fabulousfrankie

I'm sure it sounds a bit different than the KSW-10 as well. I just heard one for the first time yesterday and it's packs a whallop for it's size.

---------------- On 1/31/2004 1:26:01 PM kfanfun wrote: Actually, the older VTF-3's performance is more in line with the SVS's PC+ line(especially in max output mode), and some have preferred sound quality too. The new VTF-3MK2 should show improvement. The VTF-3MK2 has 40% more power, driver and port enhancements, and is selling for $699 with free shipping. Someone on HTF and AVS is doing a "shootout" for fun, and communicated with Dr. Hsu. Apparently Dr. Hsu has no issue with him comparing dual VTF-3MK2 with SVS's PB2-Ultra. That guy should be having some fun. ---------------- Here's why I say the VTF-3 performance is similar to the SVS' PCi/CS line. These numbers come from Howard Ferstler, he measures from 17ft away,using audible cues to denote the onset of *audible* distortion to his ear in his 3500ft^3 room. VTF-2($449) - 31hz/106___20hz/90dB VTF-3($849) - 31hz/112___20hz/100dB SVS 16-46PC($649) - 31hz/113___20hz/102dB(107dB w/some air rushing through grille noise). SVS 25-31PCi($549) - 31hz/112___20hz/96(25hz tuned) 98(22hz tuned)

---------------- On 1/31/2004 4:15:43 PM fire pinch wrote: Something new today, a picture of the Tumult in action! I wanted to host it so you can see it without clicking on the file but god damn, I lost all my softwares which permit me to do this!!! I have a quite buzy day , Im gonna try to post some objective datas before the night if I can. I begin to be like The_Ear on his Mega PC Speaker comparo topic! But well, people are not complaining too much as I can see, so why not posting more in one week? ---------------- LOL...Was the subwofer was vibrating your hand while taking the picture?

---------------- On 1/31/2004 1:26:01 PM kfanfun wrote: Actually, the older VTF-3's performance is more in line with the SVS's PC+ line(especially in max output mode), and some have preferred sound quality too. The new VTF-3MK2 should show improvement. The VTF-3MK2 has 40% more power, driver and port enhancements, and is selling for $699 with free shipping. Someone on HTF and AVS is doing a "shootout" for fun, and communicated with Dr. Hsu. Apparently Dr. Hsu has no issue with him comparing dual VTF-3MK2 with SVS's PB2-Ultra. That guy should be having some fun. ---------------- I've always been under the impression it was it was more inline with the PCi/CS line but I've never really scrutinized it too well so I could be wrong. A shootout between the PB2 Ultra and upgraded VTF-3 should be an interesting read.

The VTF-3's performance is comparable to the SVS CS/PCi line wich means it's a great sub...this is one of the best bang for the buck subs out their and it looks absolutely gorgeous in the rosewood finish. I think the VTF-3 and RSW15 should be at the top of your list, the VTF-3 will not fall off as quickly as the RSW15 below 30Hz but regardless of that the RSW15 should be capable of more clean output through most of their operating range. I've found that even if a sub starts tailing off and but it's output is still clean and loud you won't really feel like you're missing much. After I sold my CS Ultra, I used a sealed Stryke AV15 for a few months. The Stryke was flat to ~30Hz and the SVS was flat to ~15Hz(a full octave lower), but the Stryke is capable of displacing more air and I was missing the SVS like I thought I would. That's the reason I think the RSW15 is so well received by it's owners even though it starts to fall off below 30Hz.

