Rolox
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On 6/3/2022 at 6:24 AM, estelegalize said:
Sup peoples!
I guess it’s customary to mention that this is my first post, but I’m a long time lurker. Just recently acquired a pair of ‘79 LaScala. Our first Klipsch pair. Been drooling over Klipsch and Altec for a while and the opportunity finally came.
I’ve been really enjoying these speakers so far, and I plan to continue enjoying them as is for a while. Big BUT, I want to plan and scheme potential tweaks and mods to help them get comfy with their new home and friends. I kinda understand the few camps around upgrading vs restoring vs not fixing if it ain’t broke. I guess I’m in the tweaker camp with one foot in the restoration camp.
These things are og, and sound great, but compared to my previous speakers, they can be a bit bloated with certain music, vocals can be a tad bit veiled, squawks in the face at times, and low end needs help from heaven above. My ears may just need to get used to to them.
For context, we listen to a lot of vinyl and digital music through a Schiit DAC, tube preamp and monoblocks. Running balanced mostly. My turntable doesn’t have the black background it used to, thought I had it made. Generally we listen to music with real low end often enough to realize it’s missing. I have 2 subs running in mono, still having issues with placement and blending them with LaScalas. I now realize how low my previous speakers went compared to LaScalas (I had an idea of that getting into it). I fell in love with LaScala first with my eyes, and then more so after listening to a local pair very frequently. Tripped out on how lovely/lively they sounded, how detailed they are. That pair is an early 80s I believe, and sounded really well in it’s large and open environment (not a home, more like a warehouse).
First thing I tried was detaching a diode on the AA hoping it’d help the perceived veiled vocals. A/b-ing them made me think it made a slight difference. I believe I‘m becoming a bit more accustomed to them since a lot of my initial concerns are easing. I a/b’ed my older pair with the monoblocks, and damn, it made me forgive a lot of my initial beefs with our LaScala.
I decided to ask for advice after much hesitation. I’ve been diggin through this forum exhaustively, as well as others, to get tips around these speakers. Mind boggled. Not tryna start any more beefs between camps, plenty of that in our politics, just tryna get some advice. All that to say, I’m interested in seeing how I can adjust, improve, and accustom myself to them.
A couple things I’m considering: new caps, checking the squawker rubber gaskets, also wondering if using a couple pieces of pure wool insulation in the dog house may help the bloatedness. Also considering a tone control as a bandaid, seems cheaper.Any advice which way to go? I’m open minded. I feel like I’m on the shore with my boat (LaScala) and staring out to open waters. If being vague, it’s because I’m curious to hear peoples ideas in hopes that it sparks an interest within me. I’m hoping some of the info I shared helps with ideas. Here’s a pic for more context. Thanks in advance, hope all on here are well.
Salud,
E
- replace horn/driver gaskets with new ones
- update mid driver to A55G
- recap crossovers -modern film caps sometimes sound too bright - depending on taste you may wanna try old MBGO or K75-10 Russian caps (great stuff on horns!)
- replace tweeters with SMAHLs
- rewire with solid core 16AWG Neotech UP-OCC wire (I know I'm gonna be mocked for saying this, but for me it made quite a difference)
-if you don't listen at deafening levels, you may replace woofers with Eminence Kappa 15C. Bass won't go any deeper, but will be more articulate, and the transition to the midrange will be smoother. Xmax on those is very limited, so theoretically they won't handle as much power down low - in the real world, in a domestic setting you should be fine.
- damping the back chamber (the "dog house") can be done - slightly. A single sheet of foam on one of the horizontal panel - top or bottom - but not more. If you over damp , you'll lose a great deal of the output. Believe me, I've tried.
Hope this helps
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It's an old thread but I thought I would chime in:
I'm using the K231 since two years in my main system and it's the best analogue crossover I ever owned. Flawless operation, fantastic sound, completely devoid of any noise or distortion.
