly three times what a 3 setup will, but do they deliver three times the performance? The reasons for the difference in price/performance are mostly marketing based and only partially cost based. The more units a manufacturer sells of a given series the less markup it may be willing to accept to make an aggrigate profit off of that line. Therefore, just as an example, Klipsch may make only a 25% margin over cost on the 3's vs 75% margin on the 7's. Overall they will make far more total profit from 3 series sales than 7 series because of the far greater number of units that sell at a value price point. Because of this there is an apparent "diminishing return" in this and most product lines. A Toyota Camry is half the cost of a BMW 325 but is far more than half the car...etc ..etc JR

Have you made any changes in the room, adding sound absorbing furniture perhaps? How about changes in your sorce generators (DVD or CD player or sat receiver) differing units have differing outputs requiring different gain settings for your receiver. Jerry Rappaport

---------------- On 3/25/2003 9:35:39 PM Ou8thisSN wrote: do you feel that the Denon 5803 or the Pioneer ELITE 49-TXi brings out the full soundstage of the RF7s, or should I just get the RF3 system? ---------------- I can't speak for the 3803 or the 49 TXi but I do have a 3801 which has similar amps. While I feel the Denon does a good job with the 7's I think they deserve better. As far as just setteling for 3's goes, the 3's are great speakers and do "speak" quite well for themselves. Side by side comparison done in the same room with the same Denon 3801 receiver(which I had the opportunity to do today) puts the 7's in a different league than the 3's. I myself was in the same quandry two weeks ago before making the hard decision to replace my 3's with 7's. Several people here on the board convinced me to "go for it". I will be forever greatful to them for their opinions. Even my wife loves the 7's, and she has always claimed to not be able to tell the difference between the FM radio in her car and my HT setup! JR PS If you do want to go for RF3's, I have a pair with an Rc3 center less than 2 years old and all in perfect condition that I am willing to part with.

Tight...very tight! (that's my 13 yo son's comment) I think the setup looks great. You probably would get some improvement in bass quality if you could figure out how to get the SVS further out from the walls of the corner. I have my 2039pci in a corner about 2.5 ft out from each wall. Bass response was reduced from close placement to the walls, but the lows are far far smoother.

I disagree strongly about the limited differences between the 3's and 7's. You may want to view my post about speaker break in to get my whole opinion on the matter. Jerry Rappaport P.S. Perhaps you need something better than the Yami to bring out the huge soundstage that the 7's are capable of. I am pleased with the sound of the Denon, but for myself I am moving to Rotel separates. Rotel also makes two really dynamite receivers that can bring out the best in the RF7's. They cost a few bucks more than an equivalent power mid-fi receiver, ( oh G-d I'm sounding so snobbish recently!)but they are not outrageously priced and seem to have better resale than mid-fi. JR

Well the big day has arrived. The Sound Advice truck pulled up at 2:30 this afternoon and dropped off my new RF7's and RC7. What an incredible difference they make from my RF3's in MY a/v room. Honestly in SA's showroom there wasn't as apparent a difference because the 3's and the 7's were set up in different rooms, and the 7's were set up in a manner that didn't necessarily enhance them. The Madrigals and B&W's got the prime positions in the high end speaker room where the RF5's and 3's got the prime positions in the mid-fi room. I was reluctant to spend the money on what seemed to me to be a small improvement. After some reassuring advice from several of you (to whom I will be forever indebted) I decided to take the plunge. What an incredible set of speakers the 7's are. I was able to set up the new 7's right next to the 3's in my actual listening room and do a legit A-B. After switching from the 3's to the 7's I never even switched back! Now I can't wait till my RS7's arrive next week. Well, enough schmoozin and down to my question. I've heard a lot about speakers having to "break in". I've even seen special CDs and DVDs advertised at Amazon.com made for the express purpose of speaker break in. Is there anything factual to this or is it just more hype to sell something? Thanks Jerry Rappaport

Thanks again foxman. OBTW, I like your suggestion about contacting Rotel. I may just do that! JR

Since my RF/RC/RS-7's will arrive on tuesday the time has come to consider new electronics to replace my venerable but slightly out of date Denon 3801. I have been considering making the giant leap into seperates and after extensive research I have come to the conclusion that the setup my pocketbook would tolerate is the Rotel RSP-1066 processor with their RMB-1075 for the fronts and surrounds and RB-1050 for the surround backs. I have read some very good things about the Rotel equipment, but after a recent trip to my one and only local Rotel dealer I was very much put off by the attitude of the salesperson (who happenend to be the store owner). I a trying hard to NOT let that bad taste influence my perception of the equipment. I would like to hear from others that currently own or have owned Rotel. I did a couple of private inquiries to some of you and did get one positive response...thanks again foxman. I have been told by others that Rotel may be a bit bright for the RF's, and even more noticable because of the fact that I am coming out of a Denon receiver and have a slightly bright room. I need your feedback please! Thanks Everyone in advance. Jerry Rappaport

