arena

i live in santa barbara, california. about an hour to an hour and a half north of los angeles, depending on how fast i drive.

about a year ago i purchased some klipsch rp3s that i power with a harmon kardon hk3370 reciever. while the rp3s sound fantastic, i've been wondering lately how my setup would compare with heritage speakers powered by tubes. unfortunately i'm on a tight budget (college student, unemployed) so i was wondering if there is any way for me to audition tubes or heritage speakers without actually having to purchase them. in general, how would rp3s compare with tube powered heritage speakers, like heresies, la scala etc. i don't really want to hear the usual "no two speakers sound the same, what's important is whatever sounds best to you". what are some of the specific ways the rp3s and heritage speakers would sound different? strengths weaknesses etc. thanks

"no match for rf7's,rsw15 by any scientific measurement." i felt the same way until i actually heard both set ups. for two-channel music an integrated sub per channel always sounds more balanced than a single independant sub, at least in my experience.

if i can recommend an alternative to both the rf3s and the rb5/rsw10 combination, you should seriously consider picking up a pair of rp3s. i cannot recommend them enough. about two years ago i decided to get some good speakers, and i too considered purchasing mains and an independant subwoofer. what i learned was that an independant sub NEVER sounds as good as a sub built into the mains in two channel applications. what you get in rp3s is a horn loaded tweater, midrange driver, and 10 inch sub with an internal 440 watt amplifier, and as far as music is concerned, i prefer the sound of the rp3s to even the rf-7s with an independant rsw15. the bass and overall sound is far more smooth and balanced. two ears, two channels, two subs. it just makes sense. the rf series seems primarily designed for home theater, but if you are primarily interested in music (as i am) you will not find a better sounding speaker for anywhere near the price of rp3s. this is true because they were recently discontinued by klipsch in favor of dedicated home theater mains such as the rf3s. you will still be able to wire the subs on the rp3s for home theater using the lfe inputs if you want to end up with a home theater system eventually. originally the rp3s sold for $1500 from klipsch, but now with a little patience you can pick them up on ebay for around $500 (i got mine for less), which is an absolute steal. the only reason they sell for so cheap is that everyone is looking for home theater speakers, and the rp3s are primiarily 2 channel music speakers, but again, they can also be used for home theater. but don't just take my word for it, the rp3s recieved outstanding reviews at audioreview.com. click here to read them: http://www.audioreview.com/Main,Speaker/Klipsch,RP-3/PRD_119964_1594crx.aspx

some argue that the seals/foam/rubber surrounding and connected to the drivers may take a few hours to soften or loosen up fully and allow for the full range of movement and correct time response, but this would only take a few hours at most. it will take your ears much longer to adjust to the new sound of your speakers. basically speakers don't "break in", your ears do.

i have my speakers bi-wired using monster cable m1.4s biwire cable that I got off ebay for $65. dedicated bi-wire cable is the easiest way to hook up bi-wireable speakers as far as I'm concerned, and the 1.4s seems like the cheapest bi-wire cable out there. i checked the subs and with the amp (harmon kardon hk3370) off and the rp3s in standby and there is a slight hiss if you put your ear right against the sub, but it is so quiet i never noticed it before. obviously the hiss doesn't bother me if this is the first time i've heard it. if it bothers you, try pretending that it's just one of those 'sounds of mother ocean' cds people buy at the mall. if i turn the amp on and set it to cd but have the cd player off (ie no signal to the rp3s) there is also a very quiet hiss in the tweeter and mid that you can only hear with your ear resting up against the speaker grill. but again, this doesn't bother me. how often will i want the amp on but the cd player off? if the hiss on your rp3s is loud enough to irritate you, try bi-wiring them and removing the gold straps instead of hooking up the subs via the lfe input. maybe hooking up the subs through the lfes amplifies the hiss somehow. also try plugging the speakers into different outlets than your cd player/amp/other speaker, although you've probably already tried this. anyway, even if you can't get rid of the hiss, it's a small price to pay for such great speakers.

i have a pair of rp3s and have also heard the higher end external subs in home theater set ups (local shop has the rsw-15 in a listening room with the rest of the rf-7 series) and can tell you that the subs in the rp3s are better for music, but the independant sub is better for home theater. i had heard that bass sound is nondirectional/omnidirectional, but my ears tell me a different story. as far as music is concerned having two 10' subs in a 2 channel setup sounds far better and more balanced than a single rsw-15. 2 channels, 2 ears, 2 subs. just makes sense. i would also agree that the bass sounds "tighter" on the rp3s, but that this tightness seems to come as a compromise in home theater applications when compared with the rsw-15 which has a longer throw. so if you're primarily interested in music, go with powered towers like the rp3s that have subs included. believe it or not for music i preferred the sound of my rp3s over the rf-7s with the rsw-15, and the theater room they had them set up in was sonically better than my mother's garage (where i live. don't worry, i'm in college and trying to save some $$$). my rp3 subs simply couldn't compare, however, to the rsw-15 as far as home theater is concerned (i tested using 'saving private ryan'). as for the hiss, when i have my subs in standby they are dead silent. so maybe you should look into one of those thousand dollar power conditioners (just kidding). so if it's music, go for the rp3 sub, if home theater, go for an independant. of course we all know music is better than home theater anyway...

