DizRotus

We seem to be in agreement.......I think.

---------------- On 4/11/2005 3:23:18 PM D-MAN wrote: So I guess it boils down to the type of music. DM ---------------- Agreed.

Don't get me wrong. I too listen to loud music at times. Nevertheless, more often I find that the volume level chosen by others is louder than I would choose on my own. Perhaps it was 1 1/2 years (74 -76) of listening to rock/pop/disco at ear bleed levels from my mobile DJ business. Four Speakerlab SK-Horns powered by 600 watts of Dynaco SS power could never be too loud for the crowd. I speak from experience when I say that EV tweeters (Klipsch Heritage) are easily repaired. I did it monthly.

---------------- On 4/11/2005 2:01:33 PM DeanG wrote: "What's your point? Are you merely restating the obvious, that BB only sells speakers that are inferior to those mentioned? Your comment could be taken as an implication that Klipsch Heritage speakers are mediocre horn system(s). My point is that the aforementioned speakers not only sound better than anything ever sold by Best Buy, but can also sound better than anything ever made by Klipsch -- if not being driven with good gear.---------------- Yo do mean if the Klipsch are "not being driven by good gear" don't you? You're not suggesting that the aforementioned speakers driven by poor gear would still sound better than Klipsch driven by good gear, are you?

It must be a geezer thing (56 yo), but a trip to AKFest has me thinking that too many people listen to music that is too damn loud. Next I'll be yelling, "Hey you kids stay out of my yard." I've come to the conclusion that most music has an optimal volume beyond which the sound is not improved. The danger with highly efficient Klipsch speakers is that excess volume does not bring some of the cues, such as distortion or clipping, that are present when inefficient direct radiators are played too loudly by underpowered amps.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> More frequently I find myself listening to music at lower volumes which allow the dynamics to shine through. The difference between the quieter and louder passages seems to be more apparent when everything is not too loud.

---------------- On 4/11/2005 9:56:49 AM DTLongo wrote: I am being subjective here but part of the reason I am enjoying my '03 Klipschorns and '04 Belle purchased new is that they ARE vintage, time-enduring and yet still contemporary classics, like a Steinway grand piano. Yes there is a pride of ownership in that sense too, in addition to how great they sound. ---------------- DTLongo- Your comments are well taken. "Anything new" was not intended to include Klipsch Heritage. Your reasons for preferring new are eminently reasonable and well understood.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Realistically, jhamer9 was not considering new Klipsch Heritage (other than possibly Heresy) to go with the newly acquired used HK 430 receiver. The point of the post was to point out that Klipsch Heritage speakers (used and new) have stood the test of time. I hoped to demonstrate how unlikely it is that anything else that is new would still be sold essentially unchanged decades later (as your excellent speakers are).

---------------- On 4/11/2005 11:05:49 AM DeanG wrote: "Many of the forum members have owned speakers such as Quad ESL, Dhalquist, Magnepan, etc., each of which, when used properly , has the potential to sound better than anything ever sold at Best Buy." Well yeah, I guess so. Driven with good stuff, those speakers sound better than any medicore horn system. ---------------- Dean What's your point? Are you merely restating the obvious, that BB only sells speakers that are inferior to those mentioned? Your comment could be taken as an implication that Klipsch Heritage speakers are mediocre horn system(s). I doubt that was your intention. It was my intention to indicate to jhamer9 that many forum members, i.e., many Klipsch Heritage owners, have settled on Klipsch Heritage with proper associated equipment after owning speakers such as those mentioned. It was my goal to quickly put the collective decisions of the many Klipsch Heritage owners into a perspective that would enable jhamer9 to understand why, IMHO, selecting a used Klipsch Heritage speaker to go with the HK 430 would be less risky than selecting anything from BB.

Wendy put the "TRANS" back in transducer.

Lest there be any misunderstanding, by "elders" I'm referring to the timeless Klipsch Heritage speakers not myself or other even more geriatric forum members. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Opinions are like bodily orifices, everyone has them. Mine are no better than the next persons. Each person should take them for what theyre worth. That said, its wise to not ignore the collective wisdom of five decades of satisfied Klipsch heritage owners and users.

They ONLY Neil Diamond song that I ever liked is Cherry Cherry. The rest exist only to make Barry Manilow sound good.

