JimMeader
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Posts posted by JimMeader
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my 15 inch 25 year old Velodyne needs to be refoamed, so I am currently using a 10 inch Polk sub. Surprisingly is does a good job at normal listening levels crossed over at 120 it really fills in for the La Scala's, turn it up and it distorts quicly
BTW my La Scala's are raised up to a level that the Squaker is at ear level not the Tweeter in my 17X22 room with 14ft ceilings and a listening position that is 14 feet away from the speakers which are about 11-12 feet apart. It has taken a lot of experimentation and out side of the box ideas but now the room is filled with music even if you are walking around, in addition the sound in other rooms is still very enjoyable.
To each their own and always enjoy the Music
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@Babadono
I noticed you have brick in the lower half of your back wall, it seems that would cause hard surface bounce for a sound room ??????
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Thank You all for the discussion.
I have 1987 La Scala's ( updated all 3 drivers and crossovers ) in a 17x20 room with 10 ft walls and then another 4 ft in a rounded ceiling on the 20 length .
The rounded ceiling has a significant impact on how the room is sounded as well as my MLP is 14 ft from the speakers with a 72 inch TV in between, and 10 ft wall to wall heavy curtains behind the speakers
Currently my La Scala's are 8 feet apart and sitting on a 12 inch risers, this location provides a very enjoyable room filling sound with a slightly elevated sound stage. A old Velodyne UDL 15 fills in the base.
This arrangement has come after months of trying to get the room effect to meet my needs. I am a firm believer that your room is a major portion of the sound you hear. BTW ,sounded terrible along the long wall due to the rounded ceiling. Also the the wall to wall curtain wall sounds better than the opposite bare wall
Once again Thanks for all your comments
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Yes, but still asking the question. if no one has done it how do we know it would not be better ???????
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I went to a Christmas Concert last night and the 100 piece plus orchestra was great as well as the sound system.
I started thinking about the concert hall and its setup. If you think of the last concert you went to and or even concert halls where was the sound coming from. Last night and most times the sound was coming from speakers located above the stage at or near the ceiling pointing down to the audience.
A lot of people are trying to replicate LIVE Music with our speakers yet we keep trying to do this with speakers sitting on stands or floor standing speakers. Why has no one used ceiling mounted speakers. To me Ceiling mounted speakers would have the best uninterrupted path to where we are sitting and listening. There would be no furniture in the way, nothing in the way of first reflection point etc.
I addition to this thought process what about putting a down firing sub woofer hung from the center of the ceiling. Think about it the sub sound waves are larger than the rest and would have the longest uninterrupted path if coming from the ceiling.
Your thoughts?????
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First update all drivers, Second - Update to highest level Windows the machine is capable
You did not mention how you use a computer, use will determine longevity. This is a "work Station" which can limit some of your future update options.
Just remember all current software and hardware "assumes" current computers. I would start saving for a new Costco computer
Good luck
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I went the veneer rout on my 1987 La Scala. They were a garage find, everything was scratched, dented and abused. But the cabinets we still tight.
I went with 1/2 inch MDF on all exterior sides to provide a clean surface for the veneer. This also totally eliminated any cabinet "ringing" which the older La Scala's are know for.
It took 3 4x8 sheets of veneer to cover the exterior and dog house areas and to get all the grain to flow right Local Reno cost for veneer was just under $70 a sheet.
The dog house is the issue, a real pain in the XXXX If you can live with painted dog house your project will go 50% faster and your alcohol consumption will be less
BTW be sure put a bead of glue on all the inside seams of the dog house and get a new sealing for the bottom piece of plywood to make it air tight.
Your at a point to consider the following:
Consider cutting the top part of your La Scala's off and then adding a new bottom to that portion ( think current LS design ) to create a second box.
Why the base bin sound is not as directional as the tweeter and squaker are. By having the top two drivers in their own separate box will help in room placement and sound stage as you can put them at any angle needed.
I did no do this but would if I ever did another set This mod is strictly about enhancing room placement flexibility and makes directing the tweeter to listening ear height a lot easier.
