Bella

I don't have all the details and all I heard is that Apple's encryption was so good they couldn't get through it.

Whatever Thaddeus Smith. I don't really care. I skimmed the thread and thought it to be in poor taste with a healthy dose of moderator input - and the administrator! Even some name calling. I inquire and get some guy I've never seen post accusing me ever so slightly of promoting 'bullshit conspiracy theories or criticism.' Nice to meet you, Thaddeus.

The thread was locked (rightfully so, imo) and now unlocked. And the mod who locked it now likes the last post made prior to the lock? Far be it for me to know what's going on, but something isn't right.

Under no circumstances do I think Apple should be forced to develop a product that today does not exist. This isn't compelling a company to comply with a court order, this is forcing a company to make something they aren't in business to make. This will go to the U.S. Supreme Court I'm sure. A decision supportive of the FBI's position will have profound affects not just on privacy, but on corporate policy. If they can force you to make something outside of your business model what precedent does that set?

This whole thread is in poor taste, imo. Grow up, 'men.'

If we ever get to where you'd like us to be with rehabilitation I'm sure you'll be the first (and only) to volunteer to have them move in next door. Just be prepared for your other neighbors to hate you. Agreed. And I see no point in adding to the risks by moving some convicted maniac to be my neighbor. I'm always looking for ways to minimize my risk. Strange I am, I suppose. I hope as a society we choose to always put the victims at the front of the line when it comes to our compassion.

Exactly. Student Loans are easy to get and many go that route. Last I bothered to look there was more than $1 trillion in Student Loan debt outstanding in the country and the default rate was creeping upwards.

Yet, even on this thread there are some that advocate for his arrest while seemingly shrugging at those who can avoid the legalities. Strange things we humans.

Excluding the gentlemen that is the topic of this thread, there are hundreds of thousands of adults who have assumed education debt and cannot find a job in their trained fields. They end up in lower paying jobs with no possible way to pay the debt. And no way to discharge it. I believe this is a fault with our system. We expect our young people to get educated yet we do not guarantee them employment in their chosen fields (assuming it isn't basket weaving). Much like home ownership used to be the American dream and people strived to achieve it people also strive to do better in life. But it appears it is increasingly becoming a gamble and not a sure thing.

There is no sense in getting further into the debate until you affirm your beliefs by indicating that you would welcome said rehab'd individual to live as your neighbor. YOUR neighbor, not someone else's; and to meet with and interact with your family. I firmly believe you would find that suggestion ludicrous and that the mere thought sends portions of your mind into horrific fits. Which in affect defeats your position that you hold rehabilitation to be the proper treatment of a murderer. Admit that your logic on the issue is flawed. We all make mistakes. Then we can end this nonsense and move further into the discussion if you wish.

I'm not interested in more punishment and if I conveyed that idea it wasn't my intention. What I believe in is proper punishment. I do not believe that a premeditated murderer deserves an opportunity at rehabilitation. And I don't think they should spend 23 hours a day in a box with no windows. I think they should be allowed to live out their life on an uninhabited island with like-minded individuals and given the appropriate level of tools and care to live in a manner commensurate with their Neanderthal brains. Away from society so that they cannot ever again inflict pain on an innocent being. If that allows room for debate then I would submit it isn't me that is being inhumane or cruel, it is the objector that would prefer a solution that involves inflicting the burden onto an innocent society.

By advocating for rehab you must inherently include a tremendous level of trust in the individual AND demand an unreasonable level of tolerance from society. Nobody will want to live next door to any previously unstable (assuming rehab worked) member of society if they knew they were a murderer. Heck, nobody I know wants to live next door to a car thief! Do you know anyone that would be willing to? You wouldn't I'm sure of it. But for some odd unexplained reason you think someone should have to. It is not societies responsibility to shoulder the burden of another's transgressions. That is the line that should be read at the end of each offenders sentencing hearing. And I would disagree that we are inflicting maximum cruelty on our offenders. From what I understand they have cable TV and access to gym facilities, etc. THERE is your problem. We aren't hard enough on these scumbags in my opinion and so there is no incentive to stop being a poor member of the community.

