ka7niq

You are fixing to be one happy Camper, when you get it all set up!

------Well, this IS an old thread, and all the CF series speakers are long gone, cause I get bored with stuff pretty easy, and I am a Ham Radio Operator. I needed money for my Ham Radio Hobby, and sold a lot of my stuff. The CF 4 Series 1 speakers are ones I wish I had kept. Right now, I have a pair of these little bastards, and they are stupid good, especially if you are anal about speech reproduction. Watching TV with these is a whole new experience, only my old B&W Matrix 801's could equal, but not beat these on reproduced voice. These image all over the place, and are very very musical. No, they will not bust the walls down, but they are what I have right now, and I am very happy with them. Remember, I am a Ham, and more into that hobby right now. I found an open box brand new pair of these on Ebay for 199.00. They also make larger versions with 6 1/2 and 8 inch woofers. I will never suggest a speaker I have not lived with, but these 5 1/2 inch Fostex PM 05MkII's are just incredible. I have not heard the larger ones. They have their own built in amps, and use electronic crossovers, with very good drivers made just for these speakers. All you do is run interconnects from your preamp to them, and enjoy. BTW, Fostex made the woofers in the CF Series for Klipsch!

No more then 150.00 used. I got mine used on Craigslist for 100.00, and it was so clean you could eat off of it. It is not a John Curl design, like some other Parasound amps. It was designed by the founder of Parasound himself, years ago. It has a warm, musical character overall, with great bass, for such a small amp. It was "The winner" overall, of all my many amplifiers, for driving the CF 3 and CF 4's, when I ran them full range. I have had it nearly 6 years.

Yes, the preamp you have sends a signal to 2 amplifiers, one for the horns, one for the woofers. The level controls on the amplifier allows you to control the level of the horns. Once you have your speakers set up this way, you will love it! Then, you will be able to adjust the level of the horns. This means that shitty bright recordings will suddenly sound good, or at least tolerable. The amp you use to power the Horns will act as a sort of "Tone Control" or Room Equalizer. Many recordings are made intentionally Bright, so they will sound good in a car. Many recording engineers feel their job is to make their recordings sound good in a car, so you will buy them. They could care less that some of us guys have systems at home the recordings will sound crappy on! Roy Delgado designed the CF Series speakers to be as flat and revealing as possible. When you play these shit recordings on speakers as good as the CF 3 and CF 4, they get revealed to be the shit recordings they are. I think, no better yet, I KNOW, it is "cruel and unusual punishment" to own CF 3 or CF 4's, and have no ability to compensate for these shit recordings. Most recordings made in the last 20 years have their entire range from 1000 hz up boosted, to overcome speaker placement in a car! Thus, conventional tone controls have limited ability to compensate. Of course, you could always use an Equalizer. The CF 3 and CF 4 speakers are ideally suited to compensate for these bad recordings, because they cross over between 1000hz and 2000hz! With the ability to control the horns level, you will be able for the first time to "un do" what the recording engineer did, and all w/o the phase shift, and other nasty things that tone controls and equalizers do to a recording! LOL, I listen to a lot of Classic Rock. I was playing Tom Petty and REO Speedwagon for a friend on bi amped CF 4 version 1's, and got accused of having a "special Telarc Recording" by him! He said "No Way can that music sound so good". He about crapped his pants when he saw it was just a regular CD.

Sure, your amp will work, although it would be best to have just an amplifier, instead of an integrated amplifier. The integrated amp has a pre amp in it, and in this instance, it is not needed. Go and get a pair of Y connectors at Radio Shack. Hook the single end of the Y Connector to your preamp, and then hook one of the 2 outputs of the Y to your Chip amp, and one end to your main amp. Remove the metal jumpers from the back of your speakers, then hook the outputs of the chip amp to the tweeters (horns), and the main amp will drive the woofers. Then, sit back, listen and enjoy! The volume control on your chip amp will allow you to adjust the level of the Horns!

