DrWho Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 So Ilkka's measurements show the F113 doing 101dB at 20Hz with over 20% THD. As far as that second link... This is important to note because my measurements reflect the room that they were taken in. What's more important is that all the subs here were measured in the same room, so no one subwoofer had an advantage. The measurements were taken with a 1.5GHz PC running SpectraLab Pro. The samples were measured with a calibrated microphone using C weighting. Distance from the corner of the room to the listening position was roughly 12 feet, in a room a little under 3600 ft3. Frequency sweeps were run from 10 Hz to 100 Hz. The volume was raised little by little until the sonic quality started to change. C weighting happens to be 6dB down by 20Hz... http://www.noisemeters.com/help/faq/frequency-weighting.asp Adding 6dB at 20Hz to the second link puts the RSW-15 at 6dB down relative to everything else, which happens to coincide with Klipsch's spec. I've measured three different RSW-15's in very different rooms and the F3 has always been well below 20Hz (but of course there is some room gain there). The RSW-15 can do 121dB at 30Hz in 1/8space, which would be 115dB as measured by Ilkka. The RSW-15 is at most 6dB down at 19Hz (but let's call it 20), which puts its max output to 109dB peak. 2400W is about 6dB more than 650W (actually less), so you can figure that the RSW-15 can do 103dB continuous at 20Hz (taking into account the continuous rating of the amplifier). That's about 2dB more than the F113 and I can guarantee that it will be lower than 20% THD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 DrWHO, SOME room gain,excuse me SOME! In a room any room there PLENTY of room gain. A sub will measure as much as 10dB higher below 30hz ...take that same great performer GP ...outside and watch the performance drop like a stone. One thing I agree and...we all use our subs inside and not GP so...[] Yes the RSW15 is a cleaner sub,however measured GP the f113 as pesky as it is has more output(before audible distortion makes itself known)kicks in. Good to have someone to argue a bit. Nothing personal. Now changing the subject a bit...what brands(models) of studio monitors do you prefer? Yes studio monitors,strictly for monitoring and as "flat" say neutral as possible.I have purchased Genelec's 8030's and 8050's as well as the larger 1039's(third largest and still huge and ...ah mucho moolah...too much).I find these babies are very neutral and sound amazing. The new Yamaha MSP and HS series are quite good(for the price) again quite neutral(with the small irregularities that made the classic Yamah NS10M so popular ). Next KH(Klein + Hummel) caught my attention , very Genelec like. Dynaudio's AIR lineup is quite something too,these have that non fatiguing top end that while not as clinical as the KH or Genelec does not detract from neurality...too much. KRK's nothing special,in fact too rolled off(I did not hear the Expose). ADAM are very nice,incredible detail thanks to the tweeter they use and in the upscale models the great Hexacone mid-bass(ETON?).A bit fatiguing ,the rest all being good. I have to listen to some upscale JBL's and TAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 It's all in good fun - I hope my posts come off that way too. TheGenelec monitors are pretty good. I can also get good results with theMackie 824. I haven't liked any of the KRK or Alesis speakers I've comeacross - there's just something weirdly rounded to their sound - it'shard to describe. Some of the oldDunlavy's are real nice too. Atthe end of the day, every studio monitor has its own flavor so I'm ofthe opinion that you need a few different monitors so that you can honein on different areas of the music. In the past, the majority ofmy tracking has actually been performed with Realistic Minimus 7's.They're only good between 100Hz and maybe as high as 10kHz, but they'renot at all fatiguing and also make a good car audio reference. I get90% of my mic placement and compression settings done on the 7's andthen switch over to something like a Mackie or Genelec to smooth outthe last 10%. I monitor with the nicer speakers at 85dB and then about70dB with the Minimus 7's. I also run with a pair of AKG K240headphones....they're the driest things on the planet so you knowyou're there when you can get nice clean fat bass out of them. I don't think I'd listen to any studio monitor in the home though. I'm just not a big fan of nearfield listening for enjoyment. Tokinda get it back on topic, I dunno if I'd use either the RSW-15 or theF113 in a studio environment. I usually turn off the sub when mixingfor music (until the producer or the band wants to list to a few cuts).I think getting the bass right in the studio is one of the hardestparts of mixing because it's so dominated by the room and most studiosare way too small....not to mention you have no control or knowledge ofthe rooms the final customers will be listening