Before consulting me, have you consulted any of history's most cherished spiritual references? The answer is there. No. I'd rather explore your thought processes on rehabilitation since you introduced the subject in such a way as to accuse humanity (or at least the participants of this thread) of an injustice. People who think passionately are to be commended because of their passion for their fellow man. I think you fall into that category, and I truly commend you for it. However, those types of thinkers often allow their emotions to interfere with logical thought processes. So I'd like an answer to my question. Where do we house those people that have been rehabilitated? What neighborhood? If you are true to your convictions that people can be rehabilitated then the conversation with your newly rehabilitated neighbor should go like this: You: Hey, I just wanted to come introduce myself and to welcome you to the neighborhood. Them: Thanks very much! You: So where are you from? Them: Well, I just got out of rehab. I murdered someone, again. I'm feeling much stronger now and I think I've got a grasp on my issues. You: Great! Hey, why don't you come over for dinner tonight so we can get to know you? You can meet my wife and kids. . . . Somehow, I don't think that would ever happen, do you? So yes, I question your logic on rehabilitation because I think it is clouded by the emotions you bring due to your compassion. But I could be completely out of the ballpark. So please, I'd rather hear from you than have you point me to the scriptures.

The premise is simple: rehabilitation is possible. Program details are for experts working in the field, not me. My premise is based on the teachings of EVERY spiritual tradition in our history. Every highly respected, even worshipped, sage/priest has opined that no one is lost forever. In fact, ironically, this used to be a core value of 3/4 of the population! If we are going to take the position that criminals are on the junk heap of society, we will very soon be outnumbered and living in a walled prison as a scared minority. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk I would also defer to the experts. Many of which have stated that predatory sex offenders cannot be rehabilitated. Lost souls indeed; to the junk heap with them! Assuming you are not excluding murderers in your attempts to save everyone, how many times is one sent to rehab? Each time they kill a person? EDIT: and where do these rehabilitated murderers live when they are *fixed*? I've got to think next door to your family would be just fine with you?

The world trades using the U.S. $. Crude oil is bought and sold in U.S. $. The volatility displayed in that graph is indicative of the turmoil the world is entering regarding the instability of the currency. You can't see or perceive it in your day to day lives. The graph helps to illustrate it. Interestingly enough, things started to get weird after 1972.

Define the parameters of your plans for rehabilitation. I do not and would not ever consider rehabilitation for premeditated murder. You planned it and you carried it out. Essentially you forfeited any Rights to function in a civilized society. EDIT: But at the same time I think reason rehabilitation isn't being discussed is because it is assumed that for the lesser offenses it would be automatic. Such as driving while intoxicated - receive your punishment and then attend the proper classes and such. The punishment of course is customized whether or not damage, death, or injury was a result of the crime. But the rehab is essentially the same.

I did. Here's your solution: read the whole thread. But ultimately how the solutions are implemented are dependent on the specific circumstances of the person/family that desires to implement them. Some may see an opportunity to profit handsomely and others may prefer to just survive. Yet others might consider that it is too late for them and that they should focus on making the coming transitions as painless as possible for their posterity. And still others will assume tin foil in the shape of a hat is in play somewhere. There isn't a single prescription to cure the ills for everyone. The fact that this information is being provided is more than enough for everyone reading it to figure out what is best for them. Think of it as the gift of knowledge and time. Giving detailed instructions on what they should is simply presumptuous.

As I said, oil is the canary in the coal mine. Wild swings seem to be the norm now: up 5% down 5% the next day. This reflects instability in the monetary markets. Electronic money seems to be on the fast track. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-17/ban-cash-coming-soon My sources tell me 2020 at the latest, which will involve a global one world currency. FYI this changes everything. Totalitarianism. Nothing moves and nothing changes hands without the various governments knowing about it or having a piece of it. I've much more to convey but the timing isn't right.

