XTi

[jbpjr]

When is budget not an issue.

I was just going to go with the XTi’s because that was recommended to power jbl 3731. Was told I should get the 1000’s and either 2000’s or 4000’s to bi-amp front.

Not sure which 3-way speaker I will eventually get, hopefully some kpt’s. Just figured that if the XTi’s would be good for jbl 3-way, they should be fine with any comparable 3-way. I thought the XTi where considered good amps, not cheap alternatives.

I do believe that you need the DSP for cinema speakers, not completely sure how all that works yet.

The I-Tech is much more than I had planned on spending for amps, would probably be looking at stuff other than crown at that price.
You do need DSP to bi-amp a 3-way speaker, right?
If not, I’ll definitely look at the CT series.

Thanks for the info. Separates are new for me, and really don’t completely understand how you setup and power 3-way commercial. Then trying to get amps that will work with both what I have now, kl-650 and then some cinema 3-way.

Glad you chimed in when you did. Was planning on buying the XTi's today, last day for rebate.

Open to suggestions. What would you use to power kpt335, if different from previous recommendations? The kpt speakers would be a step-up in sound quality and fullness over the kl-650? Why should I expect to have to deal with hiss on the larger speakers, how do you resolve it? Thanks

[Chris A]

Note: the Crown XTi series uses a digital signal processor (DSP) on a full-time basis to do electronic crossover of speakers, equalization (parametric), and driver delay to adjust for the differing path length of the bass bin to the upper driver(s) for horn-loaded bass speakers such as a Belle, La Scala, Khorn or Jubilee, or large-horn loaded upper drivers with a direct-radiator woofer, such as the JBL 3731. Power is not an issue with the JBLs, whose listed sensitivity is 103 db/W-m. The power rating of the XTi-1000 275 W/channel into 8 Ohms is "plenty", unless you are using these units in a theater or outdoor setting such as a PA application. In a home environment, I doubt you would need 1/100 of that power capacity (i.e., 2.75 W rms into 8 Ohms) on a steady-state basis.

In order to avoid the cost of reasonably good electronic crossover(s) such as the EV Dx38 (new price is $1500 list, ~$1200 street) and any downstream amplifiers of your choice, the Crown XTi offers outstanding value. However, if you are not bi-amping or tri-amping your speakers, you probably do not need an XTi. There are other Crown amplifier models that will probably suit you more, as Mike Bentz (Dr Who) mentions above.

Chris

[DrWho]

There is nothing particularly wrong with the XTi...I'm even running
two of them in my system. I just wanted to make sure you were making an
informed decision as there are many other options out there.

Unless
you plan on cranking over 130dB in your living room, I would just stick
with the XTi-1000 throughout the system. Eventually, when you get your
cinema speakers in your living room, you will need some form of active
xover before the amplifiers. The XTi amplifiers have it built into
their front end. Another alternative is to get several normal
amplifiers and then run an external active xover, like an EV Dx38. In
either situation, the output from your preamp (or your receiver's
preouts) would be sent to the DSP (either the Dx38 or the built-in one
on the XTi), and then gets sent to the amplifier. You will need one
amplifier channel per driver, so in a three way stereo system, you need
6 channels of amplification. In a 2-way, you only need four channels.
Keep in mind that the Dx38 can only do stereo 2-way...you'll need a
bigger active xover if you want to do stereo 3-way.

If you were looking for the best bang for the buck, then I would
highly recommend the XTi, and then I would highly recommend custom
ordering the 2-way Klipschorn Jubilee. I've heard the HF and LF on the
JBL 3731 in other systems and would definitely take the 2-way Jub over
it. You'll need to contact Roy Delgado at Klipsch if you want to order
the 2-way as it is a special order:
roy.delgado@klipsch.com

Bill Hendrix is running the 2-way Jubs with XTi amplifiers in his theater and is loving it:
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/106420.aspx

Bill is a real cool dude and knows the Klipsch Cinema lineup inside and
out...and has some cool solutions for his center and surrounds as well.

Speaking of which, what were your plans for the rest of the speakers in your setup?

