jmslaw

Very interesting to hear about others' experiences with the newer Khorns. Fritz: I considered the 60th Anniv. version, but I was concerned about the closed back. The venerable design of the original is what sold me on them in the first place. I can understand those without good corners might really appreciate the closed backs, but I have devoted corners and was concerned that they might not "couple" to the room as well. Do you feel they energize the room as well as the original design? Do you still put your's in the corners? I also think Klipsch missed the boat on styling. While I think the lacewood is beautiful, I think the top section should have also been lacewood to match the entire speaker. The two-tone approach doesn't appeal to me. Better yet, Klipsch should have offered the 60th in a rich heirloom finish like mahogany or brazilian rosewood. Taking a regular pair of Khorns, upgrading the wiring and crossover components and clothing them in a premium finish would have been the perfect Anniversary version. Oh well, at least they look better than the 50th Anniv. versions. Joe: NO, this is my main system. I still have the CJ Premier 8xs amps, but, frankly, the Mac 275s sound even better. Yes, I still have the TNT mk.3 and would sell to a local buyer only. I'm using the Grado reference now, as I prefer the higher output. Regards. Jeff

Well, I've just completed an entire day of listening to my new 2007 Walnut AK-5 Khorns and I am mightily impressed. Having owned the 2002 AK4s before these, I am very familiar with the modern Khorns, their strengths and limitations. I have owned MANY, MANY very high-end speakers over the years, most recently the Soundlab Majestics, Soundlab A-1s, Snell XA Reference, Thiel CS6, Magnepan Tympani 1d just to name a few. I have always come back to the Khorns, feeling they are the most dynamic speakers I have ever heard, and in the right set-up with the right equipment, they come very close to the good planars in the areas of detail and tonality. My AK-4s always seemed a little "boomy" in the bass compared to the best planars and lack the "air" on top, though the highs were definitley sweet and, despite the 15khz upper limit never seemed lacking in top-end extension. The differences I discern between the AK4s and AK5s are subtle and may be a product of my new amps. I have moved to an all Mcintosh system ( MC275 mk.5 monoblocks, C2200 preamp, MVP861 SACD, VPI TNT mk.5, all connected with PAD Venustas cabling) and, therefore, I cannot make an absolute comparison, having never listened to these new amps with the AK4s. Still, I have listened to the AK4s with the above-listed equipment and the Mac 2102 in place of the new 275s. The AK5s are dealer demos, so I assume they are adequately broken-in. If I try to describe the differences in any particular frequency range, I'm not sure I could accurately discern much difference, save the bass, where I definitely feel that the "boominess" is less pronounced, though still noticeable. Again, I make these comparisons having recently owned $35,000 Soundlab speakers which had the tautest bass I have ever heard. With that frame of reference, the Khorns' bottom-end just doesn't hold as tightly, though I'm not exactly sure instruments in real life sound as tight, either. Give me a good recording of the 1812 Overture and I'll take the Khorns anyday over the big planars, which can't begin to approach the explosiveness of the mighty Khorns. I haven't gotten enough of a handle on the rest of the differences yet to make any meaningful comparisons, but I'm really enjoying my system. The fact that these $7500 speakers can compete with, and in some areas surpass speaker systems costing MUCH, MUCH more is very impressive. Certainly for large-scale symphonic works, the only speakers I have heard which can reproduce such scale as the Khorns are the large Genesis speakers. I will report on my further impressions after I have had enough time to really appreciate these fine speakers. I would like to hear from any other owners of the newest version of the Khorns to hear their impressions, and, particularly, would be interested in hearing from any 60th Anniversary model owners. Jeff

Rob: Don't worry. I have my Khorns on corners which are 20' apart and my listening position is about 16 feet away. I have tried the position in the 45* sweetspot and find I prefer to be further back, behind the "intersection" For purposes of bass reinforcement, you will be better off closer to the rear wall, anyway. It sounds like your room is a nice size to let the Khorns breathe.

Thanks, Dean et al, that's what I needed to know.