The unit sounds bright when brand new, it needs a good two weeks of operation before you get to hear what it's capable of. Then it's absolutely marvelous. There isn't a single active crossover from the pro world that can come close. I've owned a bunch and even used to mod them for better sound.
One of the reviews on their website is mine (François).
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That's very sad to hear. Growing old(er) is a *****...
My thoughts to Gil and I wish him as much recovery as possible. And let's hope he will have the possibility, in that nursing home, to listen to some music.
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On 3/14/2022 at 8:05 AM, soundbound said:
No one bashed anyone on this thread for decisions to use certain wires, cables, or connectors. We doubted the declared amount of sonic improvements from the new wires and connectors changes.
I change my wires and connectors to better ones too, but don’t find or believe the high sonic improvements come from that that some declare do, because there’s only so much that can do, unless you replaced old bad wires, connectors, or their connections are bad in anyway, loose, or corroded causing problems.
If you come on a discussion forum making claims, there may be some who doubt them and that’s okay and the one making the claims needs to be okay with that too, or can post more proof of their claims.
Mr. Paul W. Klipsch had a big yellow button for others claims he doubted and I’d guess willing to discuss them and his own claims.
I rewired my speakers (between the passive 6KHz crossover and the mids and tweeter drivers) with Neotech UP-OCC solid core, monocrystal copper. If you have to laugh, laugh, but that wire is a big upgrade. I realize there's a tendency on this forum to mock people who buy audiophile cable, and that is a pity (not talking about you here, just in general). Of course Klipsch speakers will work with lamp cord. They will work with just about any wire you will throw at them. But the context in which those heritage speakers are used may vary greatly. A system with 1970s LaScala and a vintage receiver isn't the same context as a pair of LaScala AL5 used with, say, a high end SET amplifier or a class A Nelson Pass design. They have one thing in common, they are both super cool and sound superb to their respective owners. But that's about where the comparison stops. in the first system, it may seem to make little sense to upgrade the cables. In the second one, it would make little sense NOT to use something, at least, made for audio - and if the user wants to spend a fortune on it, so be it. And then there's everyone in-between those two situations.
I'm a sucker for audio cable. I've tried many, at various prices. I'm poor, so it never costs as much as a small bike. The cable I use throughout my system now is made in China, is multiple separated solid core wires, silver plated, teflon insulated. They make interconnects out of it, speaker cable, power cables. I have an actively bi-amped system and there's a massive amount of wires, all by the same maker. I'v tried many brands (or brandless) before and this is the very best I've owned so far. All in all I must have around 500USD invested in the current cable loom. It may sound like a lot, but it's actually a very small amount for such fantastic wire. But yeah if it was made by Nordost in the USA they would charge you a fortune for it.
I'm not gonna go into a fight with anyone here, but for me cables are just another element of the system. They definitely add a color; they can be "zingy", they can be bright, they can be dull. They can be transparent or they can be thick and dark. The wire I use now is very transparent, a tiny tiny bit bright, and lets the qualities of the recordings and of the electronics shine through.
What I'm trying to saying is, you can't try a "fancy" cable just once, not hear a difference, and then decide cables are a rip-off. And, worse, you can't make fun of something you haven't experienced yourself. Context is everything. Live and let live. It's a free world, and never anyone was FORCED to spend money on "fancy" cable. But if you wanna do it, do it.
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Ahahahaha
you people really need to get out more. and use your ears. it's not that hard.
Break-in: it's a fact. Put a brand new midrange driver diaphragm only on one channel, keeping the other driver old, and your stereo image will be skewed to a side for a few days, because the brand new diaphragm will be harsher. Then it will come back to normal. Same goes for the capacitors in your crossovers.
Cables and power cables: you really can't tell until you haven't tried. No need to spend fortunes.
Separates: oh come on now. While they don't ALWAYS offer better sound, they very often do, because there is less compromises being made specially at the lower end of the market. Using separates is usually a good idea.
I could go on forever.
You know, things have changed since the apparition of the "BS" button. Even at Klipsch...
