Custon 2 & 3 differences?

[jleewach]

Hey guys. Just a quick question about the above 2 iem's. I've recently been on a quest to try just about every make & model of earphones, including offerings from shure, ultimate ears, etymotic, phonak, etc.... and the Custom line definately has my favorite sound signature. I've tried all 3 models (custom 1, 2 & 3). That being said, is it strange that my favorite of the three is the custom 2's? They all sounded good, but I actually enjoyed the sound of the 2's over the 3's. Is it possible that the custom 3's I auditioned were defective? They sounded good, but I just felt that the custom 2's had a more balanced response. Could someone explain what the actual differences between the custom 2's & 3's? I've been told they both have dual armature setups, so I'm a bit confused as to what makes the custom 3's "better," especially since I tended to prefer the 2's.

Thanks for the help!

Jeremy (recently converted Klipsch fanboy [ )

[Professor Thump]

Could you describe what you heard between them?

[jleewach]

it just seemed like the bass on the c3's was more dominant than on the c2's, which I preferred. I just wondered if this was a normal trait between the 2 & what the technical differences were between both, since they both have dual armatures.

thanks.

[Stocklone]

Every review I have read said the 3's are more bass heavy than the 2's to the point where the 2's seem more natrual in terms of balance. So it looks right to me.

I think I remember reading something about a crossover in the 3's that is not in the 2's but I could be wrong.

[BLSamuel]

Professor Thump will probably chime in soon. Both the Custom 2 and Custom 3 have dual armatures. They are the same in the Custom 2 though I think are tuned a bit differently by the IEM "enclosure" and maybe venting. The Custom 3 has dual armatures and a really teeny crossover. One armature is optimized for bass and one is optimized for treble. I would expect even better bass with the Custom 3 but also better highs.

I've owned the Custom 2 since they first came out and more recently we've added a set of Image X10. I've not tried the Custom 3 but actually prefer the Image X5 over the Image X10 and Custom 2. But the Image X5 bodies are too big for our youngest daughter's tiny ear canals. I'd think the Custom 3 should yes have better bass then the Custom 2 though they are not lacking and probably not too far behind the Image X10 but the Custom 3 should also have better highs.

Go the the main headphone page and select option, then select display all as it defaults and I think gets reset to display only the most recent 2 months of posts as there should be a few threads discussing the differences. I'm sure Professor Thump will chime in again soon.

I'd think the Custom 3 should sound like improved Custom 2 with better bass and much improved highs.

(edit. jeesh... did I say the Custom 3 should sound like Custom 2 with better bass and better highs enough times)

I type like a broken record

[Professor Thump]

Some of the earlier key information seems to be getting buried in all the posts. Such as this answer to your question.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/94657.aspx?PageIndex=4

How many arms do I need?Here is the lowdown as best as I can explain it without you having the earphone models in your ears.... Before I explain how many armatures you need. Let's go over some terms first:IEM or IE = In Ear Monitor - this is usually a professional level earphone that is customized to fit your ear canals. The performer will use these to minimize stage volumes, so they can work for more than 10 years without losing your hearing. With lower volumes it is easier for them to control what they want to hear in the monitor mix thus saving their hearing. Now the performer can stay on pitch and keep good timing. PM = Personal Monitors, earphones with armaturesHeadphones or HP = General description for all typesEarbuds = Similar to the Apple headphones with Moving coil transducers insideEntry Level PM's.......... use a simple balanced armature. The challenge the engineer has primarily rests in the balance armature design itself, the damper and the nozzle design. This is a very difficult task to make full range since the transducer will work well in the LF or the HF but not generally wideband. Typically the Bass, Vocals or Drums suffer the most with this design, sounding slightly harsh or not having any output that is audible in that range. In other words the vocal sounds throaty or scratchy depending on the model. There is also limited SPL with this design due to being a single arm design. Even with these disadvantages it sounds better than any moving coil design that I have heard since the mass of the diaphragm is much less the HF is much more accurate than a standard earbud with a moving coil. Custom 1 has been optimized to give the best balance of LF and HF. This design uses a KG332 armature. Mid Level PM's............ use either premium single armatures that are usually smaller or dual armatures with minimal or no EQ. Each product has its limitations. For Klipsch's IMAGE PM a premium armature is used which is a proprietary KG926 driver. The KG926 is ultra compact. Less weight generally means more comfort because there is less force on the ear canal. This model has "special sauce" which I can't go into, due to its proprietary nature, but it is very full range with delicate high's and smooth deep bass. The sound is very accurate due to its light weight diaphragm and the multiple levels of treatment to the design. Generally speaking people will have a hard time complaining about this design. It is easy to use and sounds very accurate. Vocals are silky smooth and drums have a nice snap to them. You can not believe your ears...a product this size sounding this full! The primary limitation is that it is small so you must have a good air seal or you will loose bass. The way we have minimized this problem is by making the chassis micro small with a thin aluminum extruded body or chassis. This small diameter allows the armature to get closer to your eardrum than all of the others models out there. Precision machining is required to make this model, and the design is complicated to get correct due to its size. The patent pending eartip also insures a better seal since it is similar to the shape of your ear.