I know Gizmo Rosenberg used a Marchand with his big Tannoys. What about a 2-way ARC EC-22? I do not want to do anything to my AK-4 crossover. I simply want to connect the woofer terminals to the low pass and the mi/tweeter terminals to the high pass and adjust everything from the ARC (or other unit) Thanks, Jeff

I own a pair of 2002 Klipschorns. I have been driving them with Wavelength Cardinal x-1s and feel the lower end lacks the oomphh that a good push-pull amp provides. I, therefore, want to use a different more powerful tube amp on the bottom. My question is which crossover should I consider. I don't want to sacrifice transparency. Do I need a 2 way or a 3 way? Where should I set the crossover points? Thanks!

I would buy a pair of Jubilee in a heartbeat. I'll pay a deposit now. If Klipsch were smart they would unveil the "PWK Memorial:, a statement speaker. It could even be a Klipschorn with premium parts, say Monster Sigma Retro gold wiring, expensive caps, etc. They could produce a premium finish like Bubinga wood and I GUARANTEE they would sell as quickly as they could produce them.

The Klipschorns are sold. FYI, I replaced them with Impact Airfoil 5.2 4 piece system, driven by Levinson No.33 monos. The impacts at nearly 5 times the retail cost of the Khorns is MARGINALLY better. I will certainly miss the Khorns and feel they are the finest speakers anywhere near their price.

Well, it took a pair of 35k speakers for me to consider selling my beloved 2002 Klipschorns. Check my ad on Audiogon. First buyer with $3600 to pick them up in Baltimore gets them. They are essentially as new, save for one binding post which doesn't tighten all the way, but has no effect on usage. Please don't try to haggle. These are like new and there is a waiting list for new ones at 6-7k. Regards, Jeff

I have owned CJ Premier 8A's (6550's); the 8xs triode version (EL34's); Wavelength Cardinals (W.E. 300bs); Vaic VV52s, and McIntosh 2102 (KT88s). I am currently alternating between the Mac amp and the Cardinals. The Mac amp is 100wpc and is more than I need, but the sound is more dynamic than with the 300bs at 12wpc. Yes, I know that I NEVER exceed 10wpc output as evidenced by the Mac meters, but the bass has more ooomphh and I really don't notice any loss of transparency or midrange purity. It is for this reason that I prefer the KT88 outfitted Mac amp on my 2002 (AK-4) Khorns. Oh, and the amp sounds best off the 8 ohm tap, not the 4.

I own a pair of 2002 Khorns which employ 2 sets of binding posts: one for lows and one for highs. I had been using bi-wire cables, but just acquired a pair of single-run cables. The Khorns come with a pair of Monster jumper cables, but they are spade like my speaker cables and the 2 sets of spades do not fit into the binding posts. I did acquire a set of Cardas jumpers w/ banana connectors. Should I use my speaker cables on the high posts or low posts? (connecting the Cardas jumpers to the unused post)Does it make a real difference which posts I use? Thanks!

James: I think you hit the nail on the head:It isn't just the incredible sound of these speakers; it is also the nostalgia, pride of ownership, knowledge that these speakers last forever, etc. Being a Klipschorn owner trancends mere sonic parameters. One joins a venerable fraternity.

Tony: My point exactly. I have owned several speaker systems which cost WAY more than my Khorns. I sold all of those in favor of the Khorns. It isn't a matter of being able to spend more; rather it is about not NEEDING to spend more. My system has never provided so much enjoyment.

William: Yes, arguably there are "better" speakers than the Klipschorn. I, personally, have owned speakers which retailed for $90,000. and have heard MANY of the so-called statement systems out there. The bottom-line is that for 10 times the money, one only gets a slight increase in performance over the Khorns, typically at the extremes. For $7500 retail, they are an unbelievable speaker, and I prefer them to virtually every megabuck speaker I have heard. It isn't a matter of "blinders", it's a matter of preference.