The BEST way I have found to use the CF Series speakers is in a passive bi amp setup, using a tweeter amplifier with level controls, so u can adjust the level of the horn, relative to the midrange woofers. Te small Parasound HCA 500 is a great little amp to use on the horns. It has level controls, and is w/o glare. No, it is not tubes, but I actually prefer it to many tube amplifiers, on the CF series horn/driver combination. The little Parasound HCA 500 is a real sleeper of an amplifier for many horn speakers. Plus, they can be found for under 150.00 all day long! My Tech (also a horn owning audiophile) increases the Bias of the small Parasound a little, so it is nearly pure class a when driving just the tweeters. It is Oh So Sweet! I have also played with Capacitor changes (type NOT Value) and like Blue Clarity Caps, but only IF the speakers are not run with a tweeter amp with level controls. The Blue Clarity Caps act to smooth and mellow out the horn. But, if you are running a separate tweeter horn amp with level controls ( THE Best Way), then go to the Red Clarity Cap on the tweeter circuit. The Red Clarity Caps add "Air" on top, and helps the speakers image even better. It is so EASY to run your CF series speakers with 2 amplifiers, one for the horns, and one for the woofers. All you need to do is come out of your preamp with a one into 2 Y Connector. The "problem" with the CF series speakers is this. The Horn is run just a little bit on the Hot side. With the speakers placed up against the back wall, in an acoustically dead room, this is ok. But, when you place the speakers out from the back wall so they image properly, the Horn is a little too aggressive for much of the music we like. Only the very best recordings sound really good, and much music is almost unlistenable. Being able to control the horns level makes a HUGE difference. The "problem" with the CF series speakers is a LEVEL problem, and all the rope caulk in the world, and better caps are not gonna fix a level problem! To get the most out of the CF 3 and CF 4 speakers, the (KA7NIQ Mod) is what you need to do.

Here is a review of some Cerwin Vega VS 150's I recently wrote http://www2.audioasylum.com/reviews/Speakers/Cerwin-Vega/VS--150/speakers/31/314456.html I was not aware Radio Shack contracted Cerwin Vega to build speakers for them. I know some Radio Shack speakers used that Linaeum Tweeter made out of Mylar Film.

Some Cerwin Vega speakers are incredibly good, and will drop your jaw if you give them a chance. The Cerwin Vega VS 150 has a very musical midrange, and an almost soft high end. The harder to find Cerwin Vega RE 38 uses the same midrange and woofer of the VS 150, but with a greatly upgraded tweeter. These Cerwin Vega Speakers are very efficient, and tuned very low in the bass. They will flat out rock, and sound great doing it. They have a warm, musical tonal balance that will surprise the heck out of many who think all Cerwin Vega Speakers suck.

OMG, I can hardly believe this thread has gone on this long since I started it. I met Mark Levinson when he came to see a dealer in Seattle. I sat next to Mark Levinson at dinner,, and asked him what speakers he thought were the best, and he shocked the chit out of me by relpying Klipschorns were, as long as the tweeters were turned vertical, and they were equalized with his then experimental EQ that became the Chello Pallette Equalizer/ I have owned 3 sets of Klipschorns, in 3 different rooms , all with no luck, yet I have heard Klipschorns sound great in basements, and some rooms. I met PWK in Detroit back in 69, I was just a Kid then, I think he was obsessed with efficiency, and Pro Tone Controls. He told me to adjust my grandpa's Klipschorns using the tone controls till it sounded good to me. Think aboout it Guys, Klipschorns are stuck in a corner, they aint Magnepans you can simply move for best tonal balance., Of course PWK would alllow EQ, or tone correction! What IS the difference between EQ, and tone correction ? It all alters sound, right ?

You can buy a copy of the advent frequency balance box review here, or, just have a look at some of the wonderful stuff we used to use.

