hjones4841

Just think - that fancy power cord plugged into a wall receptacle (don't forget to install the $50 audiophile receptacles!) wired with 5 cent a foot romex cable, connected to a 5 dollar breaker in the house power box, connected to outdoor power distribution cables, connected thru - I assure you - non-audiophile pole and substation transformers, connected to 230KV or 500KV transmission lines (nice, noise-free environment there!), connected to another set of surely non-audiophile substation transformers to power generating plants with all kinds of electrical noise running around in them (I know, I design them). Now, exactly what is that fancy-smanzy, highway-robbery priced power cable supposed to do for your audio system? Sorry for the rant - the engineer in me had to cut loose

I took a look at my 1978 K'horn woofers a couple of years ago and the surrounds (and everything else) looked perfect.

Maybe his wife told him to "sell all that junk." So, he put it on ebay with exhorbitant prices. Later tells wife "sorry, hon, didn't sell. Guess I gotta keep them..."

AC3 is the old, original name for Dolby Digital 5.1. Dunno why the site is listing it, since the term AC3 has been out of general use for several years.

JC: I have known the Shepards of Ideal Acoustics for well over 35 years. I graduated from MS State in 1971. I was back over there about 4 years ago and Dr. Shepard has retired, but still has the store. After retirement, they sold everything and went on the road in a motor home for several months. Then they bought another home in Starkville and put down roots again. Anyway, nice to know another patron of Ideal Acoustics.

Excellent! Well done! Love the movie sound bites!

The Heresy IIs finally came in and I set them up yesterday. They are mounted on the side walls of the room, just about in-line with the recliners and about 30" above the "seated-ear" position. I let the 5805 re-run the auto setup and auto EQ, using the maximum 8 microphone positions - 3 at ear level on the recliners, 3 at about 12" above ear level just behind the recliners, and the last 2 at 12" above ear level just to the sides of the main (my) recliner. Then I popped in the National Treasure DVD, set the 5805 to PL2x processing on top of Dolby Digital... WOW! WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The entire "back field" came alive. As I had posted previously, the recliner backs are tall enough to block direct sound from the rear K'horns (I did not pay enough attention when buying the recliners). The side mounted Heresys make up for that and then some. So, I am very pleased. One thing I did note is the drop in finish quality from my first pair of Heresys that I purchased in 1972. Those were real oiled walnut veneer, while the new ones almost look like vinyl. Sure wish that I had kept those old ones, but I sold them when I bought the 1978 pair of K'horns. Nobody had surround sound back then, so I thought I would not have a use for them. I actually tried to buy them back from the purchaser several years ago and he would not part with them! Wonder why!!! Anyway, one extremely happy camper here. I have yet to find any flaws with the 5805 and it plus the upgrade to 7.1 have made a giant improvement in my system's sound.

Yeah, Audyssey is secretive about what frequencies are analyzed and EQ'd. For instance, the manual EQ on the 5805 shows only 7 or so bands, but the write-ups on Audyssey indicate many more than that are used. The sweep tone actually does not go that low or that high, so your point about the midrange horn may be on-target. Speaking of the sweep-tone: hearing protection is recommended, especially with the efficiency of the K'horns.

John - all crossovers are whatever the factory was shipping at the time.

Thanks for the reply, Gil. I am the original owner of all and no repairs have been made or alterations to any of the fronts. I did rebuild the older pair in the rear due to significant differences in "voicing" compared to the 1998 pair. The rebuild kit got them to sound much closer matched to the fronts. I like your suggestion about the different path lengths for the drivers. I knew that, but had forgotten. That is the most likely cause. Someday I may disconnect the tweeters on both and re-run Audyssey. The system sounds too "right" for anything to really be wrong. I did roll polarity of the fronts and they sounded out of phase with the Belle - further proof that Audyssey was being fooled. There is a SKIP option when this error pops up on screen, so that the rest of the room EQ setup can continue.

