triceratops

Gilbert- If you do decide to go with the Oregon Belles, I would recommend you consider contracting the guy who crated Paul Parrot's Belles for me. The guy has a small custom crating shop in Portland near the airport that specializes in crating electronic equipment and computer stuff. You can see the job he did in the photos Paul posted "Guess What's in the Crate?" I thought his price was very reasonable. I emailed the seller of the Belles when his ad first posted on Ebay and asked if I could inspect the speakers before bidding. He suggested I just look at the photos. I guess I should have looked more closely, because I missed the automobile details you mentioned! Anyway I've decided not to bid on these--I really don't need any more speakers! Best in horns, triceratops

On Cornwalls selling for more than when new, please note that these 1960 Klipsch prices are for single speakers, not stereo pairs. There were still a lot of HiFi mono buffs out there in 1960. Also bear in mind that nearly $400 was a big chunk to pay for a single speaker in 1960, when you could buy a new car for under $2000 and a really nice house in many areas for under $10,000. If you adjust for inflation, Heritage pieces are selling for a fraction of what they cost new. Even so, many other brands of speakers from the same era are just dumpster food now, so the Klipsch stuff has really held its' value well. Klipsch speakers were always a serious investment, and so they were often well cared for. That's why so many of our beloved Heritage pieces are in such good shape today despite being 20, 30, or 40 years old or more! Best in horns, triceratops

OK. Here is the companion pricelist to the spec sheet for Cornwall models from July, 1960. Cool, huh? Anyone who can make it pop up? I'm assuming the "15" in the model number of the Ebay speaker designates a 15-inch woofer, but as some have observed this looks similar to Model H guts in a Cornwall cabinet... Best in horns, triceratops

Here is the first Cornwall Spec sheet from July 1960. It describes some of the variations we've been talking about. If anyone wants to make it pop up, feel free. More stuff coming. Best in horns, triceratops

Thanks Tom, PSG, Paul Parrot, and Khorn58, I had the color Cornwall photos on my hard drive, they are from Khorn58 I believe. You can see the similarities and differences to the Ebay speaker. I've sent Tom another shot that shows the interior. I'll also scan the 1960 Cornwall spec sheet and post it if I can manage that (since I'm digitally challenged). Best in horns, triceratops

Hey Tom! My 1960 Khorns are oiled walnut, so I don't have a Mahogany cabinet to share info on. Like many of the older walnut cabinets it has faded over the years into a teak-like color. I really like the color--it looks like it would be similar to the color of this Cornwall but the grain would obviously be much different. Tom's 1960 pair of Khorns (once refinished) would probably be a perfect match. Attached is a poor photo of one of my 1960 walnut Khorns. Best, triceratops

OK, I jumped the gun a little bit. This isn't the oldest style nor the style that Khorn58 posted. The oldest style Cornwall has short horn cosmetics (trapezoid-shaped grill frame on the front and non-functional grills on the sides). Remember the intention was to make it look like it belonged between two Khorns since it was for center channel. I tried to upload the 1960 Cornwall photo I have but the file is too big. Can I email to someone to modify and post? Anyway this Ebay Cornwall doesn't have those very early cosmetics but it does have the rear port and probably very similar inner workings to the photo I'm trying to post. Best, triceratops

This looks like the Cornwall that Khorn58 has and has posted photos of before. I would love to have this one because the grille cloth matches the grilles on my 1960 Khorns so it would be a great center for them. It would look just like the archival photo of the three channel demo that PWK gave in around 1959 (I think it was the New York show after the Brussels show). There are a couple of problems in my bidding on this. Most important I don't want to bid against seadog if he's going to go for it. Secondly the wood may be mahoghany rather than walnut--I think that is what the "M" stands for and my Khorns are walnut. There is at least one other Forum member with 1960 khorns, and his are Mahoghany if I remember correctly. Tom are you reading this? Lastly Khorn58 and some other Forum members may have an actual matching cabinet--wouldn't it be great to see a couple of 45-year old siblings reunited in a stereo pair for the first time? i wouldn't want to stand in the way of that! Anyway, I will wait to hear everyone's thoughts on the above. Best in horns, triceratops John Derven Eugene, Oregon

