TKA Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 Any one familiar with digital amps? Bel Canto is the only one I have heard of. (http://www.belcantodesign.com/) As I understand they are on the level of tube amps but at a lower price point. TKA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaypea Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 Stick with good class A/B solid state, or if you can afford it - tubes or solid state class A. Class D is basically digital. Your ears and music are analog devices. Nuff said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCklipsch Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 this one is called class T. See www.tripath.com for further informatin, the tripath chip set is the engine of the Bel Canto amp. I believe the digital amp will direct the future of the amp design, simply due to the decrease in weight, heat and size with the efficency >90%. This is especially true for nowadays multchannel home theater environment. Although the digital amp is not at its prime time at this moment, it does eliminate the cross over distortion in the class A/B amp design and this make it approach class A SET amp design. Of cause, all this assume the amp operates with min jitter, good output filter, excellent dithers and so on. In addition, digital amp also provide basis for the full end to end digital chain music reproduction. In theory the chip set can be designed to take the digital output from CD player and drive the speaker directly. Digital signal processing can also be used to do EQ on amplitude and phase. This will natually lead to digital crossover and multi-amp configuration. I speculate Klipsch's purchase of Aragon will have something to do with this design in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider124 Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 These amps have thier own problems. One of the biggest problems with these amps is the speaker-level low-pass filters. This tripath setup specs out an 80khz 2nd order filter using an18uH inductor. You can either use iron-core (shudder), or an unimaginably expensive (given the DC resistance and inductance you want) air-core inductor. Also, while it is somewhat unquantifiable, and I have never heard one so this may be bunk, but... For instance, a $2000 DAC really truly sounds much better than a $200 one. Why do we assume that moving the DAC into the amp can eliminate the neccesity for a truly high-quality digital to analog conversion stage? I DO expect that these amps will break into much of the area dominated by large MOSFET class A/B amps (PA, subs, large theater HT systems), but I doubt they will EVER compete, or even compare to Class A amps and maybe even good Bipolar Class A/B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 Sharp has introduced a new, high-end digital integrated amp that was well received by Michael Fremer in Stereophile a while back. Don't some subwoofers already use class D switching amps? I definitely think this will be a growth area, and not just for subs. As for music and ears being analog; Although our eardrums are analog devices, I believe that the way the brain actually receives information from the ears and processes sound has been likened to an analog to digital conversion. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Evans Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 The strength of a sound recording chain is that of its weakest link not necessarily the amp-speaker end. Forget not that however good the repro-end is it still leaves a very long chain of digito-analog links along the recording, mastering, & mixing process. This industry in interested in music sales not in gold plating their studios so their equipment is and will be plain'ol industrial grade stuff. This basic oversight has had many an audiophool in search of Will-o'-the-wisp. Having said that no doubt digital amps will evolve but will undergo the similar & long growing pains CD went through in 'replacing' Vinyl. But I think they will have a hard time getting into 'Hi-End' audio. Forget not also that the new SACD (super audio ) format is a kinda 'type' of class D bit stream system running at 2.8+MHz which to my ears is vastly better than standard CD ( PCM) so there is hope for digital amps if they can approach SACD standards. (BTW, one of the reasons for SACD's goodness is that it does away with digital filtering needing only a gentle analog filter to remove sampling artifacts.) George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCklipsch Posted February 28, 2001 Share Posted February 28, 2001 I think digital amp is already in the High-End arena. There are at least two more: 1. Tact (backed by NAD, just think about the implication here) at www.tactaudio.com, very expensive and class A listing in the Stereophile mag(I may be wrong on this). 2. The Spectron at www.spectronav.com, from the original infinity founder. Tact is highly praised in the British Hi-Fi mags. You can aslo find the reviews of the Spectron amp in www.audioreview.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Basboell Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 I have been using digital amps for quite a long time, and some of them really works well. But my point is, that most of the discussion here seems to be based on rumors more than on experience and/or understanding of the problems involved. So a few hints: There are basically two competing principles used for the moment. The first is the classical class D which can now be made very good but for a long period it was only a bad joke, probably because it was designed by computer people and the processors were too slow. They have a defined sampling frequency, and the Tact is a real marvel of beauty when used for CD's as you might say that either the converter or the amplifier is disappearing. Then CD's seems to be nearly acceptable. But it is difficult to make it cheap. The other solution is the use of spread spectrum technology which is more cost effective but does not have a digital input although some people are working on it. As there is no defined sampling frequency, it behaves quite differently from other systems. But it works well as an analog to analog device. In both cases the skill of the designer is important as it always is. Soeren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I just got a Panasonic SA-XR25 ht receiver with full digital path amplification, and I must say I like it a lot so far. I'll have to listen for a couple weeks to let it really sink in. But my first impression is a very smooth and detailed sound at low levels and up to moderately loud. I haven't tried cranking it up yet. I get a slight hint of congestion on certain passages. But I'm not sure if that's the recording, the RF-7 speakers, or the receiver. It's an excellent sounding peice for a 199.00 surround receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 As ma' dear friend Tony is now dead set on getting himself a pair of B&W 802's he has been evaluating various high power amps. Amongst these is a digital amp from Yamaha. Weighs around 20 lbs and provides 500 wpc in 8 ohms!!!! He has heard it next to a bevy of high end stuff driving a pair of 801's (even worse to drive than the 802). Apparently it was right up there with the big boys (Krells, Levinsons and a massive Classe) and at around $4,000 is a comparitive bargain (note : comparitive - some of these other amps are $20,000 and more). Anyway he is planning to get one and then I'll let you all know what it sounds like...with 802's hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I have an 8 watt stereo amp using a tripath chip. It was designed and built by LEOK from this forum. It is Class T as I recall. Not similar to Class D in low watt low distortion. Many knowledgable people i have played it for are amamzed by its performance with 97 + db efficient speakers. The may be a whaite paper posted in previous threads you could search for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Aren't those Halcro amps all Class D? They are supposed to be the best thing going right now. I don't know.... I still like my 2004 Mk II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 it is really amazing how many people who have never heard any sort of digital amp and have developed opinions against the technology.... goes to show the ignorance (and arrogance) of many people.... i have used a variety of amps in my system over the years.... solid state and tube amps..... last october i purchased a carver professional ZR1000 digital amplifier based upon a tripath chip..... this is the best amp that i have ever had in my system and one of the best amps that i have ever heard at any price..... it has an extremely low noise floor (with my very revealing KLF-30's) and plenty of power for my home theater (225 watts per channel)...... i had been searching for a good price on a used bel canto when i discovered all the internet buzz on these amps from carver professional...... and an additional benefit from this amp is the price.... there are many places online where you can buy this amp for about $750 do yourself a favor and go out and audition a digital amp...... by the way... class D amps are totally different from the digital amps under discussion..... here are the associated websites for further reading! http://www.carverpro.com/2003/products/zramps.html http://www.tripath.com/tech.htm there are quite a few threads over on audiocircle.com concerning the ZR series of amps.... http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/search.php?mode=results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I read Leo's and other remarks about the benifits of keeping the watts down with solid state amps on high efficiency speakers. The Panasonic is rated at 100 wpc, so I was concerned that sound might not be good at lower volume levels. But so far the Panasonic sounds great even at very low volume levels. I don't know about high levels yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Audio Flynn, It'd be interesting to hear your 8 watt tripath amp in comparison. I've heard that the Griffin Powerwave USB audio device uses a 20 watt tripath amp, and sounds great if used with a tube pre-amp. I think the Panasonic uses Texas Instrument stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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