Bill H's point is well taken. By all means take advantage of a 30 day trial, if at the end of 30 days you can get a full refund--not just a store credit. After more than 30 days of listening pleasure, if I decide to sell my '82 Heresys or '84 Cornwalls (not likely) it would be easy to get more than the $335 and $475, respectively, that I paid for them by, relisting them on Ebay. And, "I don't need no stinkin' receipts." Try doing that on day 31 with the latest and "greatest" that BB has to offer.

jhamer9 http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=64023&sessionID={FACD9616-1C7F-4EAF-B018-F5BDBCBFA49B} You said, I'd be able to listen and hear which sounds best. I agree that listening and deciding what sounds best to you is critically important, would that it were that simple. The problem is, excellent speakers can sound mediocre in poor environments with the wrong equipment (read Best Buy), while mediocre speakers might sound great in a store (again read Best Buy) but fail to live up to the audition when used in your home, irrespective of placement and equipment tinkering.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> When I, and many of the others on this forum, recommend Klipsch Heritage speakers, its because weve owned and listened to them for decades, in our homes, in the homes of friends, in stores, in recording studios, etc. Ive heard every Klipsch Heritage speaker--from Khorns to Heresiessound fantastic when properly set up, or sound dreadful when used with poor equipment or improperly placed in a space. Unless you have a similar opportunity with any new speaker, IMHO long term satisfaction is more of a crap shoot with a new speaker than buying a used Klipsch Heritage. Go to a library and peruse the back issues of audio magazines to read the rave reviews of the newest and "greatest" speakers that have come and gone in the last fifty years. How many of those speakers are still available and valuednew or usedtoday? Clearly, and thankfully, Klipsch Heritage speakers are not everyones cup of tea; otherwise the used prices would skyrocket. Nevertheless, Klipschorn, La Scala, Belle, Cornwall and Heresy speakers have endured, essentially unchanged, for decades because, when used with the right equipment and in the right environment, they produce a sound that we feel cannot be equaled or surpassed at anything close to the cost. Many of the forum members have owned speakers such as Quad ESL, Dhalquist, Magnepan, etc., each of which, when used properly , has the potential to sound better than anything ever sold at Best Buy. My own BBC LS3/5As with KEF B139 transmission line subs are relegated to HT use. They are excellent, albeit power hungry, speakers that cost much more than the used Klipsch Heritage that I prefer when I listen to music. Take your receiver to BB and see if they will let you use it to play their speakers, or ask BB if you can bring the speakers to your space. The answer will probably be no. Nevertheless, many people on this forum have done essentially that by hooking up with nearby members who invite them to their homes to hear their Klipsch Heritage speakers. Everyone listens to used speakers, but Klipsch Heritage fanciers listen to speakers that have been made and enjoyed for decades. Ultimately, you must be happy with your purchase.

jhamer9 You said, I'd be able to listen and hear which sounds best. I agree that listening and deciding what sounds best to you is critically important, would that it were that simple. The problem is, excellent speakers can sound mediocre in poor environments with the wrong equipment (read Best Buy), while mediocre speakers might sound great in a store (again read Best Buy) but fail to live up to the audition when used in your home, irrespective of placement and equipment tinkering. When I, and many of the others on this forum, recommend Klipsch Heritage speakers, its because weve owned and listened to them for decades, in our homes, in the homes of friends, in stores, in recording studios, etc. Ive heard every Klipsch Heritage speaker--from Khorns to Heresyssound fantastic when properly set up, or sound dreadful when used with poor equipment or improperly placed in a space. Unless you have a similar opportunity with any new speaker, IMHO long term satisfaction is more of a crap shoot with a new speaker than buying a used Klipsch Heritage.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Go to a library and peruse the back issues of audio magazines to read the rave reviews of the newest and greatest speakers that have come and gone in the last fifty years. How many of those speakers are still available and valuednew or usedtoday? Clearly, and thankfully, Klipsch Heritage speakers are not everyones cup of tea; otherwise the used prices would skyrocket. Nevertheless, Klipschorn, La Scala, Belle, Cornwall and Heresy speakers have endured, essentially unchanged, for decades because, when used with the right equipment and in the right environment, they produce a sound that we feel cannot be equaled or surpassed at anything close to the cost. Many of the forum members have owned speakers such as Quad ESL, Dhalquist, Magnepan, etc., each of which, when used properly , has the potential to sound better than anything ever sold at Best Buy. My own BBC LS3/5As with KEF B139 transmission line subs are relegated to HT use. They are excellent, albeit power hungry, speakers that cost much more than the used Klipsch Heritage that I prefer when I listen to music. Take your receiver to BB and see if they will let you use it to play their speakers, or ask BB if you can bring the speakers to your space. The answer will probably be no. Nevertheless, many people on this forum have done essentially that by hooking up with nearby members who invite them to their homes to hear their Klipsch Heritage speakers. Everyone listens to used speakers, but Klipsch Heritage fanciers listen to speakers that have been made and enjoyed for decades. Ultimately, you must be happy with your purchase.

Iron Butterfly's Inna Godda Da Vida

That little speaker started life as a Bose 501, but then it realized it was a Heresy trapped in a Bose enclosure, and it was surgically altered. It's lived happily ever after.

With patience you could find something within a reasonable drive. Then you could test them. A 1.5 volt battery will let you hear that the tweeters and squawkers are working and it will let you see the woofer move. If a Klipsch Heritage tweeter (Electro Voice) is toast, the diaphragm is easily replaced DIY or can be done for less than $50 by a technician.