When Paul Parrot bought my Belles a few months back, we had a wooden shipping crate custom made of plywood with internal foam blocks that held both speakers. We shipped them from Portland, Oregon to Chicago area by Forward Air. The Forward Air shipping was more expensive than usual because the crate was so damn heavy! But the speakers made the trip like they hadn't even left home. I think the guy charged around $200 for the custom crate but I'm going from memory...Paul, do you remember what the cost was? I will say that crating charges vary wildly--as does quality. I looked around a while to find a guy with experience building crates for shipping electronic equipment for some of the big Northwest High Tech companies. Also he is the owner and personally supervised the guys building the crate. Anyway, maybe you could find someone like that in your neck of the woods to do the job for your Khorns. It wouldn't be that big a deal and it would be much better for air or freight travel than cardboard. And if you can't find someone in your area, the guy in Portland could probably build you the crates and ship them via Forward Air for less than the cost of the Klipsch cardboard boxes... Good luck in your search. Best in horns, triceratops

Thanks cmdridq-- Others here have defended Klipschorns more eloquently and with greater technical knowledge, but I thought my experience might help the reviewer understand the shortcomings of his listening test. Welcome to the best audio forum on the planet! Best regards, triceratops

I pasted my comments below if anyone is interested. Best in horns, triceratops Although this will sound like a cop out, give it some thought anyway: Mid-fi amplification--especially solid state stuff--will render Khorns virtually unlistenable. Even if you were to haul your beloved Spendors down to the store and A/B the two sets of speakers under similar conditions, the Khorns would still lose big time. That means the Khorns are not as good, right? Well, not exactly. Here's my story: A few years ago I had a Sony GX-99ES HT receiver that I used in the two-channel mode to listen to rock, jazz, world beat, and a little classical. I had it set up with a Sony ES series CDP and some little Magnepans and it sounded pleasant--especially with vocal music and jazz. Then some Khorns came up in the local paper. I wasn't looking for Khorns and hadn't even thought about them since I last heard a pair in about 1973. At that time I was very impressed--but this was 2000 and my tastes were obviously much different than in the 1970's. On an impulse, I bought the Khorns and brought them home. When I hooked them up, I thought I would puke. Harsh, unlistenable, "ice-pick-in-the-ear" kind of sound. I A/B'd them with the Maggies and realized I had made a huge mistake. I found the Klipsch Forum and lurked for a while. People talked about caulking the horns to tame ringing, modifying the crossovers, buying some good tube amplification, etc. I wasn't buying any of it. If one pair of speakers sound good in a set up and the others sound bad and everything else is the same, the speakers must be at fault. End of story. In the past, I've never had to modify speakers or my system to make them listenable. So I sold the Khorns and moved on. But something funny happened. I thought about the comments on the Klipsch Forum over the next few months and when a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls came up locally, I decided to try horns again (these have all the same drivers as the Klipschorns but the woofer is not horn-loaded). Since then I have owned 5 pairs of Klipsch Cornwalls, 4 pairs of Klipsch Heresys, 2 pairs of Belle Klipsch, 1 pair of Klipsch LaScalas, and a 2nd pair of Klipschorns. I've recently narrowed things down to just one pair of Belle Klipsch and one pair of 1960 Klipschorns. Why did I accumulate so many? The first Cornwalls I tried were in a different home than my original Klipschorns and with a different amplifier (Eico HF-81 push-pull tube unit). They sounded phenomenal--dynamic, lively, realistic, and NOT harsh. I couldn't understand why there would be such a huge difference, so I started buying up different generations and models of Klipsch Heritage speakers (the older styles that use the same drivers as Khorns) to experiment. Was there something wrong with my earlier Klipschorns, or some variations in sound due to model years? It turns out that there are variations in the drivers and crossovers over the years. Of course the various Klipsch Heritage models each have their own personalities, too. But in general, there more similarities than differences. What really made the difference was a change in amplification, a change in my listening room, and a change in my attitude. I slowly realized that horn speakers are like a magnifying glass. They reveal things all along the signal stream that are not apparent with less efficient speakers. You'll hear hum and noise that you never heard before in your system. You'll hear mistakes in recordings like an obnoxious rattle in the studio, or an overloaded microphone in a vocal part. And you'll hear just how dirty and distorted the first watt out of your amplifier sounds. Are these things you want to hear? Of course not--but fix the glitches, use high quality components in a well set up room, select well recorded material, and just maybe you'll discover what is driving the cult following for these speakers. Here's an analogy: in the 1970s(?) Henry Kloss started Advent and one of his key breakthrough products was the Advent Videobeam--the first big-screen consumer TV. I read a review of the Videobeam in a magazine when the product first was released. Among the reviewers observations were that he could see things that weren't seen with a conventional TV. The sets of some game shows were tattered and soiled, the shadows of boom mikes became obvious, and while watching a soap opera he realized that the actress in an emotional scene had tears that were obviously glued to her face! Now that big screen high-definition TVs are common, the networks have cleaned things up a lot. But being able to actually see these details on a big screen, is a lot like being able to hear incredible detail on a horn speaker. Horn speakers obviously not for everyone, but I've become a convert mostly due to the lively, dynamic sound that was noted in this review. Under the best conditions they sound like music--real live music. triceratops