DM: Good analysis of Khorns' strengths. Yeah, they really do disappear. A very effective treatment I am using is corner bass traps in the 2 non-Klipsched corners. They really help better-define the lowest frequencies. I don't think I am having problem getting low bass, certainly not now, anyway. I was, however, not getting very tight and well-defined bass prior to installing the Wavelength cardinals. Even the big CJ8s left the bottom a little flabby. I think the Cardinals are operating in their comfort-zone as opposed to the bigger amps which were merely in idle. I used the Stereophile Test disc 2 to determine that I have usable output to 31.5hz and can detect some bass at 25hz. That's plenty low for me, and now it is controlled. As for soundstage, I feel the Khorns are competitive with the best imagers around. Unlike most planars, the image doesn't fall apart when one moves 6" from the epicenter. Colin: You have to review the latest version of the Khorns. The world deserves to know this 50+ year old design is alive and well!

Well, my audio nervosa has caused me to move speakers (among other components) in and out of my system like most women change shoes. When I obtained my 2002 Klipschorns over a year ago, I immediately enjoyed them, but felt that something was missing with regard to ultimate transparency as compared to the Magnepans, Logans, Thiels, etc. to which I was familiar. Despite this nagging feeling, I still held on to my Khorns, feeling I would regret selling them. There is a certain organic quality to their sound which is just so damn enjoyable. I have experimented with MANY high-end amps, tube and solid state, including Wavelength, VAIC, CJ, McIntosh, and even the big Krell FPB600 (talk about overkill!!) I even commented on this forum that they sound best with a good push-pull tube amp like the CJ Premier 8. Most recently, I have had the Thiel CS6 and Audiostatic Wing S speakers in my system, both amazing performers. The Thiels really shone in the bottom frequencies and I was prepared to keep them for a long time. I then played with the Audiostatics, which are, perhaps, the most transparent speaker I have ever heard. They do not, however, possess the dynamic bottom-end which I so covet. I was prepared, however, to keep those just for the pure midband and silky highs. I was prepared to crate the Khorns for their ultimate departure from my home. Just for giggles, I decided to hook them up to my Krell FPB600 and CJ Premier 16lsmk.II driving the Northstar 192 combo. As expected, the stats trounced the Khorns, notably in the bottom-end which was boomy and lacking in detail. I still have my Wavelength Cardinals with the WE300b tubes. I acquired a pair of Phillips 5ar4 tubes which I had not yet used. I replaced the Krell amp and VOILA....... THE KHORNS SOUNDED LIKE DIFFERENT SPEAKERS!!!!! Apparently, during my initial pairing with the Khorns, the Cardinals had a bad tube which affected their performance. All of the sudden, the bass firmed up and gained a level of harmonic rightness I have not heard before on these speakers. EVERYTHING just jelled! I have spent the past week going through all my reference discs and have come to the following conclusion: The Klipschorns are world-class speakers under the right circumstances. The Wavelength Cardinals transformed my Khorns into a crystal-clear window into the music. My father, also an avid audiophile commented how my system has never sounded better. Yes, the Audiostatics are more transparent and the Thiels have better bottom-end extension. Taken on the whole, however, the Khorns sound more like the real thing. Music is alive. Timbre is natural. They energize the room in a way that mortal speakers just cannot do. If I think about selling my Khorns again, please stop me. This is, of course, assuming that my wife does not have me committed. I really believe that I am off the speaker merry-go-round indefinately.

"Affiliated"? Well, I have known him and dealt with him for years. He is a neighbor of my in-laws and I have listened to his system(s) In fact, when I tried to order my Khorns from Audio Classics in NY state, I was told that they had one pair in stock which was spoken for, but they would let me know if the buyer took possession. I found out months later, that it was Mark, the seller of this pair. He is a stand-up guy, and has some very impressive equipment, including the Tannoy Westminsters. If his speakers were oak oil,like mine, I would buy them and incorporate them into a multi-channel SACD set-up.

Indy: I agree with you 100% that new Khorns do and should take a hit with regard to resale value. What we disagree on is the extent of said hit. $1800-2800 is a very broad range, and I would argue that $2800 is, perhaps, within reason ONLY because they are damaged. If they were pristine, they would be worth at least $3500, given their $6000 new cost and 6 month waiting list. If you were on the waiting list for a $6000 pair and had the chance to get a virtually new pair for $3500, wouldn't you jump at it? Most people would. Regardless, market demand will ultimately settle the debate. In the meantime, we can both listen to our Klipschorns and not dwell on residual value.