At 100-400 watts you'd run the risk of frying the tweeters (been there and done that). With 25 watts from the HK 430 they would be perfect. My Cornwalls sing with ~11 watts of tube power. I understand that you want new speakers, but I don't understand why. You have an excellent used receiver. If you spend more than the $400 that would score used Heresys (I or II) and get inferior sound, it makes little sense to me. New Heresy IIs will cost considerably more than used Is or IIs and won't sound any better. In any case, don't sweat the power with any efficient Klipsch speaker. Get what pleases you. Please let us know what you get.

Heresys, preferably Is, bought well from eBay or elsewhere plus a used HK 430 are the best bang for the buck in audio IMHO. My son uses his HK 430 to power '82 Heresys (HK 430 and Heresys all for less than $400 from eBay). With efficient Klipsch speakers the power to size ratio is counter intuitive. We hooked the HK 430 up to Cornwalls and they played louder than the Hereseys at the same position on the volume control. Your fine HK 430 would produce a prodigious amount of low distortion volume from any Klipsch Heritage speaker and most other Klipsch speakers.

Make that Sunday AM. The wife reminded me of a prior PM commitment.

Make that Sunday AM. The wife reminded me of a prior PM commitment.

I'll be there Sunday PM. I'm looking forward to meeting Craig and seeing and hearing what NOSValves brings.

Craig, I plan to stop by on Sunday in the early afternoon. By then you'll be able to point me to the interesting stuff--not as interesting as your's of course. I look forward to meeting you in person.

This is an unsual listing. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61378&item=5765583992&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW The provenance seems to appeal to the bidders.

The original post regarding these Cornwall IIs is at the link below. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=63579&sessionID={7C53B274-BA67-42A6-8C17-4FA84BB647A6} Since creating that post, Ive exchanged emails with Grant Okamura. The Cornwalls are recessed into the acoustical tile. Look closely at the gap in the tile around the riser on the left. It is easier to cut acoustical tile than to saw plywood. What you see through the ports is the unfinished wood. Ive attached part of the response from Dr. Okamura (typos intact). He explains how they came to be wall mounted, why it was a mistake and how much better they are when used properly. The Klipsch Cornwalls don't sound very good in that configuration. Our AV guy just went in and placed them up there and I wished he had consulted with me before doing it. I've spent years as an audio consultant and have designed speakers and used to do modifications to amps and stuff. Have not done the amps stuff recently and advances in amp design has left me behind. I love tube amps and there are only a few transistor amps that I think are ok. But I still do a lot of audio work. The Cornwalls don't work very well in its present location. The tweeter and midrange fire way over the heads of the students and they sound their best standing in the percussion section. They are spaced too far apart for good imaging. Because its on the balcony face the surface area does not give enough reinforcement to the bass and they sounds really thin. On my equipment it has a roll off around 110 so it sounds more like a midrange speaker. I sometimes bring it a subwoofer that I designed and it sounds much better. We have another set of Cornwalls in a different room and it sounds very good there. It has a very exciting sound with a bit of resonances here and there but they seem pretty controlled. The solid surface to which the speakers are attached is several inches behind the surface of the acoustical tile, i.e., the need to cut openings in the tile the shape of the speakers. The tile would never support the weight of the Cornwalls.

Since creating this post, Ive exchanged emails with Grant Okamura. The Cornwalls are recessed into the acoustical tile. Look closely at the gap in the tile around the riser on the left. It is easier to cut acoustical tile than to saw plywood. What you see through the ports is the unfinished wood. The view through the ports of my Cornwalls is the same, and I assure you that they have not been sawed rip-style. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Ive attached part of the response from Dr. Okamura (typos intact). It should be interesting and it might help to persuade you that no one was stupid enough to cut the speakers rather than cut the tile to fit the speakers. The Klipsch Cornwalls don't sound very good in that configuration. Our AV guy just went in and placed them up there and I wished he had consulted with me before doing it. I've spent years as an audio consultant and have designed speakers and used to do modifications to amps and stuff. Have not done the amps stuff recently and advances in amp design has left me behind. I love tube amps and there are only a few transistor amps that I think are ok. But I still do a lot of audio work. The Cornwalls don't work very well in its present location. The tweeter and midrange fire way over the heads of the students and they sound their best standing in the percussion section. They are spaced too far apart for good imaging. Because its on the balcony face the surface area does not give enough reinforcement to the bass and they sounds really thin. On my equipment it has a roll off around 110 so it sounds more like a midrange speaker. I sometimes bring it a subwoofer that I designed and it sounds much better. We have another set of Cornwalls in a different room and it sounds very good there. It has a very exciting sound with a bit of resonances here and there but they seem pretty controlled. The solid surface to which the speakers are attached is several inches behind the surface of the acoustical tile, i.e., the need to cut openings in the tile the shape of the speakers. The tile would never support the weight of the Cornwalls.