---------------- On 1/30/2004 9:16:38 PM fire pinch wrote: Frankie, This XBL2 motor technology REALLY make a difference, you absolutely have to hear it once!!! . In CLEAN output, if Dan Wiggins says that 3 Tempests = 1 Tumult, this means in CLEAN output that about 7.5 L of air = the 5.1 L of the Tumult. This means too that the Tumult is somewhat a bit of an exeption in clean bass output. Well, when I look to those liters number, I think that Im not totally correct, but you can see the ratio of clean air displacement. And now, this is pretty questionnable, how much AV-15 = 1 Tumult?? Two AV-15 = 7.6L of air right? Well... dual AV-15s will sound louder, but how much loudly clean? Is the AV-15 a cleaner sounding woofer than the Tempest? Not at the same quantity of air displaced but when they approach their respective Xmax. Who knows? Well, I did some observations and here is what I found (Tempest vs Tumult): The Tempest sounds loud, when its excursion is at about 80% of its Xmax but you can hear noticable distortion. In the other side, the Tumult sounds loud, when its excursion is at 80% of its Xmax, but it sounds incredibly cleaner. I was one who was skeptical about the XBL technology, but now, Im a beleiver! Well, I concluded this by taking some measurements with each woofers and with my ears. I dont know if other Tumult users got the same conclusions than me but well... well, IM IN A HURRY to see that new finish Frankie!! < p] ---------------- fire pinch, I have no doubt that the XBL motor is superior to most conventional motors and I'm convined of it's low distortion abilities(I really would like to hear one though) even at extreme excursions. I was just saying that even with my "puny" conventional woofer(compared to the Tumult) it's good enough for me since most of the time they're not operating anywhere near their limits. I've done a quick little subjective test with different subs that all had similar FR and found that when they weren't being pushed I couldn't tell the difference between my dual AV15's, a single vented DIY sub using an SVS CS driver, and a vented DIY sub using a Cerwin Vega Vega 128(car sub).

Fire Pinch, You summed it up as well as any of us could. I had the hardest time deciding between getting a single Tumult or dual AV15's. I ended up going with the dual AV15's because I feel confident that even though only Adire woofers come with XBL motors the distortion of the current high excursion woofers is low enough for it not to make a huge difference. As if there aren't enough choices for you already, here's another great deal...the Blueprint AL1804. It's basically the 1803 which is a 18" with 25mm one-way Xmax that costs $260 shipped. http://www.audioliquidators.com/sub.html This woofer is capable of displacing even more air than a Tumult(6.25L) provided you have an amp large enough to drive it. Also check out the 1503 on the site as well. These Blueprint subs are also excellent choices if you need a small enclosure but you run into the same "problem" with the Tumult. If you use appropriate sized ports with them they are going to have to be longer than the actual enclosure so you need to use passive radiators(two of the Stryke 18" PR's would be appropriate for this woofer). Here's a thread on a Behringer amp for $350, this guy tested its output and got it to do over 2000 watts...pretty impressive for the price. Oh yeah, I just got a new job so I've been thinking of getting rid of the easy pour monoliths...I'll keep my sub ideas a secret for now until I'm absolutely sure of what I'm going to do though. I'll just say it's a little unconventional but it requires me to do a bunch more research to really see if I can get it to work though...I've only ever seen it mentioned by one other person.

---------------- On 1/28/2004 11:59:52 PM richr8 wrote: I am about to pull the trigger on a new sub. I was quoted $1400. for the Seismic 12 from a local dealer. Is this a good Price? How much better would this be then my DefTech Soundfield 12. My DT falls off the chart at about 40Hz on the Avia disk. The only reason I don't go straight for the PB2+ is the size, and the Sunfire is out of my budget range. My room is about 13 X 17 with 9 foot ceilings open on one end. Any suggestions or comments are appreciated. ---------------- I'm not sure where the Soundfield 12 falls within Def Tech's lineup but the Seismic 12 gives a good whooping to the other Def Tech subs on the Nousaine list(PF15TL+, Supercube I, and Supercube 2): TN list If you could go with live with a larger enclosure then the most cost effective way to get big bass would be to go with one of the SVS cylinders. If you have to have a small sub then the Seismic 12 is a great subwoofer(just heard it today). I like gcoker's idea as well about the RSW-15 instead.

Is there anything that I can get from my local hardware store that can be used as spikes for my KLF-20's?

