johns02 Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 One word, wow! My speakers have reincarnated and come to life with ALK crossovers. The high freq. are so much more detailed and the midrange is laid back. It also seem that imaging has greatly improved. The speakers sound like their response is flatter than before and not so pronounced in the mid section. I used the 3,0 tap on tx for my K55M. I can't believe what these crossovers have done. These speakers now match the detail of my electrostats but exceeds them in dynamics. Goodby old Acoustats and hello khorns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 26, 2001 Share Posted February 26, 2001 Johns, Thanks for the good words! How about taking some pictures of it? I would like to see how some other people build my design. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns02 Posted February 27, 2001 Author Share Posted February 27, 2001 Al, Heres the picture of your xover I built. Direct connection, Kimber cable Have not got around to connecting the woofer choke. I am using the one in lower cabinet right now. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 John, GOOD JOB!! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 John, Did you mean the inductor is not connected in the woofer circuit? That's required for proper operation. Do connect it ASAP! fox, Nope, I haven't doen a thing with the Reference series speakers. I don't have any to play with! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns02 Posted March 5, 2001 Author Share Posted March 5, 2001 Al, I am using the 12db in bottom cabinet for the woofer. I have not decided which direction to take. Mount choke in bottom since I have the terminal cups in bass unit or run a seperate wire from xover and abandon the inputs at bass bin. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 5, 2001 Share Posted March 5, 2001 John, NO! Don't combine parts of my network with parts of the original!!! The 2.4 Mhy is already on your board so connect it directly to the woofer and disconnect all the other comonents of the original network. If you have both L and C connected to the bass the network is NOT working correctly! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns02 Posted March 5, 2001 Author Share Posted March 5, 2001 Al, Are you saying the bass l & c effects overall impedance of your network and changes the xover points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 John, YES! Absolutely. The 2.4 mHy inductor and 39uF cap counteract each others reactive component to provide a resistive impedance to the amp. If you have an inductor and a capacitor in one channel (the woofer channel) the reactive slopes are not equal and don't cancell propery. The drivers themselves complicted matters enough as it is, at least the network can be right! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns02 Posted March 6, 2001 Author Share Posted March 6, 2001 Al, I was actually using the 4.5mh and 35uf that was in lower cabinet completly bypassing the 2.4mh choke. The taps with that setup using K55M are 7.9db attenuation. It actually sounds great but when I hooked up the 2.4mh bypassing internal bass network my taps are now 11.3 attenuation which is slightly hotter than before. I think I will try 8.8 ohms by adding a 75 ohm 3watt for 12.1db. What do you think? Have you talked Klipsch into testing xovers in the a. chamber John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 John, I suggest that you try setting 1-0 keeping the resistor at 10 Ohms first before you add the 8.8 Ohm combination. The missmatch at that setting is really very small and it will confirm what you really want. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns02 Posted March 9, 2001 Author Share Posted March 9, 2001 Testing crossovers? I have a scope and a audio generator. What is your method for checking crossover points? Adjust audio gen until db loss and note setting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 11, 2001 Share Posted March 11, 2001 John, Testing the crossover points is difficult. Different methods give different results. I have chosen a method I use "in house" to compare two networks for left / right matching. The REAL crossover is determined by the speaker drivers as they work together. Even the autotransformer tap setting has an effect on it. If I were you, I wouldn't even bother to try it! It's not worth pulling your hair out over. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 I just read this post and I have to wonder---ALK network is installed wrong, components inadvertly bypassed which obviously effects impedence curve and design intent and listening tests with this set-up sounds great? We should all become familiar with Beranecks' "Law". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns02 Posted March 27, 2001 Author Share Posted March 27, 2001 John, I did not inadvertently bypass caps. Al's design is tested and built by him just like his schematic shows. see http://www.web-span.com/alk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 who said anything about caps? I know his design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Hi guys. Here is what you get when you connect a 117 uF cap (3-39 uF in parallel) directly across the woofer in a Belle Klipsch using one of my "ALK" networks. I had a very hard time shrinking the file size down to the limit. That's why it looks a bit crude. The black trace is withOUT the capacitor (correct network). The red trace is with the 117 uF connected using clip-leads. The frequency scale is 100 Hz to 10KHz and 2 dB / Division on the "Y" axis. As you can see, a dip is generated at about 700 Hz. This is what I was hearing on the "FM noise test". NOTE: This is NOT a correctly designed network when you do this. This is the point. If you fail to remove the cap from the woofer door on a Klipschorn something similar is happening. Just because a change sounds different, that doesn't mean it's better! This also is NOT to say that a correctly designed L - C woofer filter could not be of benefit. In this case though, I don't see what is to be gained by doing it. The frequency response is pretty flat already! Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oregon_guy Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Al, as you know, I'm planning on trying to build the network design you have posted on your website for the Cornwall I. I'm going to try and use it for the Heresy IIs I've got. Before I order parts I wanted to double check that each part in the parts list should be doubled (for building the pair of xovers), correct? here's the parts list from the zip file: ************************ North Creek Music (http://www.northcreekmusic.com) Phone and Fax: 315 369 2500 Quantity Item 2 1 uFd. +-10% Harmony by-pass capacitor ====================== Solen lectronique Inc. (http://www.solen.ca) 4470 Thibault Ave. St-Hubert, QC J3Y 7T9 Canada Phone: 450-656-2759 fax: 450-443-4949 Email: solen@solen.ca Quantity Item 1 1.3 mHy inductor wound of AWG #12 solid 1 1.3 mHy inductor wound of AWG #18 solid 1 .15 mHy inductor wound of AWG #16 Litz wire 1 .20 mHy inductor wound of AWG #14 Litz wire 1 4.3 uFd. +-5% Solen "Fast cap" 1 6.2 uFd. +-5% Solen "Fast cap" 2 39 uFd. +-5% Solen "Fast Cap" ======================= Madisound Speaker Components, Inc. 8608 University Green #10 Middleton, WI 53562 USA Tel: 608-831-3433 Fax: 608-831-3771 email: info@madisound.com Web: www.madisound.com Quantity Item 1 2.2 uFd. +-5% Hovland Music-cap -- OR -- Low cost option to Hovland Music-caps: 1 2.0 uFd. +-5% Solen "Fast caps" paralled with: 1 0.22 uFd. +-10% Harmony by-pass capacitor (from North Creek Music) ========================= Quantity Item 1 Plywood or particle board - 9.75 X 7.0 X 5/8 In. thick 1 8 terminal barrier strip Binding posts (large solder lugs) Nylon cable ties 1 5.6 Ohm 10W power resistor 1 5.6 Ohm 3W power resistor 1 Klipsch T2A Auto-transformer from type AA network. or: Universal Transformer #3619 P.O. Box 1300 Wylie, TX 75098 972 442 2231 voice 972 442 2233 fax ****************************** thanks Dan McAdam Salem Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Dan, Yes, that looks like my list for a single Cornwall I network. Remember though, this is for the Cornwall. You got to have a K77 tweeter. I am not sure the Heresy II has that tweeter! Also, the 5.6 OHm 10W changes to 4.7 Ohms 10W for the Heresy and the taps move down one. The Mouser part number for the terminals is 538-Y141. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oregon_guy Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Al, the current listed tweeter for the Heresey is the K-76-K, so I guess I need to reconfigure the parts list for that. Any input on that? by the way everyone: here is a price quote I got from Solen this morning on their parts in Al's parts list (referenced above): ***************** QUOTATION 27 Mar 2001 DO 44421 1 S121.3 1.3 mH 2.0 22x45x89 Canada 19.87 19.87 1 S181.3 1.3 mH 1.0 14x29x57 Canada 4.73 4.73 1 L16.15 .15 mH 1.2 11x22x45 Canada 3.24 3.24 1 L14.20 .20 mH 1.5 14x29x57 Canada 6.24 6.24 1 PB430 4.3 mfd 400v 19x33 France 1.70 1.70 1 PB620 6.2 mfd 400v 23x33 France 2.02 2.02 2 PB3900 39 mfd 400v 40x60 France 7.94 15.88 S.T. 53.68 NW: 1.57 KG FREIGHT 11.90 TOTAL US$ 65.58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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