At my last house I had a very similar architectural setup. I had my Rs3's on the ceiling approximatly the same width apart as my mains, mounted with their backs up against the ceiling and located slightly behind my seating area. I had no problem with this arraingment sonically. Please note that the RS3s seemed to lose some of their difuse nature and become more directional in this arraingmnet. That was not necessaily a bad thing. Jerry Rappaport

As you move up, you may want to try using the quints as surrounds. They actually work pretty well in that capacity. I use them as my back speakers in a 7.2 setup with RF-3/RC-3/RS-3. Welcome to the Klipsch clique! J Rappaport

"I feel like the SA here in Tallahassee has represented Klipsch very well & I am thrilled that they have worked out this problem." I agree wholeheartedly that SA has done a great job of representing Klipsch here in Palm Beach County also, and it was a shame to hear that they had lost the rights to the line because of misbehavior of their parent company. Tweeter just bought out SA something like a year ago. Since then, it appeared that SA was trying to push B&W on their potential Klipsch customers. Fortunately for me, I was able to make a good deal on some RF7's and an RC7 with my local SA last week while their situation was still in limbo. I don't think they would be quite as flexible today. Now it's time to replace my slightly out of date Denon 3801. I'm thinking of going to Rotel Separates in lieu of an upgraded receiver. Comments anyone? Jerry Rappaport

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on your upgrade. Less than an hour ago I placed my order for new RF-7's and RC-7 center in cherry to replace my black 3's. Once I sell off my 3's the difference will amount to about $1300 which I still consider worth the price of admission. There is nothing quite like the feeling of owning the top of the line! I appreciate you comments on the Bass. Two years ago I parted with KG 5.2s and a KV2.2 center and purchsed the 3's. I did this because the KG's were just physically too large for the room. I was seriously dissapointed in how smaller the 3's sounded on the low end by comparison. Now I have moved to a much larger house and the 3's not only sound small but look small.

Size DOES matter! The interior volume of the cabinet and the port size are the most important dimensions. The RF-7's are quite a bit wider and taller than the 3's to accomodate the larger mid/lf speakers, so the volume equation then dictates a smaller depth to achieve the required volumes. Ratios are not a rule, just the dimesions must be such to not create standing waves within the enclosure at the woofer resonant frequency.

I have a set of lightly used RF-3's for sale with a RC-3 center that could make it to your door for $800. These speakers are less than 2 years old, in perfect condition and still in warrantee. The were purchased from an authorized Klipsch dealer. RF-3 series is made in black ash vinyl that is very realistic looking.

---------------- On 2/16/2003 2:20:22 AM shoe11 wrote: Granted that the Reference line will not be sold at Best Buy, but the simple question remains.... who on here has ever bought a pair of home audio speakers from Best Buy? This has been on for a day now and no one so far has said they have. ---------------- Perhaps that is the strategy on the part of both Best Buy and Klipsch,to pull a different market segment into the BB stores. It seems to me to be a Win/Win situation for everyone, including the consumer. As for BB & Klipsch one expands and improves their line of goods, the other expands their distribution. As long as Klipsch keeps pouring money into R&D for their high end product line, do you really care where they sell the low end to make those R&D dollars?

The Klipsch spec of 8 ohms is "nominal impedance". Most Klipsch products actually fall closer to 6 ohms than 8. This is one of the reasons they are so effecient. The industry mostly rates all equipment at either 4 or 8 ohms, so Klipsch chose to rate their speakers at 8 ohms. Most older Klipsch products ( 10 years ago and earlier)were 4 ohms. By the way, your chances of damaging the Klipsch's is slight unless you drive the Pana into clipping...then the resulant DC like waveform may cook the voice coils a bit.

OK...you guys have me hooked. When it is time to release some of the tension from work I put on Telarc's "Hollywood's favorite Hits Vol 1", track 14-Bill Conti's instrumantal version of the Theme from ROCKY. Then I crank up the SPL and shadow box and do some fancy footwork till I'm pooped...which may require several repeats of the tune. Now the WORLD knows.....

If anyone is interested in another RF3/RC3 setup in perfect condition (not so much as a nick on any). They are from an authorized dealer and are about 18 mons young. I would be looking for about $750.00 plus s&h. ( I get heavy discounts on UPS thru the Mrs workplace. I want RF 7's, but the Mrs would kill me if I brought them home without the 3's leaving first.

Perhaps you mean optical vs coax for sound? It is generally accepted that most devices do better on coax than optical. There is no engineering explination for this other than perhaps some distortion introduced by the elect optical conversion/downconversion process. ------------------ Main System: Mitsubish Gold+ 65" Denon 3801 Toshiba 5800 DVD Sony 5 disc CD changer Klipsch RF3 fronts RC3 center RS3 surrounds Quintet's for rears ( cheap way out, I know..but it works!) Energy 12" powered sub MBR System: Hitachi Ultrvision 50FS Denon 2803 Pioneer DVD JVC SVHS Klipsch KG 3.5 mains ?????? Center Klipsch IW 150 surrounds Sub=soon!