---------------- On 8/14/2004 1:12:30 AM jazman wrote: "Brick House"= Ohio Players ---------------- Doh!! I knew I should have looked it up before attributing that to the Isleys! Actually, Jazman, I think we're both wrong. It should have been the Commodores! Boogie on down, Thebes! Best in horns, triceratops

Well Thebes, It's a little tough not knowing the twins as well as you do... How about some POLKA MUSIC from Al Yankovic--Weird Al's Dad? "Roll Out the Barrel" always seems to get the party started at the weddings I've been to in upstate PA! Or maybe "Brick House" by the Isley Bros? Or maybe "Sharp Dressed Man" by ZZ Top? I think the sombrero qualifies you for that description! Give the twins a kiss for me... Best in horns, triceratops

The 1982 Heresys have been sold to a very active Forum member. Thanks to all who inquired. It will take me most of a week to box and ship, then close to a week for delivery. But in a couple weeks he should be a happy boy! Yet another installment in the Forum swap-a-rama! Best in horns, triceratops

Congrats, Jim! Thanks for doing a cool thing, Neo! Best in horns, triceratops

Hi Neo, I have a Welborne Labs 300B DRD SET pair being built for me by a longtime buddy on the East Coast. He had built a pair of Welborne 300B Laurels previously and we thought it would be fun to compare the two amps. He is burning the new DRD amps in as we speak. One thing he noted right away was that his amps had more hum than the DRDs. Then he swapped tubes with the EH Gold Grids I sent him (I purchased them from Echo Audio) and the hum went away. He realized that his tubes had deteriorated over the years and where generating more noise. I would love to have the Electro Harmonics Gold Grids to give to him so he could have a better pair to listen to and to compare the two generations of Welborne amps. Thanks for your consideration. Best in horns, triceratops

Hi Charlieboy, Thanks for your interest in the Heresys and sorry for the delay in responding. I was travelling back to Oregon from the East Coast on a work-related trip with a very tight schedule so I was off line for a couple of days. I have sent PMs to you and the two other Forum Members who sent me inquiries before yours. If you have still not received my reply please send me your Email address and I will respond directly. Best in horns, triceratops

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Tom-- Thanks for the help with the images and the packing testimonial! I feel if I don't have the original packing, then I have to create something that is at least as good. Many of our Forum Heritage speakers are 20, 30, 40 years old and still making wonderful music. They deserve to be treated with respect! Paul-- Thanks also for the testimonial. My friend was really stoked about the autographed Fixx album--many thanks for your generosity. Best in horns, triceratops Eugene, Oregon

Please see post and photos in 2-Channel stereo forum. Best regards, triceratops

Here's what the innards look like.

Here are the backs. Enlarge to see serial numbers.

View of the top and one side of both cabinets.