Phase and frequency response are linked. In a minimum phase event, the reason there is a frequency response variation is because there is a difference in phase that causes it. In that case the phase differences may be inaudible but their effects, frequency response differences, are. But that's not all... In this case, phase differences between drivers within a loudspeaker cause comb filtering and increased side lobing. The lobing occurs in the region of frequency overlap between the two drivers. The comb filters extend upward through the frequency range. EQ cannot correct this but synchronizing the acoustic arrival times between the drivers with a delay will. And, similarly, time aligning any loudspeaker with such problems (most of them) will mitigate those problems. So, in summary, although phase may not be directly audible, the effects of phase certainly are and are worth correcting. All one has to do is sit in front of a pair of Tannoy Dual Concentric's to get a demonstration of the audibility of phase and time alignment.

I have owned a lot of Klipsch speakers, some needed tone corrections, some did not. Mark Levinsoon liked equalized Klipschorns, but he has this Audio Pallette Equalizer, and knows how to use it. My room will not support Klipschorns, so unless i move, I will never be able to try it.

If you give me 4 grand Mike, I will order a pair right away. Seriously, I would love to have a pair

OMG, please don't tell me it has a Titanium Midrange too [|-)] Now I will want to screw that driver on MY Cornwall 2's

Well, the obvious question is WHAT is the better Tweeter ? Surely Klipsch is aware of the Titanium Tweeter made for Bob by Eminence, they read this board. I wonder why they simply did not go to Eminence for their new titanium tweeter, unless they felt theirs is better ? As a Cornwall owner yourself, you MUST wonder about the new Cornwall 3 tweeter for your Cornwalls, don't you ?

I have Cornwall II's, and replaced the stock tweeters with Titanium ones from Bob Crites. Now, I see the Cornwall III has Titanium tweeters. I wonder IF they are the same, and if they are not, if they will work with a Cornwall 2 crossover ?

Well, however Grandpa did it is good by me.

I agree Gary. I was shown by actually hearing a full blown Western Electric Horn System that our grandfathers knew better sound then we do. The Western Engineers did it all by ear too, and cut and try. I am a Ham Gary (Ka7niq) and computer modeling has taken over the design of directional antennas we call Yagi's, or beam antennas. One ham did some computer modeling of older Ham Radio Antennas designed on an antenna range years ago w/o any computer modeling. Suprisingly, the computer could not improve the design. I guess Grandpa knew his shit!

Bump, I wanted to update my experiences with the Madisound Surplus Poly Caps. I pulled the tweeters out of My EV Sentry III's today, and cleaned the terminals. Remember, these speakers are 35 years old ! I also reached my hand into the tweeter hole, and wiggled wires as best I could on the Tweeter attenuator pot. This had a DRASTIC effect on the sound, even though the tweeters seemed to be "working" I have been listening for almost 4 hours straight, tryiing hard to find some recording to make the speaker show it's flaws. The speakers simply sound incredible now. The woofer roll off calls for 2 30uf caps in parallel, the Madisound Surplus Polys are 10uf, so I took 3 of them to make each of the needed 30uf. The midrange high pass also calls for one 30uf Cap, so there are now 3 of the 10uf Madisound caps there as well. The other 2 caps are a 17.5 on the midrange roll off, and a 2uf on the tweeter. I have Solens in there now, and it sounds so good I am reluctant to mess with it any further. The Madisound 10uf Surplus Caps cost 60 cents each, and are American made by a Capacitor manufacturer in California who makes a lot for the US Military. 3 of them in parallel make for extremely LOW ESR, and the Caps can not be more then 8 years old, according to the company that made them. I was told they were US Military excess they made at one time. The date of manufacture was unknown, but the company is only 8 years old, so go figure ? I have no way to measure ESR, but capacitance was right on the money, within .1 uf of value on every one I measured. This was tighter then the Solens! The 18 uf Solens measured 18.1 and 17.8 on 18uf rated caps. I played everything tonight I own practically, from the B 52's to Polka, Jazz, Metal, Techno, Tom Petty and Pat Benetar. I just Love the EV Sentry III's. They have taken on a big, smooth, musical and powerful sound. Far from the "in yer face" sound of most horns i have owned. Instead of sounding like a horn speaker, they simply sound like a great speaker, if you know what I mean ? Perhaps the wide 120 degree dispersion of the SM 120 horn reduces their throw, I don't know. All I know is coming from B&W Matrix 801's, they are not a disappointment like many horns have been for me. I have heard a CD Horn does not sound as good as a non CD horn, but you can not prove it by me. I hear ZERO offensive Horn Coloration in the mids of the Sentry III's. I do hear a horn sound in the ST 350 tweeters, but it is a low distortion, precision type of sound more then a coloration, kind of a "go ahead, mess with me, I can handle anything you have and sound good doing it too" type of sound. In some ways, the EV Sentry III's sound much like my departed EV Interface D's, since they share the same tweeters. I like the Sentry III's better even then the Interface D's Like the Interface D's, they have that wide uniform Polar dispersion EV was Anal about years ago. I lack the optional dedicated EV Equalizer that is said to turn the Sentry III's into room rattling bass machines, extending response down to 30 hz. But since I have very large subwoofers, it can wait. I would suggest you try the Madisound Surplus Poly Caps, if you can make a 10uf cap work for you, either alone, or in a parallel combination. They are cheap enough I want to order more, and peel them apart, to see if I can trim them down to replace the Solens of 18uf uf. All it will take is one Madisound 10uf cap, and a trimmed one in parallel, if I can pull it off ? I MAY even order some 2uf ones from the same company that made them originally, since they are still in business, just for the hell of it ? I am very impressed with the sound of my speakers with these caps in them.