a while ago i bought a pair of rp3s, and they sound so good that my friend has been trying to get a hold of a pair ever since. i guess he couldn't wait because two days ago he purchased a 5.1 system for $250, but i'm worried he got scammed (he doesn't know too much about speakers). here are the things that lead me to believe he wont be getting his money's worth: 1) they are "digital audio" speakers i've found that any speaker that has "digital", "audio", or "reference" written on the cabinet is terrible. 2) the speaker has "800 watts of power" written on the side as well. 800 watts at what, 25% harmonic distortion? 3) he purchased them out of the back of a van. no comment 4) the guy he bought them from said they retailed for $2200 retail price isn't an indication of speaker quality (aka bose) 5) the box the speakers are packaged in has "$2200 retail price" written on the side. i've never seen this before 6) the "manual" included in the box does not list the frequency response of the speakers. when the manufacturer doesn't release frequency response specs, there is usually a reason (again, bose) basically this sounds like the oldest scam in the book, but i was just wondering if there is anyway my friend will not end up feeling completely ripped off. (by the way, he is now asking me what 5.1 reciever he should get to hook these up to, so he may end up being out even more than $250).

do not set up the speakers so that the subs face in. either the sound will reflect off your entertainment center or the sound waves from each sub will meet and amplify, resulting in boomy bass. the rp3s are designed to be set up in such a way that they are an equal distance from each other and your listening position, and also 2 feet from forward from the wall to the rear, and at least 4 feet from each wall on either side (to prevent the sub from reflecting off the walls). i've found that changing the placement of the rp3s and toeing them in affects the sound quality significantly, as is true of most speakers with horn loaded drivers. using the above guidelines (which are also in the user manual that came with the rp3s), keep messing around with the placement until it sounds right.

hopefully i can avoid the speaker cable debate here... i bought a pair of rp3s a while ago, and after trying to biwire them a few different ways (splitters etc) i broke down and bought some monstercable m1.4s biwire cable. this isn't the cheapest solution (about $50-$60 on ebay) but this cable is designed for biwiring, so it is definately the simplest. just hook the left/right inputs at the amp end of the speaker cable to the amp, and at the speaker end the cable splits into 4 ends, marked hi left, hi right, low left, low right. hook each of these ends up to the corresponding post on the rp3, and be sure to take off the gold straps. i don't know what you're experience will be, but i'm under the impression biwiring results in an audible improvement in sound quality. goodluck

the wall that the rp3s are set up against is 20 feet long, so they are far enough away from the side walls to eliminate interference/reflected distortion. the room is also 12 feet deep so i am able to put the rp3s 2 feet out into the room from the back wall, as recommended in the rp3 user manual. with this setup, i get unbelievable bass response without any audible side effects. in order to get improved bass response i would probably have to invest more than $1k. also, i'm using monstercable m950i interconnects and monster cable m1.2s biwire speaker cable. i got them off ebay for cheap, so i'm not interested in spending my upgrade budget on cables either. so far i've heard people recommend i upgrade my cd player to a dedicated unit, or change to a used tube amp. which would result in the most noticeble improvement? also, i would be getting the stuff off ebay, so can anyone recommend any good used equipment? thanks ------------------ two channel old schooler

quote: Originally posted by j-malotky: I sometimes wonder if people post questions like this just see if we are awake - just to stir things up or something like that. JM nope, i had just returned from my local klipsch dealer where i saw the rf7s in person. i had no idea how massive they were. anyway i was bored so i checked out the rf7 review on audioreview.com and one of the reviewers said: "they project the soundstage well and provide reasonably accurate production of the mid and upper frequencies (though horn loading by nature always smooths out a little of some of the more delicate details)" just wanted to see if it was true. thanks for the info. ------------------ two channel old schooler

i heard that horns (especially horn loaded tweeters) sacrifice detail/clarity for efficiency/loudness. any truth to this? ------------------ two channel old schooler

im looking for some new headphones and have narrowed it down to either the sony cd2000 or the sony mdr-v700dj. i will be using the headphones with a portable cd player and a harmon kardon hk3370 reciever. any suggestions? thanks for your input. --------------- two channel old schooler This message has been edited by arena on 08-09-2002 at 02:17 AM

has anyone heard martin logan or other electrostatic speakers? just wondering how you think they stack up against dynamic speakers. ------------------ two channel old schooler

if you're willing to put out $100 for headphones, i can guarantee you will never regret buying a pair of sony mdr-v700dj. they are by far the best headphones i've ever heard in this price range. i know there's more to audio equipment than specs, but just look at the specs for these: frequency response: an incredible 5hz - 30kz. driver diameter: 50 mm power handling: 3000 mW sensitivity: 107 dB/mW here's a pic: http://www.sonystyle.com/images/large/shots/mdrv700dj.jpg these cost $149 at sony but you can get them for $99 at ebay/ubid/various online electronics stores. ------------------ two channel old schooler