in. I would like to hear some of the JBL monitors again sometime. I heard a couple a long time ago and was rather put off by them. I think it was a 4380 or something like that? I'm so bad at remembering numbers and I'm too lazy to look them up. They had the buttcheek tweeter and dual woofers to the side. I didn't know TAD made studio monitors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 DrWHO, Thanks for the honest repply,I apreciate and value good input. KRK have what I call a round(gently rolled)top end ,the popular ROOKIT are not accurate at all.If people only knew how much better Yamaha monitors are...if they only left fabricated prejudice at home. Realistic's Minimus 7's are classics,I had a pair in white...gave them away. The RatShack had them on special for $99/pair back in the 90's and at that time I was very impressed with my purchase.Then they came with the Minimus 77 if memory serves me well, the mid-bass a 5" in the place of the 4" all in a larger alu cabinet. For headphones I tend to favor AKG of late(701's), but prefer open back cans(homeuse of course). Yes TAD does make monitors(at least for the Japanese/Asian/Euro markets mostly).They are very expensive(well what upscale monitors are not) from what I have gathered frompeople who used them...very JBL like.Since they are based(inspired...) by JBL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askbob1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 DrWHO and TheEAR, Since I think both of your attention(s) are here, how would, say, the svs pb ultra 13, klipsch rsw-12, klipsch rw 12d, and any of the higher end velodynes compare to the likes of the two we have been talking about here? Having not actually hear the pb ultra 13, I am thinking it might do it for me simply because I prefer the ported sound a bit more. I really don't have the time for the diy route, or I would. Probably two commercially available subs is what I'll end up with. Speaking of the Realistic Minimus 7's, Without digging them out and looking at the front panel, I had a very good sounding 2-way speaker set that had the nameplate of acoustic designs, but the drivers and the back tag were branded realistic. 8" driver and small tweeter. Very tight sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 askbob1, SVS's Ultra13 has more output below 30hz than the f113, in its "natural" 20Hz tune. When you start blocking the ports to change the tune(lower it) you end up with an underported sub. The best use of the SVS Ultra13 is in the native 20hz tune,all three ports open. With room gain we en up with solid output down to around ~14hz. There are plenty of options in quality subs these days.The Ultra13 being near the top in terms of price/performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I love my RSW 15 and think that in my listening/home theater room, it works brilliantly. I have listened to it and have owned a few others and auditioned SVS and also have a Velodyne and the RSW is the one that works for me. At the end of the day, it's all about you and when you turn it on and say to yourself, damn, that sounds good. I'm biased and I think it looks great too, but I have a ton of copper cones staring at me from every direction. I picked mine up, in pristine condition for $600, and short of it puking in the future, have no desire to look at anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doittoit Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I have a pair of LaScala's and an RSW-12 in a 7200 cubic foot room on an Anthem A5/Anthem D2 listening to music via squeezebox, moview on Panasonic DMP-BD55. I just auditioned an F113 at home this past weekend - had to return the shop's demo this morning. I ordered the f113 after listening for 2.5 hours. I was blown away by what I hear in music (I was happy with my current sub for movies, but it just muddied up the music, so I was running the lascala's full range). I've researched and talked to people about what would mate best with my LaScala's and I had been told if anything will keep up with the transient response of a fully horn-loaded speaker, the f113 will. Boy does it ever. Wife was impressed also both on movies and music (come to find out, she never thought we were getting the SUB out of what I now call "my old subwoofer"). Cranked it all the way up on Crystal Method's Legion of Boom - they're not kidding about the 4" peak to peak excursion - pretty freaky to see. Did listening to some Chopin polonaises, Liszt hungarian rhapsodies just to see how well the sub integrated with my mains (crossed over as recommended by Barry Ober from JL at 80 Hz) on piano - breathtaking. Listened to Dave Brubeck's Time Out (for the 20" tom and upright bass - better than ever - tight, sweet, magnifico). I never would have thought I would cross the 15" woofer from the LaScala's over at 80 Hz - would have thought "What a waste! " - absolutely eye-opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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