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On 5/11/2022 at 9:03 PM, MMurg said:
I never understood the desire to run multiple speakers playing the same channel signals. Yes, you can achieve higher SPL, but you are introducing other issues. Correct stereo imaging depends on the amplitude, phase/timing, and directional information coming from each channel arriving at your ear without losing that information or adding anything to it. This will allow your ear/brain system to properly process it and turn it into a stereo image in your head. In turn, this allows you to locate sounds between the speakers that are a reasonable reproduction of what was captured by the microphone or created at the mixing console. Ideally, this means there should only be one early arrival of the sound of each channel at each ear. This is one reason why people treat their rooms to eliminate the early reflections. However, when you add more speakers reproducing the same channel you are now intentionally adding multiple arrivals at each ear. This causes confusion for the ear/brain system and can muddy or destroy the imaging. Another downside to having multiple speakers per channel, as @Marvel and @babadono mentioned, is that there will be interference between them depending on the distance between them and the frequencies being reproduced (a.k.a. comb filtering). Peaks and dips will be present at different locations. If you want higher SPL, just get a more capable pair of speakers.
This, exactly. You were able to explain it better than I ever could!
Stacking speakers makes no sense. Using more than one pair of speakers for stereo makes no sense and is detrimental.
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On 5/11/2022 at 7:06 PM, KT88 said:
I watched the video on youtube because of the comments. It is uplifting to read only the second comment written by Marianne Oelund. That's how cool this woman wrote.
Horns do not amplify but transform. Paul McGowan amplifies BS, untruths and old prejudices about horns.
I find his attitude very annoying. He mimics the serene friendly Hifi grandpa who knows everything and has seen everything and can judge everything. At the same time it is a really bad arrogant posturing with this mild smile.But there is one thing I find reassuring. Many comments on this video speak for the horn systems.
It is also reassuring how many people comment negatively on this AC generator BS when you watch the video on youtube. It is the video that Amir from ASR is referring to, where the link is above in a post here.
Amir? As far as I'm concerned, HE is bullshit. Okay so his measurements are good. The conclusions he draws from them are just plain wrong. Like, all DACs that measure close sound the same? hahaha that's the most idiotic "rule" he's been trying to spread amongst his disciples.So far from the truth it makes you wonder if all those guys ever actually listen to music and to their system, or if they just look at oscilloscopes all day.
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So the guy has an inaccurate view on Klipsch products... so what? maybe it shows Klipsch as a brand doesn't do enough efforts to be seen and acknowledged by the audiophile world nowadays? There is an awful lot of people in the audio world who probably have the exact same opinion of the Klipsch brand. Who is to blame, then? When you google "Klipsch", what are the marchand pages that show the most? I'd bet it's the ones selling the cheap entry level China-made products. In fact in Europe if you search for Klipsch in the local ads, 99% of the times you only find those products, even second hand.
I have absolutely nothing wrong to say about Paul McGowan, as a matter of fact I frequently watch his videos. I find the McGowan bashing vastly underserved. As for the late Paul W. Klipsch, as much as I respect the man, he did have a somewhat outdated views on certain matters (time alignement, for example). Things evolve, speaker design and audio electronics design as well. We now care about things that would have been considered useless and "bullshit" three decades ago.
I do love Klipsch Heritage speakers, but I'm above all an audiophile. I do not have "loyalty" to any brand in particular. And I think it's quite amusing that, besides all the brand loyalty and devotion to the late founder, Klipsch is probably the most modded / upgraded speaker brand in the universe! Having our own "technical modifications" segment here on the Klipsch forum says a lot. And it's perfectly fine, but it shows one thing: nothing is perfect, no brand is flawless, and Klipsch certainly isn't.