---------------- On 1/29/2004 11:11:34 PM Jordan wrote: What amp are you using to drive the Tumult(I love that name, along with Titanic, they sound strong). The description on the Titanic kit says I can get 115dB of bass output. Is this true? Does the 4 dB of sensitivity make a big diff? i don't tend to listen to music loudly, but movies I do. Thanks for you and Formica's help. ---------------- Whether you can get 115dB is dependent on the source material, the alignment you use for the woofer, and how much power you push to it. With that woofer and the appropriate amount of power 115dB seems reasonable in most rooms. 4dB is a big difference in sensitivity. With all other things being equal, say you have a woofer with 90dB efficiency and it takes 500W to reach 110dB. Compared to a woofer that's 86dB efficient(4dB less) it would take over 1100W to reach the same level. The Tumult is a good choice if have a really big amp and a small enclosure is one of your biggest priorities. I was considering a Tumult but decided to get dual AV15's instead because large enclosures(the cheapest route to big bass don't bother me.

I'm in a bit of a financial bind so I need to sell this TV quick. It is only a few months old and works perfectly. The TV itself is in like new condition and the stand has two very small knicks I will describe in the pictures below, I want to be upfront about this to be fair. I don't have the remote but the TV comes with the AC adapter and power cord. Asking $385 The same TV sells for close to double at Best Buy: Click here for more info. I'm an active participant at the Klipsch forum who has bought and sold here with no problems. You can also check my ebay feedback. Click pictures to enlarge Front view from left Front view from right Side view Top view of buttons View of back panel If you look just below the top right screw hole of the stand you'll see a small knick from a screw driver. View of left side connections View of right side connections AC adapter If you look at the side of the foot on the tv stand you will see the other knick I was talking about. Thanks for looking. fabulousfrankie@hotmail.com

---------------- On 1/29/2004 12:46:44 AM formica wrote: ---------------- On 1/28/2004 11:51:25 PM fire pinch wrote: Im still happy that Formica and I are QUITE in Sync for our sub Who did win the race? LOLLLL!!!!!!! ---------------- I don't know... what's the prize? You haul your Tumult to my place? If we don't consider the fact that you're on your 2nd sub, it's pretty tied... which goes well with the spirit of the forum... Later... Rob PS: Did Frankie ever get some socks onto his "easy-pour" monoliths? ---------------- Nope...Frankie's been quite lazy. I was all motivated at first to get these done but once they were functional the motivation went away. I've been wanting to do it lately but it's just too cold here on the east cost to be spraying the MDF outside. I do have everything to finish it though...does that count for anything?

---------------- On 1/29/2004 4:27:52 PM Watchengineer wrote: Could someone explain what resistive loading means? I was reading through the specs on the Bash amps installed in the SV Subwoofers and was wondering what it means. I just purchase a PB-1 ISD and it states the amp has "Into 4 ohms, 320Watts, Resistive Loading". Thanks for any insight. ---------------- I just means that they used some sort of resistor when testing the output of the amp instead of a speaker. The impedance of a speaker changes with the frequency so SVS just used something that would give would give a constand load.

---------------- On 1/29/2004 12:56:38 PM om13934 wrote: Thanks for all the info. The sub is up to about 85 hz now, and the rf15's set to small. ". It hurt to call my RF-7's "small" in the set up, but at 80hz it's sounding pretty good to me " I understand what you mean Darren. (AND I ONLY HAVE RF15's!) We'll give it a few weeks of listening to see how performance matches. ---------------- You need to turn the crossover on the sub to it's highest position. You already have an 80Hz crossover in the Denon and you do not want your Klipsch's crossover interfering with that, it will cause more problems.

---------------- On 1/28/2004 8:55:27 AM Cleve wrote: Guys, it was not really my intention to 'bash' Klipsch - I love Klipsch - in December I just spent $1300 on Klipsch products. And the SVS in question is 50% more expensive than my Klipsch AND I was thinking of using my RW-12 to trade UP to new Klipsch mains. And it's not like I'm the first person to say good things about SVS here - I've seen dozens of similar posts in the archive. ---------------- Don't worry about it. We're not getting on your case, just Klipschomatic's.

It's a spectacular price for the performance you get.