Another type of mid level design is using dual armatures similar to our Custom 2. In the Custom 2 design we have partnered with Sonion and have applied for a patent on this armature, so I can talk about some of the details. The KG534 driver is really two drivers i.e. two motors two armatures and two diaphragms that are tandem (back to back). The benefit of this design is that the diaphragms pump air in opposing directions so any vibration modes are minimized. Think of this similar to dual air bellows on your fireplace with a single nozzle. When you have dual diaphragms your SPL increases by 3 dB and your distortion goes down because it is not working as hard. Part of our applied patent evolves around the low pass acoustic filter that is built into one of the two armatures. This give Klipsch greater control over the EQ since we can have two pistons, one optimized for bass and one optimized for full range. This baby rocks! Musicians will love this product because it is portable yet very efficient. Your vocals will stand out in the mix as an IEM application.

Update... You can see the Custom 2 Patent Application Here:

http://www.klipsch.com/Klipschnotes/032009/Custom2.pdf

High Level PM's...............use two or three armatures and a passive crossover. Our Custom 3 goes much further. Not only does it have two different types of drivers and a passive crossover it also has a patent pending low pass acoustic filter. The Custom 3 utilizes a Klipsch KG723 for the HF tweeter which is a premium armature. This allows the vocals to be ultra silky and very low in distortion. The LF is implemented by a KG732 armature for the LF woofer. The Custom 3 has TWO low pass filters the armature has an internal LP filter plus an additional.... you guessed.... patent pending LP filter on the outside which is optimized for a very low crossover point in such a small chassis without sacrificing sensitivity in the low region of the response. This bad boy has it all! Looks! Comfort! And Concert Level Sound! The passive crossover has 5 components more than any other in its league. With the two acoustic filters and a second order crossover, the LF has a 24 dB per octave rolled off at 1 kHz. Why so low? Everyone else seems to crossover above the vocal region but we wanted to eliminate Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) so we have removed the kick drum and bass tones from the tweeter so the diaphragm can concentrate on silky highs without movement from the LF signal. This also allows us to take advantage of the shape of the crossover for additional EQ in the midrange. The vocals are so natural that this high end IEM won't fatigue your ears like most designs can. But my favorite part is the BASS. I use to have a regional touring pro sound system for live performance applications. I had eight 18 inch 1000 watt drivers just for the subs, so I don't have to tell you how much I can appreciate good clean bass. Image hearing headphones flat BELOW the musical bandwidth. There is no limitation to the bass. I just wish it would shake my pant legs like my pro system did. I encourage everyone to try this product before the buy any other. You will find that the money was well spent.So what type of HP do you need? You will have to be the judge, but you will need to keep in mind that there is a reason why there is large range of prices. The number of arms does make a difference for the IE headphone family. Why don't you stick it in your ears!

[paisley1]

The practical side of what Thump is saying I resonate with. I notice a HUGE difference from the custom-1's to the custom 3's while listening to any surround sound movie, tv show or theatrical score, it's phenomenal really. The custom-1's are consistently tinny and scratchy in the high end, for example, the sound of gunfire on HBO's The Pacific sounds like rocks rattling against a metal garbage can, but with the custom-3's, the gunfire is a quieter and more uniform (balanced) "thud" sound, which is easier on the ears and closer to the sound of my speakers. As well, my ears don't get sore with the custom-3's as they did with the custom-1's, as I'm not straining my ears listening, as I was always cranking up the volume on my custom-1's to try and hear what I'd hear on my speakers, even with the bass booster on, on my ipod. Little sounds are also far more pronounced and warmer, most notably, the clarity of the bass on theatrical scores with the custom-3's, listen to Bear McCreary's "Prelude to War" from Battlestar Galactica's season 2 soundtrack and let the custom-3's woofer blow your mind away!!! The custom-3's clarity on acoustic music like Eric Clapton's "Tears in Heaven" is the same thing, where little sounds, like hammer on's and pulls, are distinct and clear, as well, no "ssssssssssss" sound in the background on acoustic tracks with the help of that low pass acoustic filter....you may not notice it now, but it's definitely there without the custom-3's, all adding to easier listening than the custom-1's. I couldn't imagine using my ipod headphones, after experiencing the noise cancellation of the custom-1's, but with the custom-3's, I'm just plain spoiled.

The strength of the cord and the ear hook were huge selling points for me with the custom-1's at the time of purchase over comparable Shure and Westone earbuds, as I just draw the cord under my shirt to my ipod in my pocket then hook the earbuds on the top of my shirt when I take them out, instead of having to pocket them....but yes, they do get tangled quite easily with the cord, but to me that's a necessary evil for those of us who are rough on their toys and need the added strength over comfort, and don't want earbuds dangling when they're not in-ear. Rough and lazy. Apathy at it's finest! []