if you don't want to hassle with buying an independent sub, you might want to think about the klipsch rp3s. they have an integrated sub and a built in amp. best of all, as these are pretty much dedicated 2 channel speakers, now that 5.1 home theater is so popular, you can pick up rp3s on ebay or ubid for about $600 (original msrp is $1,500). only problem is they are pretty directional, so they may not be good for a dining room unless you have them pointed directly at your dinner table. ------------------ two channel old schooler

quote: Originally posted by SOUNDJUNKIE: Arena, did Klipsch say that this material was stronger than UPS(Useless Package Service) no, as far as i know no man-made substance can withstand the extreme forces exerted by ups (i refer to ups as oops) but hopefully klipsch is working on something. my cousin works at ups and the stories he tells me have led me to decide never to ship anything with ups if i can help it. here's my favorite story: a guy he worked with got one of those label guns and a bunch of labels with his girlfriend's address on them, and right before christmas whenever he saw a package that he thought he wanted he just stuck one of his labels with his girlfriend's address over the original address label, and three or four days later he would go pick up the item at his girlfriend's place. he stole dozens of packages that way, and would probably still be doing it if he wasn't so stupid. after 20 or so packages turned up missing in his department, his boss got concerned. they caught the guy when he rode to work on a mountain bike that had gone missing in his department 3 days before. by the way, after filing a damage claim ups only refunded me $400 for the damaged rp3 even though each speaker retails for $750. so i was stuck with one rp3 and only $400 to find a replacement. it took me a while to find someone willing to split up a pair and send me an individual rp3. for a long time i felt like i was stuck with one shoe. ------------------ two channel old schooler

a car audio expert recommended i use liquid nails when building a sub box for my 1200 watt sub. so far no problems, and it's relatively cheap. ------------------ two channel old schooler

i use an harmon kardon hk3370 amp and a sony cx90es for source with my rp3s, and everything sounds great. i can't really recommend anything beyond this as that's all i've heard, but whatever you decide, buy it on ebay. i got the hk3370 for $199 brand new on ebay even though it is suppossed to retail for $500+. everyone is getting in to 5.1 right now, so pretty much all 2 channel equipment is selling for a fraction of the original price, hopefully you got your rp3s at a fraction of the original price as well. i got mine on ebay for $575 brand new. if you're having trouble deciding on a specific amp or source, check out the consumer reviews on www.audioreview.com (this site helped me pick the rp3s). as for speaker cable, be sure to buy cable that is shielded, balanced, and has 24k gold rca connectors to prevent corrosion. you should also consider bi-wiring your speakers. klipsch recommends it for improving clarity and imaging. i bought monster cable m1.4s biwire speaker cable (also on ebay) which is specifically designed for biwiring and it worked great. ------------------ two channel old schooler

klipsch claims that only diamond is stronger than the "cerametallic" material they build the midrange drivers out of on their new models. however, it does not seem to be strong enough to survive being shipped via ups. a klipsch rp3 was shipped to me, and it arrived looking like ups had thrown it off the back of the truck. aside from overall cabinet damage, the midrange driver was severly "wrinkled" almost to the point of being cracked, and the pins holding the side-loaded subwoofer in place had been ripped out and the sub had fallen into the speaker. is there anywhere i can pick up a replacement midrange driver? i can probably re-pin the sub in place myself thanks for any help ------------------ two channel old schooler

quote: Originally posted by zandern: That's because hardly anyone owns 2 channel audio any more. I think they use it to chat because no one has a question in 2 channel audio because it is boring. oh what? humans have 2 ears (currently) music has 2 channels (currently) until musicians release new material that was studio mixed into 5 channels on dvd discs or the next hifi audio media (probably 5 years away at least) 2 channel audio will remain the only format for home audio (not theatre) accepted by purists. if you've ever tried listening to pink floyd or radiohead on 5.1, you will be disapointed at the unnatural way in which the sound is distributed between channels. eventually as new music is studio mixed in 5.1, 2 channel will most likely go the way of the 8 track, but again, that is at least 5 years off. until then 2 channel will not strike the vast majority of home audio enthusiasts as boring. ------------------ two channel old schooler

just a quick question: what does the "line level" dial on the back of my rp3s do? should i have it set at +, -, or normal? by the way, i've got them biwired using only the hi/lo posts with the gold bridges removed. thanks ------------------ two channel old schooler

wow 40 footers? how big is your house? the hk has a mono sub out with rca inputs. i think it's for stand alone subs though, ie not subs built into towers like the rp3s. i don't think i need to wire the rp3 subs with the sub out, i think the main speaker outs will be just fine. that's how i have them now, and when i put on hunter by bjork at 1/4 volume it rattled the picture frames in my hallway about 30 feet from my room. any additional sub boost will lead to police intervention. according to fedex i should get the other rp3 in the mail later today, and i should get the biwire by monday. any advice on how long this stuff will need to "burn in", or the best ways to burn them in, or if burning in actually does anything at all? thanks again

the length of each cable (there are two, or one pair) is 10 feet. retail is $150.