Set all speakers to small and send everything to the sub, it will free up all speakers of the bass duties and they'll play cleaner. Receiver manufacturers really should have used words other than large or small for the setting, in 99% of rooms I think it's best to set all speakers to small and have a sub handle all the lows, that's what I do with my very bass capable KLF20's and it sounds better than them being set to large. The RW12 will have no poblem playing up to 80hz. Also don't forget to recalibrate the levels of each speaker after you do this.

Here's some places where you can get the BFD: http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDSP1124P http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040127122102068100228014829999/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/182467/ I've ordered from both places without problem. You can also check your local pro audio store, I picked mine up at my local Guitar Center.

---------------- On 1/27/2004 2:16:09 PM klipschomatic wrote: Great, another new person in here advertising another company's subwoofer. This is not an Atlantic Technology forum either. ---------------- I use Kilpsh front's, center, and surrounds because I feel they are the best for the my money. I do not use a Klipsch sub because I don't feel they are the best for the money. It seems a big factor in your purchasing process is brand loyalty and that's fine but there's no need for you to make a useless posts like you have been doing trying to scold people who don't mention the word Klipsch everytime they post. It's also kind of funny how you say "Great, another new person..." when you have 19 total posts. Why does this thing cost $600? It's a single band parametric eq...when I saw the price I thought it might inlcude a mic(and maybe auto eq like Velo's DD subs), but it doesn't. There are better and much cheaper ways to get much more flexible eq. I say download free tones from the net and burn them on a cd yourself. If you haven't already got one, go out and grab a RS SPL meter, take measurements and plot them in the excel chart I've uploaded. Instead of this single band eq for $600 go and buy a $120 BFD(what I use) online or from your local pro audio shop and follow the guide below on how to set it up(it seems complicated but after you do it once it's a breeze), you could always email or PM me if you need help. This eq has dual 12 band parametric eq's as oppossed to the single band in the Atlantic Tech piece. A single band can help but it's not enough if you desire the flattest response. Download the excel graph here Download free tones here Tutorial for setting up the BFD This will offer you better performance and more flexibility for much less.

---------------- On 1/27/2004 12:15:48 PM klipschomatic wrote: The RW-12 is a good sub and its substantial corner to corner port behaves very similar to having a passive radiator. Use the LR inputs instead of the LFE inputs and you will gain around another 6dB in output. It is unfortunate that you are choosing to disparage the Klipsch on this board in favor of an SVS you have never heard so triumphantly. I will continue to defend Klipsch and point out what amounts to SVS advertisements on this Klipsch bulletin board. If he were posting about a Polk sub, would you guys be so supportive? ---------------- Any port behaves like a PR, not just a corner port. Using the LR inputs doesn't really give you 6dB(I think it's 3dB though) more output in the end if that's what you're implying. Regardless of which input you use the driver can still only move the same amount of air. A signal coming from any normal receiver to the LFE input will be able to driver the sub to it's max. Doing it this way instead of the LR inputs just means you need the level turned up a tiny bit more to reach the same volume but in the end it's all the same.

It is relatively new but it was on the SVS news page from back in August. I know they only starting shipping a little while ago though. It will whoop the RW12 pretty good, I think it's the best bargain in subs right now.

Now I'm curious as to what your system looks like...care to share?

That's now exactly new, but it is a great sub.

---------------- On 1/26/2004 8:10:06 PM TheEAR wrote: No Frankie,you cannot tear a spider and not damaging the cone.Its the sourround,I would use a glue that stays flexible on any sourround.Still this would change the woofer's FS and impact the sound. ---------------- If it is the surround, you'll need something flexible like silicon. My brother accidentally put a hole in the surround of his SVS CS driver from a slip of the screwdriver. I used a bit of clear silicon on the front and back of the tear and it's holding up great. I've been rocking it hard for two weeks now to try and see if get the cut to reopen but it seems like it's good to go. I've noticed no audible changes.

---------------- On 1/26/2004 10:55:29 PM TheEAR wrote: You are very irritated I see.Irritation can be cured! Ok pal I will keep my tone down.This year's resolution brag no more than 5% of the time. A great deal for ya ---------------- I thought you were going to suggest he buys more subwoofer to cure his irritation...that's what I would have said.