Thanks. I'll be interested. Gary, off topic, but I thought I would add this. The Onkyo HT RC 180 HT receiver works splendid on My EV Sentry III's and the Klipsch Conrwall 2's. It is dead quiet, and really sounds great on the EV Sentry's and my Tannoy's. For SOME reason, it is bright and spitty on my JBL S 412P's ? Go figure ? It has Onkyo's Low Feedback WRAT Amplifier, for what that is worth. It makes a pretty good one box solution, not quite as good as my Best seperates of course, but suprisingly listenable. And when all it's other features are considered, it makes a strong case for itself. 2 ch Stereo died here a long time ago, except in a small dedicated room I hardly use anymore. The Cornwall 2's live in there, they play background music for my pair of Parakeets! I did listen to the Onkyo on my Matrix 801's, before I sold them. The Onkyo drove the piss out of them, sounded pretty good too. HDMI and age are making boat anchors out of a lot of great old stuff, it is really sad. But some of the new stuff is actually quite good, if one listens with an open mind. Why put up with that Hum from the NAD ? Heck, some of these new receovers even have 5 and 7 band equalizers, operating in the digital domain. Unfortunately, mine does not, but it's bigger brothers do! I see you have a 3 channel system, is that only for music, or for movies too ? I had a 3 ch system years ago using a belle and a pair of KHorns with an old McIntosh 3ch preamp and tube monoblocks for the 3 channels. I also had an ADS Digital Time Delay, with Heresy's on my side walls. It was a lot of fun!

The tweeters in my EV Sentry III's look like this, as far as the Horn goes, but the single magnet is round, and the terminals appear to be non existant, with black and red wires looking like they come right off the diapraghm terminals, but I have yet to pull off the horn to see.

That is probably why EV crossed it over at 3500 in the Sentry III's then ? There seems to be 2 1823's ? One for PA use, and one for music use, with wider bandwidth ?

I can get them for about 30 each for the mids, haven't checked on the ST 350A diapraghms, I am sure having fun with the EVSentry 3's Maron, but I miss my Tannoys too Maron, if that makes sense ? Fortunately, I still have the Tannoys, I like them both.

My EV Sentry III's were made back in like 1976. They use the EV 1823M midrange driver, and the EV ST 350A Horn Tweeters. I wonder if it is time to slap some new diapraghms in them, since they are 34 years old ? They work flawless, but I just wonder if i am missing out on the way these drivers really sound ? Any way to tell, for sure ?

or are they like a transistor, in that they work perfectly, or not at all. If you have compression driver speakers that are 35 years old, but still working, are there any benefits to be had by replacing working diapraghms >