For the past week I have been playing with the Audyssey set-up and room correction on my new Denon 5805 receiver. My speakers are 1998 K'horns and 1998 Belle in front, 1978 K'horns in back upgraded with factory upgrade kits in 2001. Although I know for sure that the speaker wiring is correct, Audyssey reports front mains as being out of phase. Over on AVSForum, Chris from Audyssey Labs said that they have seen this happen when tweeters are wired out of phase. What was the factory connection for the tweeters on my vintage speakers. Could they be reversed in comparison with the mid squawker and woofer? Thanks.

Thanks for the comments, fellas. As for what Audyssey does, I remember Chris from Audyssey labs commenting on its ability to compensate for first reflections. That is not much of a problem in my room - I have 3" of RPG absorptive panels on the walls at each first reflection point. So, I suppose that accurate distance compensation and frequency response shaping is the most of what is being done. I did see the post about the pro Heresy version, but the IIs were already on order. Kinda wanted a wood finish also. On the universal DVD player with Denon Link, I think I will wait until HD DVD players get sorted out. I would hate to spend $$ on a standard DVD player, then have the HD players come out at about the same price point. SACD is an "also ran" for me anyway, since 95% of the system use is for video. I will post some pictures of the room after the Heresy's come in. I am scheduled for back surgery in a few days and I hope they come in before then. Should have plenty of time for watching and listening post-op, tho. I have seen the debate on AVS Forum about rated vs. measured power output and whether or not the 5805 will pump out 170 x 10 all channels driven. That was not even a concern for me with the high efficiency speakers. Funny to see how the 5805 auto-set the channel levels. The Velodyne sub is -1db; the K'horns are -12db. That must be compensation for the efficiency differences. I tried the video scaling this afternoon. 480i to 1080i looked better than the projector's internal scaler, but it converted 4:3 from the standard def. TIVOs to letterbox. I can put the projector on vertical stretch and compensate, but not sure the difference is worth the extra button presses.

My first impressions of my Denon 5805 in my Heritige system (4 K'horns and Belle with Velodyne FSR 18 sub) are very favorable. I have a pair of Heresy IIs on order for the sides, but the system is 5.1 for now. After hauling this beast out of the car and up onto the reinforced top shelf of my equipment rack (a 2-man job for sure!), I resisted the urge to fire it up until all of the dozens of cables were connected. One complaint - the speaker binding posts are not spaced for dual bananas - bummer, since all my connectors are duals. I had to insert the bare #10 speaker wires under the binding posts; bummer... First task after power up was running the auto speaker/Audyssey calibration. First mistake - I put the mic against the backs of the recliners (hey, that's where the ears are, right?). Result was much too bright sound with some very hefty EQ boost in upper mid and treble. Chris from Audyssey Labs posts frequently on AVS Forum and he said that is the absolutely worst place for the mic - early reflections from the seats get factored into the correction curve. OK, I pushed the recliner backs out of the way and re-ran the calibration. Results - VERY NICE INDEED! Absolutely the best surround imaging I have ever heard from my system. A tad bright, but right-sounding. Very good integration of the sub. Dialog on the Belle is less "chesty" sounding and more intelligable. As we know, residual noise in the electronics can be a real annoyance with our high efficiency speakers. Old Denon AVP8000 pre/pro was OK, although there was some hiss audible from the rear channels at the listening position. Good news - the 5805 is dead quiet. I have to put my ears up to the grille cloth at the tweeters to hear only the slightest hiss. SACD playback sounds wonderful. I am using the 5.1 analog outs from a Sony DVD changer for SACD. No doubt that a high-end Denon DVD player with Denon Link would sound even better, but no money left for one of those! Not much to say about the video switching - it does its job without degradation. I haven't compared the 5805's internal scaler vs. the one in my projector (NEC HT-1000) yet, although I did see some strange looking text from a DVD when I upscaled 480i to 1080i with the 5805. I suspect that was caused by two Faroudja chips (the projector has one also) in series. Gotta play around with that later. All in all, I am well pleased. I had initially decided to stay with separates when I upgraded, but the Audyssey room correction, the multitude of component and HDMI video inputs, and the numerous digital audio inputs lured me to the 5805.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I mounted sturdy shelves on both sides of the room at "just high enough for me to walk under" height. I plan to tilt them down to at least aim for MY recliner. A window and the equipment rack prevented me from aligning them exactly the same distance from the front of the room, but I figure if I put one with the woofer towards the front of the room and one with the woofer towards the back of the room the mid and tweet horns will be very close to in-line. Gonna run the wiring thru the ceiling this weekend and will be ready to fire them up when they come in.