Max2, I respect your opinion but cannot comprehend your willingness to allow the government absolute power...which is really what you seem to be saying. How did it come to be that people believe that the government has ANY rights to you unless you commit a crime? This is incomprehensible to me. Today I would fear what was once common and given no thought...refusing to identify myself to an officer without reason, or wanting to search my car. Did both back in the last days of freedom, but would fear now and don't know whether I'd surrender the last vestiges of an illusion of living in a free country or just cave in. Dave Im from the South which you all can stereo type and I would probably hit on all the guessed keys. I don't like to see privacy and infringement going on. However, I can see the inevitable and its going to be more disclosure. What do yo think Freedom will be like in 100- 150 years with technology hurling out of control like it is? Just think how plugged in the world will be then. Just imagine for a minute. There are going to have to be DRASTIC changes in many avenues. Now think who and what regions will have the technology we have today at that 100+ year point....only hoping we are then, well, well beyond that. How is that going to happen without everyone being somewhat "transparent?" How long before GPS chips are mandatory for newborns or for children? I bet it comes well before X-cons are mandated to have them. Its all about Technology and mix it with Democracy and brother things are going to get much wilder. The country turning in to haves and have-nots is only fueling the turmoil. Desperate people with nothing to lose, brainwashed Xbox junkies massing the AK's and AR's, "Spiritual" Fanatics and few bad immigrants, well they're all coming over for a long stay if they're not already here. Everyone buckle up. Don't worry. A reset is coming. By 2032 we'll have a new form of government. Whether it is a dictatorship or an evolution with an expanded respect for human rights and freedoms with the advancements in technology as a focus remains to be seen. As it looks now it'll be a dictatorship. Either way is fine with me since I'll be looking at it all from a distant shore.

I always thought that a single uninhabited island in the Aleutians would suffice as a livable space for our most violent of criminals (including the 'gentleman' abusing day care children while being infected with aids). Provide the inmates with suitable building equipment (boards, rope, stone) and suitable storage for food. Only the most basic of tools to build with. Make air drops once a month to replenish supplies (clothing, food, firewood, etc.) along with a visit from a medical staff (properly armed and protected by MILITARY SPECIAL FORCES). Only the most basic of tools to build with. Basically how we used to live back about 100 years. If they refuse to conform to a modern civilization throw them back a few decades. No guards necessary; learn to survive and work together, or don't. A single coast guard ship to patrol. Any ships within 10 miles would automatically be sunk. Our Air Force in Alaska could use the target practice. No visitors allowed. No conjugal - they'll take care of that themselves surely. No T.V. no Xbox no NOTHING. No news from the outside. What they can build either physically or governmentally is fine as long as it reflects the values of a civilized society. If it doesn't burn it all down and tell them to try again. Winters would be brutal but hey, the CHOSE to be there. Mind you this would replace the death penalty. Those receiving life sentences under the 'no more death penalty' laws would be placed here. No parole. LIFE SENTENCE. Think of the money we can save and put towards useful citizens.

The library book reference was meant lightheartedly. I agree that as a Nation we are failing in a number of fronts. Including parenting. Perhaps this man's parents never taught him the value of character. I don't have the details other than what the story gave me. If the money was owed to me and he breached a contract I would handle it through available remedies. I certainly wouldn't take as many years as this has taken. And again, it seems to be beyond a logical statute of limitations for the plaintiff to have any rights in the matter, much less have the man arrested.

In the context of this thread the 'character flaw' isn't a murderer. It's a debt forgotten (I'll take the gentlemen at his word until proven otherwise). BTW, we've failed to mention that there might be a statute of limitation on debt? Countries that cut off your hands are not democracies. Would you want to live in one of those? Let's hope that at some point in the future something you do wrong or accidentally doesn't have federal marshals knocking on your door. Are you 100% sure you've returned all those library books you checked out? I'd hate to see you whine on the forums about it.

A country that jails its Citizens because of character flaws and a populace that supports it is destined for a quick demise.

I think failure to appear in such a case would result in a default. Allowing the plaintiff recourse to seek a garnishment. Not the issuance of an arrest warrant. But it isn't our parents' America anymore.

So is the cost of incarceration.