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13 hours ago, mjr4078 said:
Greetings folks! Looking for some advice/suggestions. I have about 5K to put into a new pair of speakers. The RF 7 III and the Forte IV have caught my attention and was wondering if anybody has had experience listening to these speakers. Sonically, what differences can I expect? I primarily listen to classic rock, hard rock, and metal. I will be driving them with a Rotel amp. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
While I have not compared those two, it's easy to tell the forte will be much easier to drive (those two cerametallic woofers are famous to need some power, and quoted sensitivity numbers are a bit optimistic on the RF range of products) so if you're planning on using some lower power amps at some point the Forte are the better choice.
Also, the "issue" with the RF7 is the two way design, putting the crossover frequency right where the ear is most sensitive, and forcing the woofers to reproduce a large part of the midrange - which can be seen as a compromise. On the other hand, a pair of RF7 with the right amp probably gives even more scale and SPL than a pair of Forte - the latter would have the edge on tonality and midrange informations. Best would be to listen to both and decide what you like most.
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11 hours ago, Idontknow said:
This is only because of the recent burst of youtube reviews coinciding at the same time the CWIV's were introduced. Why would Klipsch send any of these channels CWIII's or II's for that matter when they are trying to market the IV's? It's simply because there is no money in anything old to generate YouTube subscribers. The YouTuber's know people are only interested in new gear so that's all they review. People forget that Klipsch is a business now with a big marketing agenda.
The new Khorn's with their closed backs have not gotten good reviews compared to the previous models. Klipsch has tried to claim they don't have to be in the corners. Many of the people who claim the newer models are better are not doing real side by side comparisons. Instead they just go online claiming everything newer is better. I work in the telescope industry. I've probably reviewed more telescopes than anyone in the world. I've been doing it for 30 years. The same nonsense happens in the telescope industry so I can easily tell when people are just being marketed.
I don't mind newer things, but when people make claims without doing some real side by sides, it gets a bit difficult to swallow and I'm amazed at how easily people believe everything they're told.
Those are absurd claims, sorry.
It's easy to see, for anyone who knows a thing or two about speaker design (especially with the Cornwall IV) WHY the version IV is better. You see it immediately even before listening to it. Then you listen to it, and you hear exactly what is to be expected from the upgrades.
I'm sorry but that tiny *** midrange horn of the previous version is just a bad compromise. It's never been designed for the Cornwall, they used the Heresy horn for years (and even in the Heresy, that horn wasn't so good to start with). It's too small and when it comes to horns, size matters A LOT. It's also an outdated exponential design.
With the new midrange horn, and new driver, Klipsch finally offers the Cornwall a quality design in the most important part of the frequency range. Add to that a better crossover from our friend Roy Delgado and his team, and yes, it's a much better design altogether, and it sounds better as a result, as it should.
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Well, the IV is a better speaker, to me there is absolutely no question. BUT it is completely fine that one may prefer the more "vintage Klipsch" sound of the III... on the long run however, I'd rather go with a more modern, neutral, detailed sound.
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Well i did cover the rear side of my plastic mid horns with two layers of sticky bitumen sheets and i can definitely hear an improvement. There is Also a YouTube video of a guy who did the same on his Cornwalls IV. Worth doing IMO but you will void the warranty.
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Try diffusers! I recently acquired some and they do WONDERS for my room. The ones I have are made of polystyrene, are light and cheap but very effective. Efficiently cleans up the sound and give a sense of space and "beauty" to the acoustics, it's hard to explain.
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2 hours ago, Schu said:
Does anyone happen to remember the time alignment in milliseconds for the Klipschorn and the squawker?
between tweeter and midrange, or between midrange and bass?
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My past experience with the K401 midrange horn, when I had vintage LaScalas, is that it is extremely beamy - at least when used up to 6KHz like on most vintage issues. I could never get the right balance in my room. I was either missing details in the high mid, or having my ears bleeding. You need to find the exact amount of toe-in to get acceptable presentation. With that in mind, I would consider a vintage pair of Khorns to be a hit or miss speaker: if the proportions of the room are not perfect (the listening angle, etc) with the Khorns in the required corners, you'd be probably get much better sound with a pair of LaScala and their placement flexibility... and some good sub(s). My two cents anyways!