One more question - horizontal or vertical mounting? Seems that horizontal mounting with a tilt would put the horns better aimed at the three recliners...

I put the Heresy IIs on order today - dealer said 2 weeks on either the black or wood finish. I was tempted to go with the black to make them less visible (wall is nearly black wallpaper) but decided to go with walnut, since the K'horns and Belle are walnut. Now all I have to do is figure out how I want to wall-mount them. Not happy with the brands of wall mounts I am seeing without having to pay $80 each or so. I may home-brew some metal or wood brackets instead. I will need to mount them near the ceiling for walking-under-them room and tilt them down. Bad news is that the Denon 5805 is on backorder with about a month wait. And the S-video switching on my AVP-8000 pre/pro (S-Video is used for the standard def TIVOs) is crapping out - works about 1/3 of the time. Looks like it is the right time to replace it. Can't complain, it has thousands of hours on it!

I agree with lot of speakers for the room. Like I said in my first post, the front K'horns and Belle are across the 12.5 foot wall. The Velo sub is between the left K'horn and the Belle. The bottom of my 100" diag. screen is literally at the top of the Belle (I had to recess the top of the screen frame into the suspended ceiling.) In between the rear K'horns is a fireplace. Throw in 3 recliners and 2 equipment racks and you can see that the room is about full. I did measure for the Heresys a few minutes ago and I can make them fit above and to the sides of the recliners, so I think I will call the local dealer tomorrow. Anybody know if the Heresys are long lead time (3-4 weeks) like the K'horns? By the way, I have been a Klipsch fan for about 35 years. Actually got to drive PWK around my college campus back in Spring 1971 - he put a program on for the student IEEE meeting. Picture this - a physics auditorium with stage. After introduction, PWK ran down the aisle and with one leap was up on the stage. The guy truly was a hoot, in addition to a genius!

Thanks, guys. I looked in depth at separates and other receivers. I currently am using a 1998 vintage Denon AVP-8000 with matching POA 8200 and POA 8300 amps. The processor upgrade has been on my mind for about 3 years now, so I have looked at virtually all brands and had about sold myself on an Anthem AVM-30. One goal, however, was simplification of the system. That, plus the rave reviews I have seen about Denon's Audssey room correction led me to put the Denon 5805 on order. The local dealer that I ordered the 5805 is also my Klipsch dealer - got the 1998 K'horns and Belle from him. I agree that Timbre matching is important. I noticed significant improvement in imaging when I put the old K'horns in back in place of some KG2s and again when I upgraded the old K'horns to current mid drivers and crossovers. So, that makes the case for the Heresy's, although a couple of Academy's would be nice if they were still available.

I am considering upgrading my 5.1 HT system to 7.1. The room is fairly small (12.5' wide by 22.5' long). I am upgrading my existing surround processor (which is 5.1 only) to a Denon 5805 receiver, so now the 7.1 setup is possible. The fronts are 1998 vintage K'horns with a 1998 Belle for center; backs are 1978 vintage K'horns upgraded with the factory kit in 2001. Sub is Velodyne FSR-18. The room layout has fronts/backs along the 12.5 foot wall. HT seating is near the center of the room, 11 feet back from the 12.5 foot front wall. Of course, with K'horns the backs are locked to the corners, so a 7.1 arrangement with sides and close-together backs are not possible. There is no room on the sides for Belles or LaScalas. I could wall mount Heresy IIs or RC-7s. Has anyone set up a similar arrangement with the Heritage line? Will most surround processors have enough +/- level range to make up the approx. 7 db difference in efficiency between the Khorns and the Heresy IIs or RC-7s? Will there be a significant improvement in the rear soundstage from adding the sides, even tho placement will not be optimum? Thanks for your opinions.