Much depends on the speakers you are using. With my RF's I tried a Yamaha and then decided on the Denon 3801 (nearly identical predicessor to the 3802. Sweet sounding combo and all the power you will ever need! I got mine just about a year ago retail from Sound Advice at just about $700.00. Good luck! ------------------ Main System: Mitsubish Gold+ 65" Denon 3801 Toshiba 5800 DVD Sony 5 disc CD changer Klipsch RF3 fronts RC3 center RS3 surrounds Quintet's for rears ( cheap way out, I know..but it works!) Energy 12" powered sub MBR System: Hitachi Ultrvision 50FS Denon 2803 Pioneer DVD JVC SVHS Klipsch KG 3.5 mains ?????? Center Klipsch IW 150 surrounds Sub=soon!

Keeping in mind that there isn't a heck of a lot of 6.1 or 7.1 media out there yet, and mostly the rears are for producing a circular acoustical effect, what I have done is used a pair of Quintets hung upside down from the ceiling and placed faily close together (only about 4' apart). Although this setup seems to be "cheaping out" by comparison to the money invested in my RF3's etc, it does work timbre wise. Because of the small size of the Quints, I need to crank up rear volume by about 5db to get everything to balance out on a sound meter. The setup sounds great in reality, even though it may be lame on paper. By the way, my room is 37x20x10h and my "rears" are positioned about 26 feet from the fronts, which puts them about 10' behind my listening area.

To me, it sounds like either a bass management problem in the receiver, or because the RF3's are so bright, you may just not be turning it up loud enough to fully appreciate the RF's full, but very tight bass. The RF's seem to have a "break in period" where the highs are very prominent and almost harsh. This seems to diminish after about 90 hours of use. Some receivers have a selection for LFE bass called Mains+Sub vs Sub only. Although this is intended for home theater, sometimes these settings carry over to music only listening. If this is the case try both positions ( even though you don't have a sub)to see if it makes a difference for music. My solution was to turn down the treble by 3-5db on my system and turn up the volume by 3-5 db. The Mid bass and lower bass on my RF's became much more prominent. Also, when I Bi-wired, the lower bass seemed to increase, but that is probably just in my head. Main System: Mitsubish Gold+ 65"(on order) Denon 3801 Toshiba 3700 DVD Sony 5 disc CD changer RF3 fronts RC3 center RS3 surrounds Quintet's for rears ( cheap way out, I know..but it works for now!) Energy 12" powered sub MBR System Hitachi Ultrvision 50FS Denon 2803 Pioneer DVD JVC SVHS Klipsch KG 3.5 mains ?????? Center Klipsch IW 150 surrounds Sub=? This message has been edited by JewishAMerPrince on 09-22-2002 at 05:35 AM

Actually, I have been researching similar conditions. The Mitsu Gold Plus series is new for 2003, in 2002 it was just the gold or platinum series. I decided to wait for the Gold Plus (411 series) to become available since with the advantage of having the quadrifocus system from the Platinum series the picture appears much sharper. With the viewing distance you have, the 55" is as big as I would go. There are some good deals still available on 2002 Platinum series units around the only difference between the G+ and Platinum is the built in HDTV tuner.I have found that even heavily discounted the 02 Platinum is still more $$ than the 03 Gold+.

I had nearly the same experience with UBID except over a pair of RF3's. LF driver cones were dented in both speakers of the pair. There was no sign of damage to the packaging, and the cartons appeared to be sealed with original tape. I was able to get to speak to a live person, but was not satisfied with their explanation that the damage must have happened at the Klipsch plant when they were packed!!!! Nor was I satisfied with their solution of shipping them back at my expense, waiting for them to determine if there was a problem, then crediting my AMEX less shipping (and a restocking charge if they determined that I was the cause of the damageText! One call to AMEX solved the problem. The speakers were picked up at my door the next day by prepaid freight, and the full amount was credited immediatly to my account. Never underestimate the power of the people who ultimatly write the check to the retailer! AMEX was great! I went out and purchased the RF3's retail locally at Sound Advice...Yes, I paid a few dollars more, but when I look at the cost of grief and aggrivation...it was a no brainer. Of course I used my AMEX card for that purchase too!

I just purchase a new pair of KG 3.5's for use in my Master BR. Mostly will be used for music, but am setting up for HT also. Anyone have a recommendation for a center? Main System: Mitsubish Gold+ 65" Denon 3801 Toshiba 3700 DVD Sony 5 disc CD changer Klipsch RF3 fronts RC3 center RFS3 surrounds Quintet's for rears ( cheap way out, I know..but it works!) Energy 12" powered sub MBR System Hitachi Ultrvision 50FS Denon 2803 Pioneer DVD JVC SVHS Klipsch KG 3.5 mains ?????? Center Klipsch IW 150 surrounds Sub=? This message has been edited by JewishAMerPrince on 09-23-2002 at 05:25 AM