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On 4/5/2022 at 3:54 AM, ka7niq said:
I sold my Klipschorns, but I still have very large horn speakers in the corners "Klipschorn Style". Of course, the speakers fire across the room. I know with a conventional pair of speakers NOT in the room corners, we try to hang the acoustic panels at the first reflection points. But, with speakers firing from the corners, where shall I hang the panels ?
for a wide, spacious sound, I would experiment with diffuser panels on the opposite wall, where the sound coming straight from the horns hits the wall. That would be the first reflection point when using horns in a corner set-up. I've recently purchased diffusers from t.akustik and I must say I find the effect exhilarating.
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On 4/2/2022 at 5:23 PM, adam2434 said:
So, I’ve been working on a pair of newly-acquired KLF-20 (reinforced all interior cabinet joints with heavy construction adhesive, added front-to-back braces, replaced electrolytic cap in woofer circuit) and got the speakers put back together yesterday.
Fired them up yesterday and one tweeter is completely dead. I removed the dead tweeter and tested it by itself with a 7000 Hz test tone and there is zero output. I don’t know how a tweeter could die from simply removing it and reinstalling it in the cabinet. I’m a bit dumfounded on this.
How could this happen?
So, I guess the diaphragm went bad somehow and I’ll replace the diaphragms in both tweeters so they match.
Simply Speakers has fabric and titanium replacement diaphragms for the K-79-K tweeter (links below).
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Replacement-Titanium-Speaker-Diaphragm/dp/B00DX7DXHE
I think Crites also has a titanium diaphragm that works in the K-79-K tweeter.
Any advantages to any of these diaphragm options?
Also, I am curious in general about how a replacement diaphragm could change the frequency response or sensitivity of the tweeter vs. the original diaphragm. I mean the replacement diaphragms are different materials and the domes are probably different weights vs. the original.
Wouldn’t this impact how the tweeter functions in terms of frequency response and sensitivity?
Happened to me once with a Beyma CP25. Took all drivers out to repaint the box, put the drivers back in, one of the tweeters was dead. Had to order some replacement diaphragm. Still a mystery to me!
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On 3/26/2022 at 4:06 PM, Idontknow said:
That was not directed at you btw and if it came across that way, I apologize. But, I will say that the major issue with these klipsch forums is they fail miserably to help others get constructive feedback which is why I’ve seldom posted questions for assistance because you can hardly get anything constructive. For example whenever you try to ask what the difference is between this speaker vs that speaker you just get blanket statements like the IV without any constructive content as to why or any context. That’s fanboy chatter as far as I’m concerned. If you google who the best drummer is you always get these stupid comments that John Bonham is. I guarantee if you asked these fanboys why he’s a better drummer, they would have no idea specifically why or what he does differently that other drummers couldn’t do. They would fail miserably.
If I ask what’s a better speaker, the Cornwall or the Heresy, everyone will say the Cornwall without any regard to the listening room size or position of the listener. In theory one might think the Cornwall is better but it’s unfortunate that so many are so quick to answer without asking questions about the listeners situation first in order to provide a constructive answer. I’ve struggled for literally years to find a pair of mint Forte 1’s without success. Every single pair was either banged up with cup rings on top or had pushed-in drivers. What is it with these cup rings anyway? Was every klipsch owner a party animal? Let’s make sure we add some cup stain rings so we fit in guys.
Finally last week I said screw it and ordered a pair of Forte 1’s from Klipsch Restorations for $2750 shipped. Not the II, not the III, not the IV. What?...!!!!! You can get a a pair of Forte’s for $500 online! Yea right! Good luck. Did anyone ever consider that for my listening room a forte 1 fully restored to practically brand new is still less than a Heresy IV? Why a Forte 1? Because despite that huge 15” passive radiator that everyone goes goo-goo gaga over, all the later versions ironically don’t go as low as the Forte one, especially at lower listening levels. The 1 is better than all this overly marketed, over priced new stuff.
