Blue Ray (maybe finally) to non HDMI pre amp

[IndyKlipschFan]

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2008/09/26/bd_p2500xaa/bdp2500_spec.pdf

Got a little excited... can this BR player send the audo in the newer blue ray discs formats like true HD etc through optical...and send the 1080p or 720p for those of us with old projectors too.????? (Personally the projector I own is still pretty awesome at 1080i / 720p)

Rather than have to buy a HDMI pre amp. Can I let the BR player decide the audio format? And send it.. Looks like I can with this unit....

What would the signal be in the pre amp of my Sunfire Theater Grand IV?

What do I set it on?

It is 399 retail.. Obviously, the video would be either HDMI or in my case DVI to the projector for now...

Damon... Others????

[toddvj]

Yes, you can get TrueHD, but not through optical. You'd have to use the 7.1-Channel analog audio outputs. As far as video, you should be able to send any video format over HDMI (or an HDMI to DVI cable).

[sfogg]

"... can this BR player send the audo in the newer blue ray discs formats like true HD etc through optical..."

No,
there is no provision for sending bitstream TrueHD over S/PDIF. Even if
there were your pre-amp wouldn't have a clue how to handle it.

With
TrueHD decoded back PCM it is possible to carry 2 channels of the audio
over S/PDIF but you of course then end up loosing 4 or 6 of the
channels. The exception to that is Meridian pre-pros that can accept 6
channels of LPCM in over 3 S/PDIF connections, the Lexicon MC-1 which
can do the same and I think there is an older Denon that had the
ability to take in 8 channels over 4 S/PDIF connections.

You are limited to multi-channel analog from the player into your Sunfire if you want to hear TrueHD/etc.. in full resolution

Shawn

[IndyKlipschFan]

Ok Todd and Shawn..... and others.... Go here...

So using the 7.1-Channel analog audio out puts to the Sunfire... do I get the newer blue ray formats audio wise? I think I could...read below...

http://sunfire.com/pdf/Theater%20Grand%20IV%20Manual.pdf <<<< Shawn look at page 13, item 14, under 8 channel input. I copied it below...

14. 8-CH Input
These analog audio inputs can
connect to the output of an external
surround processor, or a
source component such as DVDAudio,
SACD, or a DVD player
with its own surround decoder.
You can select this as an input
from the front panel or remote
control. The eight channels of
analog audio will then pass into
the TGIV.

Note: This is designed to be a
very short analog-only signal path.
DSP-based effects such as tone
controls, bass management and
DSP surround are bypassed. This
input is not available in Zone 2.

So the Sunfire has a Analog 8 channel input through RCA's. This way I am using the Samsung Blue ray players DSP. And that way whatever format is on the blue ray disc too..... and by passing the DSP's of the Sunfire all together. But use the DSP modes on the Samsung player.... So as I read it... I CAN do it..... right???

For those people with older pre amps with 8 channel inputs then, this would work! Or does it?

[IndyKlipschFan]

From the Blue Ray site....

http://pages.samsung.com/us/bluraysupport/art_user_decoders.html

If your receiver isn’t capable of such decoding, your Blu-ray player
may be able decode these formats itself, “onboard” in other words, and
deliver the resulting audio via 5.1 channel
analog audio connections.

It is now 7.1 on the newer Samsung 2500 so

Dolby® Digital, Dolby Digital Plus,
Dolby® TrueHD, dts®, MP3 audio decoding it is possible...

I know before you had to use a HDMI cable to get it.. And I know I can set the Blue Ray machine to 720p/ 1080i/ 1080p too. My Infocus 7210 Projector has DVI in and is native at 720p. I experimented all going in at 720p and 1080i too.... 1080i looks pretty good to me on most (90%) movies on the Denon 2910 DVD player.... and HDTV is almost always is just a tad better... at 1080i, too, from the Comcast HDTV box.

Go figure from the general rule to always stick to native resolutions?

If this is true.... It looks the "lightbulb went off" for manufactuers and you can do it now? What am I missing?

For MSRP at 399.00 This saves me, and perhaps a LOT OF PEOPLE (If they have the audio inputs) from getting a different pre amp....

At least for now..LOL

[PhilMays]

This was the exact question I had before which I didn't get a clear answer on. It seems to me with the 5.1 analog, you'll get that result. The RGB connection would/should give you the same view.

Thanks for the post.

[sfogg]

" So as I read it... I CAN do it..... right???For those people with
older pre amps with 8 channel inputs then, this would work! "

Yes,
that is what the 6/8 channel analog outputs on various BluRay players
are for. Be sure whatever player you are looking at his internal
decoding for all of the formats and for its analog outputs has bass
management, time alignment and level controls. In the 8 channel input
mode you Sunfires bass management and time alignment are not active
since the signal isn't going through the DSP.