FYI the 1/2 mdf takes away that Live Sound of the old La Scala's but gives you a much more refined sound more in tune with today current models
Good Luck just remember the best day is when you get to fire them up again My first song was Dire Straits You and Your Friend it will definitely put a smile on your face
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just got to 330 as of Friday list update so I figure around the first of the new year
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jcmusic sent PM
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Wow jcmusic less than 1 watt. I want to be there but I have no experience with anything close to that level amp power being effective.
My La Scala's were originally designed as PA speakers where 5 watts were typical, my 87's may have had some changes but were still a PA loud speaker at that time. I happen to like the horn sound and its ability to fill a room with sound. I also believe that half of what you hear is speaker placement and the room they are in. Also the La Scala's were designed for vocals ( speeches ) base was not a major need, so use a sub and get over the lack of base.
All this tells me a low watt ( 5 watts ) amp can work, but the at the same time Klipsch rates this speaker for use with over 100 watts.
The concept of trying a $1-3,000 or more amp and then resell it if I do not like it - is not me. Because of all of the above and the lack of my experience of low watt apps all of your comments are very much appreciated
Like I said before the Decware Torii Jr V2 remains my amp of choice
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The Rachel was my first choice as a single amp. Now two SE34.6 are out of my budget range, but would be, in my opinion, the best option for me. A single SE341.6 is still 5-6 watts which is just marginally better than the base units for my needs so not really a long term option.
The Torii Jr V2 is a solid 20 watts which should be more than enough for my needs, just not a SET amp which was my original goal
Sometimes you have to compromise and the Torii Jr V2 seems the best fir for me
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So it looks like the SET type amps will drive my speakers for normal listening without an issue, but become less capable beyond that. Given my room volume and 14 ft listening position I think more than 2.5 watts even with mono blocks will be needed for me
Decware has the Torii Jr V2 which I am on the LONG waiting list for. At 20 watts per channel it should be enough for my system and room. Since it is a push/pull design I will miss the true SET sound, but as Steve markets, it has "SET transparency"
As with all things there comes a point where you have to put a stake in the sand and move forward.
Thanks to all that provided their input
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tromprof within my system I have DSP capability where I can send everything down to say 100htz to my mains and then send everything from say 120htz below to my sub with its own 400 watt sub
This should help the low watt Decware from a load stand point
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Schu I am currently on the waiting list for the Decware Torii Jr v2 ( push pull ) at 20 watts. Based on your comments I thinking this should work for my system and room also looking into the Firstwatt J2 ( used ) putting it in the same price range
any thoughts
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My concern is with the distance to my listening position and the cubic volume of my room might require more watts
I am sure for Normal listening they will be fine, but occasionally I do like to turn it up. Right now I am using a Crown XLI 1500 which has 450 watts, which is way to much, so I keep it at 25% and use a pre-amp for volume control
I was hoping to get a wider and deeper sound stage by going to the SET tube amps
Schu which Decware model and how big is your listening room
Thanks you for helping me out
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Looking at the Alan Eaton and Decware SET amps
anyone using them with La Scala's
my room is 17X20 with rounded ceilings reaching 14 feet at the top , so high cubic volume
Listening position is 12 feet from speakers
Your comments would be greatly appreciated
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I have 1987 La Scala's with all new Crites drivers and cross overs. My room is 17X20 with high ceiling ( rounded 14ft at top )
My music is digitized CD's played thru a MiniDSP SHD into a Schit Freya S ( non tube ) preamp out to a Crown XLI1500 ( Class A/B ).
MiniDSP SHD volume set at 95%, Schit Freya S controls volume for system, Crown volume set to about 25%
Given this setup speaker placement was critical ending about 6 feet apart and about 2 feet away from back wall.
Center stage is well defined but not as deep as I would like, room treatment could help here. Sound is clear, instrument location easy to determine. sound is cooler versus tube warm.
I can easily enjoy 1/2 a day enjoying the music, just ask my wife
you can get a new Crown XLS 1502 for just under $400 or used for much cheaper. Also there are many ChiFi options which can allow you to test your system
Hope this helps and Enjoy the Music
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My 87's looked similar as long s the doghouse is soild you can make them look great and sound outstnading
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Yes I would agree building and veneering are almost equal in required work.