[jbpjr]

I thought with a 3-way speaker, you could just use 2 amp channels per speaker, one for low and one for mid-high? Thought you could get 3-ways configured for bi-amp.

You would prefer 2-way jubilee over a 3-way kpt-335? I thought that 3-way would be a better sounding speaker.

Haven't put too much thought into speakers yet, will be 2+ years before I move. Want to get 3 matching speakers for the front. Probably just use the kl/ks 525's for surrounds and the 4 kw-120's, will eventually upgrade the subs.

Can the XTi's dsp do 3 channel stereo? Would the XTi1000 be enough to power the LF on either jubilee or 335? What's the asking price on the jubilee's, do they require corners?

[Islander]

For home use, the 2-way Jubilees sound great. The earliest Khorns were 2-way, but when recordings started to have a broader frequency range, PWK had to go 3-way because of the limited-range drivers available then. When designing the Jubilee with Roy Delgado, the new bass unit and the newer drivers available allowed them to make it a 2-way, which has one less crossover point and one less potential phase shift point than a 3-way speaker, or at least that's how I understand it. I know from personal experience that the 2-way JubScala sounds much better than the already good 3-way La Scala. The cinema version of the Jubilee is 3-way to supply the extra volume needed in a big auditorium.

I don't know whether the KPT-335 comes in a version that's optimized for home use.

Jubilees do not require corners, but like most Klipsch speakers, can benefit from corner placement.

[DrWho]

I thought with a 3-way speaker, you could just use 2 amp channels per speaker, one for low and one for mid-high? Thought you could get 3-ways configured for bi-amp.

Well you could do it that way, but it would require a passive xover between the MF and HF. Keep in mind that stock cinema xovers usually have an EQ built in to compensate for HF loss through the screen. In the home, this will result in over exagerated highs.

You would prefer 2-way jubilee over a 3-way kpt-335? I thought that 3-way would be a better sounding speaker.

The 3-way will go louder for sure, but it introduces another xover point and all the compromises that come with it. My main concern, especially with pro cinema in the home, is that the tweeter always ends up very high in the air, which I find makes the highs sound detached from the rest of the music. The 2-way sounds extremely cohesive and way smoother.

Btw, if you were dead set on 3-way, then I would probably take the 3-way Jub over the KPT-335. Keeping everything hornloaded is where it's at.

You 'could' do 3-channel stereo with the XTi, but it would be a workaround as there is no specific function for doing this. A single XTi 1000 would be enough to drive the Jub LF to over 130dB. I think your KL650's poop out around 120dB or so? The LF on the KPT-335 would probably max out around 120dB or so with an XTi-1000. The MF and HF would be even louder. I wanna say the 2-way Jub is around 7k to 9k for a pair.

[jbpjr]

When you say using the XTi for front 3 would be a workaround, could you elaborate? If you where going to setup 3 2-way jubilees or similar across the front with xti's, how would you do that? What would the physical connections look like and how would the amps dsp work? Do you split the signal coming off back of pre-amp, having it go to 2 xti's. Then let xti dsp filter correct frequecies, having one amp handle the LF and the other the MF/HF? Thanks for any info.

[DrWho]

Well it depends on how you want to do your 3-channel stereo, but you should be able to hook the L output from your preamp to Channel 1 on the amplifier and then hook the R output from your preamp to Channel 2 on the same amplifier. In the DSP you can tell it to sum channels 1 and 2 together....so that both amplifier outputs are getting both channels. You would then send the channel 1 output to the LF and the channel 2 output to the HF. Adjusting the relative balance of the inputs will determine how much of each channel is in each amplifier.

I would need to doublecheck that it actually works this way though...I've never tried it.

But if it works this way, then you would need an XTi for the left, the center and the right channel. The LR output from your preamp would go into one of the XTi's and then you could just use the daisychain ouptuts on the XTi to send taht same signal to the other two amplifiers. So basically, all 3 amplifiers would be sent the LF stereo signal. The only catch is that it would only work for 2-way mains (since you can't do 3-way with a single XTi).