Thanks for helping me chosse a sub TOM, but can you now help me set it up correctly!

[Amit]

Hey guys i just bought a single PW-2200 sub, which was highly reccomended by Tom at SVS. I did post a question before of a single SVS 2039CS+ vs dual PW-2200. For now i am going to try one, if i feel the need for more bass then i will add another. Anyways no that i have bought the sub, i need a lot of help setting it up. Tom are you there!

This is my equipment:

Klipsch RF-3 Mains

Klipsch RC-3 Centre

Klipsch RS-3 Surrounds

Onkyo TX-DS575X Reciever

-(with analog sources it has fixed crossover at 80 hz, wether i set the speakers to large or small on my reciever)

-(With Digital sources it has a fixed frqeuncy at 80 hz when speakers are set to large, but when set to small i think there is no cross over active in the reciever and all LFE goes to sub)

Well here is my equipment, and i think i am right about the onkyo recievers bass management, i may be wrong, and if i am please correct me. Anyways with the information above could you please help me set up my new subs, crossover, phase, etc.

The sub will be corner loaded ( 13 inches from side wall, 8 inches from rear wall)

My room is 19 feet long, 14 feet wide, and 8 feet high.

If need it setup for both music and ht!

[TVodhanel]

Good choice on the 2200,good woof.

I think you have the small/large thing backwards...LARGE should run a full range signal to the speaker. SMALL will reroute all the bass to the sub.

IMO---you should have the full range speaker highpassed at 80hz regardless of the source input...so try to find the setting that always reroutes the bass to the sub.

Now,just run a cable from the subwoofer preout jack of the receiver to one of the input jacks on the sub.

1)put the woof in a good corner of the room,

2)be sure to calibrate it(and the rest of your system) using test tones and a RS SPL meter.

3)don't forget to tweak the phase control of the sub too...you might find a setting the really helps the bass *blend* better with the rest of the system.

Let me know how it goes,

TV

[Amit]

Thanks tom,

First of all the subs sound great, you were right. Boy you guys at SVS are so honest, it's almost unbelievable. Anyways i have another question. If i want to use a lower cross over point than my reciever (80hz) on music, than can i hook it up through the speaker level inputs. And if so would i have to turn the sub off in my reciever, because if i don't than wouldn't the LFE out on my reciever continue to send a signal and cross at 80hz. Lets say i did do that and set the sub at 40hz, then would i still have to use the LFE out on my reciever for movies. I have heard of people using both line level and low level inputs, but the problem is you have to adjust the cross over everytime you watch movies and music.

Anyways this is what i would have to do for each source, i think!

Music-

Set crossover at 40hz on sub, turn sub off in reciever, set speakers to ? (large or small) on reciever, not sure maybe you could fill me in.

Movies

Set crossover on sub back to 80 hz, turn sub on in the reciever, set speakers to large on reciever so it will also cross at 80 hz.

I think i am right above, if not could you please correct me, and tell me if i will run into any problems when using both low and high level inputs.

Sorry for the long questions, but thanks for your help again Tom!

[Seb]

don't use the speaker-level inputs and outputs on the PW-2200.

I used to, but now I realise it's not worth it.

The xover on the sub is actually a high-pass filter, meaning it crosses everything over to 80Hz (i.e. your speakers are not getting below 80Hz, or rather they are getting less, since an xover is progressive)

but it limits the ouput of the sub above, say, 50Hz, if that's what you set the knob at. so you'd be missing some sound! that's what happened to me, so I had to set the sub's xover knob to about 80Hz anyways, not thinking that it would be equivalent if I just ran it out of the preouts and set everything to small. Plus, you get better-quality hookups, and you don't have anything affecting the signal (liek a xover) between the amp and the speakers.

Just hook up the sub to the sub preout of the receiver, then set everything to small. This is the simplest hookup, and the results will be better than using both low-level and speaker-level inputs. Again, remember crossovers are progressive, so your speakers will still get quite a bit of info under 80Hz!

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http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid go laugh at my crappy website...

This message has been edited by Seb on 02-18-2002 at 09:47 AM

[Amit]

Sorry, but one more question about PW-2200

Here is some of TV's data on those subs as tested by Tom Nousaine.

Paradigm PW 2200 (early test) 107.4 /20hz~91db (112.8 peak)

Paradigm PW 2200 (most recent test data) 107.4 / 20hz~84db / 25hz 104db / (112.8 peak)

I notived that the PW-2200 has two readins at 20 hz, one is 91~db and the other is 84~db, why is there two different readings, were they done in two different size room, my room is about 2040 cubic feet, so what kind of spl can i expect at 20 hz.

Thanks Tom, and Seb!

Text

[boa12]

when u use the sub preout & hence the receivers crossover (fixed or variable), i'd always switch the cross control on the sub itself out or if u don't have that switch turn it up to 120hz or as far up as it goes. LFE is speced to 120hz & have heard some mixers even go as far as 180hz. i just hate the idea of losing any material. of course that just me.