I couldn’t get any constructive help from these forums, why? Because it’s just this same crap all day long. IV IV IV IV. In a few years it’ll be V V V V V. This here is an example of a constructive and helpful, honest review.
https://audiomods.datsunzgarage.us/forte/
My 2 cents.
The CWIV is a better speaker, even in a smallish room. I had a full afternoon demo with Cornwall IV as a BEDROOM SYSTEM and I can still say they are the best value speakers available today. PERIOD. they really are fantastic and don't need a room the size of an airport to work well, contrary to common beliefs.
As for the Forte 1... well, there's more to a speaker sound than just "how low the bass goes". Midrange natural and clarity, depth of image, transparency, micro details, all those areas where the Forte IV will TROUNCE any Forte 1, no matter how upgraded / restored it is. Call it overpriced marketing hype if you like, but you're wrong, the last generation Heritage is much better than ALL previous iterations, it's a fact, not a preference.
Rant over.
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On 4/26/2021 at 8:57 AM, SpeedLimit said:
Ok, ok , then sorry
(Je vis en Belgique et parle français)
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On 4/26/2021 at 8:57 AM, SpeedLimit said:
Ok, ok , then sorry
Hi, and congrats on your build! I also use Peavey FH1 with Kappa 15C
I have a pair of John Allen / Bob Crites A55G midrange drivers, in mint condition, for sale - drop me a PM if you might be interested.
Cheers!
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Guys, DO NOT overstuff the dog house with foam, polyfill, pillows!!!! IT WILL KILL YOUR SOUND.
Believe me, I've been there: I covered the entire doghouse panels with eggs crate foam and it was like the woofer was stuck.
A raw doghouse is part of the design and how the horn works.
If you insist on doing it, you can place just ONE piece of foam covering the triangular horizontal panel, above the woofer, it will kill some little resonance, but THAT'S IT.
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Once the biggest is gone, you might want to try those white "super sponge" basotect squares ("magic sponges"), I use those when I have to remove black rubber marks from the wooden floor
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12 hours ago, jjptkd said:
Welp I took a trip to my Montana house this weekend / week and was excited to try out my PA5 in my living room system but looks like I'm dead in the water. Current system includes my modified / refurbished KP-301-II's powered by a refurbished Sunfire Ultimate Receiver source is my Samsung TV running Youtube and music downloaded to a hard drive. System as is sounds great I'm always impressed with how good it sounds every time I come here but sitting on an extra Sunfire TGP-III figured I'd give the little PA5 a run.
Got everything swapped out and no sound from the left channel-- double checked all connections and still a no-go. Swapped inputs on the amp, speaker cables, inputs on the pre-amp, even swapped pre-amps since I have my brother's TGP-III sitting here and nothing. Thought it might be the XLR to TRS input cables swapped them out and nope, problem has been isolated to the left channels on the amplifier, both inputs. This thing was working when I disconnected it at my house in WA right before I left not sure what happened?
This is probably my last trip out here until Fall so a bit frustrating I didn't get to do a comparison but oh well I guess, hopefully the amp is still under warranty I'll have to check that out I just bought this new not that long ago.
Could be something as simple as a disconnected wire INSIDE the amp, between the board and the speaker terminal!
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13 minutes ago, Flevoman said:
😄😄.. Yes, I'm the one.
I saw they where also advertised on a Belgium website.
It was a fierce fight with other interested parties who wanted to buy, but I won the fight 😇
I paid a lot for these speakers, but that pain is quickly forgotten
Oh well, Heritage Klipsch are rare in our countries so no matter how much you paid, it was a smart move in my opinion 😉 congrats on you purchase!
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Anyone using La Scala's with 2.5 -5 watt amps
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
You could try with a low power class D amp, like the first T-amp, a Trends TA10, or something... if it doesn't work with one of those, you won't have enough volume with the SET.