Check out
the Panasonic BD55, it is a very good player. It has internal decoding
for everything (the Samsung appears to be lacking DTS MA from the list
you posted) and has the speaker processing you need.

Shawn

[toddvj]

With TrueHD decoded back PCM it is possible to carry 2 channels of the audio over S/PDIF but you of course then end up loosing 4 or 6 of the channels. The exception to that is Meridian pre-pros that can accept 6 channels of LPCM in over 3 S/PDIF connections, the Lexicon MC-1 which can do the same and I think there is an older Denon that had the ability to take in 8 channels over 4 S/PDIF connections.

Shawn

Not that this has anything to do with the original question, but -- Where are you going to find a player that has 3 or 4 S/PDIF outputs? What would possibly be the reason for that? This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.

[sfogg]

"-- Where are you going to find a player that has 3 or 4 S/PDIF
outputs?"

Meridian players have 3 S/PDIF outputs on them. Other then that it is modified players.

"What would possibly be the reason for that?""

The reason already given which you quoted.

"This is the most
ridiculous thing I've ever heard of."

Somehow I doubt that.

Shawn

[toddvj]

Meridian makes Blu-Ray players?

[IndyKlipschFan]

I got this from Sunfire today...

Dear Roger..

The 8-CH input is really useful as
an input for HD-DVD or Blu-ray DVD
players capable of decoding Dolby
True HD.
If your DVD player has its own
Dolby decoder you can connect it as
shown. The surround back inputs can
be left disconnected if your player
does not have these outputs.
Note: The eight channels of audio
from the DVD are all processed by the
Sunfire Pre Amp, so bass management,
tone control, and surround mode
selections will still be functional. Additionally
there is an 8-channel source
direct mode. This provides the highest
fidelity signal path for SACD or
DVD-Audio, free from any coloration
or processor circuitry.

SO....... Now on a quest to find a great Blue Ray player that has 7.1 analog outs...

The Samsung looks great at 399.

For those with Analog in Pre Amps I think I am on to something here.... YES!!!!

The only draw back I see is on non Blue Ray discs is I need to selct the sound format or maybe it goes to standard anyhow. I am noticing more and more discs just saying "English" and I am using DD EX for 7.1 sound.

One of the reasons I bought the Sunfire Theater Grand IV, was it had all of the "formats of the day" and really matched well with the Klipsch La Scalas. The separate Sunfire Amp is 200 wpc x seven for the La Scalas, and Klipsch THX 525 surrounds. Add the Klipsch KA 1000 amp and 2 of the THX HT 120 Subs... it is just awesome... now I will send the Video HDMI out to DVI to the projector like I do now... so no new pre amp or projector upgrade needed at this time. Wooooo Hooooooooo Thank you AUDIO angels for a cheaper x mas hopefully!

Just a look at the Sunfire at the modes below.

DOLBY DIGITAL
DOLBY DIGITAL EX
DTS
DTS-ES MATRIX
DTS-ES DISCRETEDOLBY PRO LOGIC II and
DOLBY PRO LOGIC IIx
These modes allows you to enjoy
many of the benefi ts of Dolby
Digital (and Dolby Digital EX) from
your stereo sources.
DOLBY PRO LOGIC II features
enhanced realism from full range
stereo surround channels. Use
this mode to listen to your stereo
sources in 5.1 surround sound.
It has two options, Movie and
Music, which can be set using the
On Screen Display (OSD) menus.
Surround Modes for 2-Channel Sources
In MOVIE mode, Dolby Surround
soundtracks are decoded by the
TGIV into separate channels: left
and right channels for off-screen
imaging, a center channel for
most on-screen dialog, and stereo
surround channels for ambience
and special effects. This is the
mode to use for any surround-encoded
material.
Try MUSIC mode for all of your
stereo programs, and adjust these
extra options to suit your taste:
Center Width spreads the
center channel across the front
soundstage.
Panorama wraps the left and
right channels around you.
Dimension adjusts the front/
rear balance.
DOLBY PRO LOGIC IIx extends
the Dolby Pro Logic II technology
by adding stereo full range
surround back channels. Use this
instead of Dolby Pro Logic II if you
are using the surround back channels
in your system. This also
has Movie and Music options as
described above. << This is my favorite!!!!

[Eskimo1]

IIRC, the Panny BD55 and Sony S550 both have the 7.1 analog outs..

[Rudy81]

Indy: I have been using the new Panasonic BD55 Blu Ray player for two months now. That player has internal HD audio format decoding and sends it to my Paraouns pre/pro via analog. I get all formats, DD, dts and the new HD formats via analog. It works great and saves you from having to trash your high end pre/pro. There is a very long thread on AVSforums re: the Panasonic units. I would say everyone is thrilled with the overall peformance. I beleive that Oppo will also sbe releasing a similar product early next year, but a little more expensive, in the $500 range.