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My Home Systems Page

[TVodhanel]

The measurements were taken in the same room. I asked TN about this and he said it was probably *acceptable unit-unit variation*. Since the 20hz dropped,but everything else went up slightly...it looks like the newer unit was just tuned a little higher.

At 20hz,one meter from a corner loaded unit...I would guess about 106-109dBs.

TV

[Amit]

Any idea what the room size was when the Paradigm SPL measurments were taken. You see the guy at the store, told me that if i wanted to buy a second PW-2200 i would have to purchase it within 30 days to take advantage of a low price of $600. I may be moving into a new house with a much bigger room, that's why i am asking about spl. I may or may not need a second, but only SPL measurement will tell me what to do.

Thanks again!

[HornEd]

Amit, adding the second 2200 will add 6dB's to your total. Since the Dolby Minimum Reference Level for theaters is 121.5dB, adding a second sub will be an advantage. Further, picking up a 2200 for such a low price makes it an excellent investment should you want to sell it later. Go for it! HornEd

PS: Please understand that neither Dolby nor I would expect you to listen to things that loud (121.5dB). The Minimal Reference Level is about the loudest sound that you can possibly hear on a system for a fraction of a second. Two SVS Ultras driven by 1,000 watts can exceed the minimum by a dB or so, but you will not be able to do so with two P2200's. Plus, buying two for $1,200 should make you proud and economically blessed as a Canadian.

This message has been edited by HornEd on 02-19-2002 at 12:28 PM

[TVodhanel]

>>>Any idea what the room size was when the Paradigm SPL measurments were taken.<<<

7500 cu-ft,2 meters from a corner loaded unit...using a strict 10% thd limit.

add 8.1dB to goto TN's old 2136cu-ft room...add another 6dB to go from 2m to 1m.

So add 14.1dB to get an idea of what it would do at 1m in Nousaine's smaller room. Add another 3-6dB to go from 10%thd limit to the onset on audible THD with source material imo.

TV

[TheEAR]

HornEd,

"Dolby Minimum Reference Level for theaters is 121.5dB"

Yeah yeah when you stick the mic next to the speakers maybe.LOL

I was in many movie theaters and so far none even came close to 115dB.Maybe if I had both ears glued to the horns of the large JBL's would I get 121.5dB at 1KHz.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[HornEd]

Hey, careful there... wouldn't want you to get a "TheEars(s) Ache" when the Matrix hits the fan. You have had quite a tête-a-tête with Tom Vodhanel, ask him about the Dolby Minimum Standard for Theaters.

Obviously, a great many theaters don't make it... but as Tom will also tell you, my home theater does... and no, there is no mike stuck up against the speaker business.

What being able to reach the minimum means is that any sound that Dolby Digital puts on a DVD is likely to be heard in my HT. Getting there isn't easy... and I left a dozen or so subs along the way. For now, both my ears and SPL meter are happy. From the sound of some of your posts you may be headed there to... may TheEar(s) ears survive the journey with the acuity to appreciate the next plateau.

Respectfully yours (e.g., without standing wave smiley) HornEd

[forresthump]

Maybe Earwax could stack all those sunflowers in one 5 foot high column and call it the stack of crap.

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go forth & hump the world

[TVodhanel]

Reference level = 105dBs from each main channel on dynamic peaks, 115dBs from the LFE channel on dynamic peaks. This is at the key seats in the room.

If you set all speakers to small, the LFE + the summed full range channels =121dB headroom needed for reference level dynamic peaks.

Then you have the guys who like to have the subs 3-6dB *hot* on the SPL meter...

Factor in the 2-3dB inherent meter rolloff during a sub calibration tone and the sub is about 5-9dB hot.

So at reference, they are 5-9dB OVER reference on the woofs.

Very few DVDs are going to push a system to these levels on a regular basis of course.

TV

[TheEAR]

TV and HornEd,

With all due respect I dont question the 121dB mark,its just most theaters even if they are capable of this output most of the time the loudest passages are near 100-106dB where you sit.

121dB is nothing to enjoy its damn loud.

I have no doubt all your KLF30's and twin SVS Ultras can reach and go beyond the REFERENCE level.My Klipsch RF-7's,RF-5's(sourrounds)and RC-7 with the four Sunfire subs can surpass 120dB in my room,and with SPL to spare.This only using the ATI 1505 as the main amp,with the 2505 I get a dB or so more ...at this level your ears will bleed from extreme output.

ForrestDump,

Welcome back on the board,the board was a better place when you were taking your long nap at the looney house. And again you surpass your little self with this bright post!...as always nothing worthy to say.

"Maybe Earwax could stack all those sunflowers in one 5 foot high column and call it the stack of crap"

LOL

Dont worry ForrestGump only two Sunfire Signatures(a bit over 24" high)will leave your HUGE sub in the dust.

Now go take another nap

TheEAR(s) Now theears