With all due respect, the selling price of those much older Khorns on ebay is hardly probative of what a virtually new pair is worth. But for the appearance the 2002 Khorn is an entirely different speaker. There is a long backlog on orders, so the demand speaks for itself. Granted, the market price is never wrong, and whether he gets his asking price will depend on the extent of the cosmetic damage. My point is that using comparable selling prices for older versions is not a good indicator, in this particular instance.

I know the seller. He is an honest guy. He lives near me and bought his Khorns the same week I purchased mine. BTW, the list IS $7500 and, yes, they can be had for about 6k new. His asking price is reasonable, given the cosmetic damage. Anyone who thinks they are getting the newest version of the Khorns for $1800 or $2000 is dreaming.

My wife now LOVES the Khorns. Compared to the Soundlabs, Martin Logans, Impact Airfoils and 8' tall Cabasse Atlantis speakers which have graced my room, the Khorns are unobtrusive. Show her a pair of Acoustat 8s which you wish to buy. Explain to her that they must sit out 5-6' into the room. She'll consider the Khorns a nice compromise.

My new (2002 model) Khorns have bi-wire binding posts, and come with Monster Cable jumpers for single-wire use. Will I be better off bi-wiring them or using an equivalent single-wire with the jumpers? I am planning on using Cardas Neutral reference. Thanks, Jeff

Well, after weeks and weeks of comparing and contrasting some of the finest tube amps known to man, I have concluded that high-powered SET or even push-pull triode is the way to go. I own the 2002 revised Khorns used with the following equipment: Conrad johnson Premier 16ls preamp; Jadis JS1/JD1 digital rig; Goldmund 39 player; Shanling SACD player; and the following amps: CJ Premier 8A ; CJ Premier 8xs (borrowed from friend); Wavelength Cardinal x-1 (WE 300b); Wellborne Laurel; VAIC Valve 52b All the above amps are monoblocks. The Wavelengths and Wellborne amps are 7-8 wpc each. The Cardinals produce a palpable midrange that is smooth as silk. The highs are nice and extended. The bass, while very tight does not have the impact or "slam" that I have experienced with the higher-powered CJ amps. The Wellbornes are similar in character as the Cardinals, but not as detailed nor as extended. Both the Wellbornes and Wavelengths produced very little noise on the highly sensitive Khorns. The CJ8As really energize the room, perhaps too much so. The bass output pressurizes my 18x21 room such that one can feel the thwack of a drum through one's internal organs. The 8xs (triode version) is about 140 wpc (into 4 ohms) as compared to the 275 wpc of the 8A. The 8xs got all of the midrange purity of the Cardinals but added the missing slam factor that I crave on good rock SACDs and large-scale orchestral works. I must add, though, that both CJ amps produce audible tube hiss at idling, that while not too distracting is subtly noticeable. I had decided that the CJ 8xs amps were the ultimate match for the Khorns until I received my latest toys- THE VAIC 52Bs!! These SET amps use the 52b tube ( said to be a tweeked out 300b variant) and produce about 32 wpc. All of the bass extension and impact of the big CJs is there plus midrange purity and finesse with transients like I have never experienced. What this evaluation has shown me is that the low-powered SETs, while producing a very sweet and detailed sound, fail to really excite the bottom-end of these speakers. On the other hand, a fantastic amp like the CJ 8As which retail for 17k are just too noisy for the Khorns and may be overkill in the lower octaves. I truly believe that more than 7-8 wpc is necessary for full-scale effect, and a quality high-powered SET is the way to go. Now I have to start unloading my amp collection before my wife divorces me!

DT: I also have the new Klipschorns, and I must say that in my 19x 20 room I have no complaints about bass extension. yes, I have had more extended speakers, but I would say, without measuring, that my bass response extends well into the 30's without siginificant rolloff. Perhaps the polarity issue is the problem or maybe your associated equipment or room is the limiting factor. I am not a bass freak, but I do value a strong and tight bass line, and that is what I get with my Khorns.

DT: I agree with you. I have already posted how much I enjoy my new Khorns. (manufactured Aug 2002) They will only get better as they break in. Enjoy!!