As to La Scala's there are many good detailed plans on the web so I would build next time. Why, first I would build two boxes separating the woofer from the mid and tweeter, because that would allow better room positioning during setup. Second my La Scala's are very heavy to move around having the weight split would make moving and positioning easier.
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we used 3 4x8 sheets of veneer @ $60.00 a sheet for my La Scala's
how you run the grain has a big impact on how much veneer you end up using.
the sides we ran them top to bottom, in the dog house we ran the grain front to back.
We did paper templates of all pieces and then laid them out on the veneer - I would highly recommend this process but verify measurements before you cut.
you need a large flat surface to cut the veneer a clamped metal straight edge helps as well as a very sharp knife
we also used a metal roller to get the veneer flat with no glue bumps
any trimming was done the next day
Good Luck
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The good news is for about $20.00 you can by the mat and try it. If you do not like it then take it off no big deal.
I did it to my 1987 La Scala's. Was there a difference to me, yes was it a big difference No. These type of changes make minor changes to the sound at most.
The single biggest difference you can make to your system is speaker placement in YOUR ROOM. Go to YouTube and do a search on speaker placement, it may not seem like a big issue but it will make the biggest difference in any system.
Enjoy the Music
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I have veneered my 1987 La Scala's, and it is not easy, basically the issue is inside of the dog house. It is a slow pain in the *** process.
We used a small piece of railroad track ( very heavy ) and a lot of sand bags to put pressure on the veneer during the drying process. Allowed one full day for each piece for a total of 6 days for the dog house area alone.
Also I did not put veneer all the way back within the dog house. I stopped where the center section juts out. I choose to paint the part that juts out and all the area behind that flat black before we veneered. when your looking at the finished product you do not even notice it as it is dark in that area anyway.
BTW even my wife likes the end result. Hope this helps
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Agreed that all three will work.
Remember the original La Scala's were designed around the need for 5 watt amp so a lot of watts is not needed.
Now that you have La Scala's your room is the next biggest issue. It takes time to find the right speaker positioning, they Do Not have to be equal, also you may want to try tilting your speakers so the tweeters can be aimed at your ears at your seating position.. Everything depends on your room size, your wife and your furniture. Take the time, find your favorite music, something you really like and use it for the speaker positioning.
Your looking for center stage and depth as you test.
Good Luck and most importantly enjoy the music
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To answer your first question, besides volume and input control what does a pre-amp do.
Pre-amps are designed primarily as part of a separates HIFI system. where each item in your system is in a separate box, ie CD Player, record player, digital streamer, DAC, pre-amp going into your amp
Where as modern integrated amps (AVR) is the opposite because they have everything in one box: multiple source inputs, a DAC, a preamp , amplifier duties switching duties, multiple speaker outputs,and last digital EQ.
Some separate type amplifiers, typically a tube amp can benefit from a hotter signal ( greater than 2 volts ) to perform at its optimum. Some pre-amps provide this hotter signal via volume control. Pre-amps can be tube or non tube.
My system is made up of a MiniDSP SHD ( streamer, DAC, preamp, EQ, ) a windows 10 PC running Audirvan Studio player /streamer which sends a digital signal via my home network to the MiniDSP SHD, XLR out to a Crown XLI 1500 out to Klipsch La Scala's and an old Velodyne Sub
This works great, good center stage but light on the depth of the center stage . Room 17X20 with 14 foot high ceilings
I just added a Schit Freya S Pre-Amp ( no tubes ) between the MiniDSP and the Crown amp.
The Freya S provides up to 12 volts out via XLR connections. Why did I add the new preamp because in the future I will have a Decware Torii Jr which responds well to more than 2 volts input
What did it do, increased imaging ( center stage ) and depth. Was it dramatic no, was it noticeable yes
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I hope this helps.
Random thoughts on our systems
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
@CWOReilly
How do you like your tweeters When I rebuilt my La Scala's I rounded the edges of the motor board around both tweeters and Squakers- not sure if it made that much difference but it do not hurt anything either.
did you change your crossovers also