RSW-15 Plus RSW-12 awesome combo

[Marathon Man]

Just received new RSW-15 to replace one of my RSW-12's. Now im using a RSW-12 in a rear corner and the 15 up front. Both the 12 and the 15 are a bit peaky in the 60 to 80 Hz range but the ref 30 allow you to setup a notch filter to flatten out the low end freqs. To get the best sound out of my room I have to notch it at 74 Hz @ -5.5 db with a notch width between 61 Hz- 78Hz. This allows me to use the sub at a high enough volume to get the heart throbbing effect I want. Otherwise the 60 - 80 Hz range is to pronounced. I hear a lot of talk about other subs being a lot louder, but I really don't think I could stand bass any louder than the RSW's. The wave is so strong that I can hardly stand the pressure in the inner ear at loud volumes. As a matter of fact with two KSW-15's I used to listen to movies/music at about 110db, but with the RSW's I now only listen at about 80db. You simply cannot stay in the room otherwise. Musically the sub is simply awesome. Tight strong bass accurately reproduced. Movies earth shaking. I did freq sweeps between 20 - 120 Hz, and the sub (RSW-15) is very strong down to 25 Hz. It seems to fall of rather sharply after that but she still shakes the room down to 20 Hz. As I said I don't think I could stand it to be any louder. The RSW-12 does very well down to 30 Hz then falls way off below that, but with it sitting right next to my couch I would not want it any louder. This configuration works well in my room. I think much of what you hear about subs is all relative to the room and the gear you are using. Using the notch filter really helps out in my case a great deal. Well done Klipsch well done.

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MM

This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-01-2002 at 09:17 AM

[TheEAR]

MM,

Well done,enjoy your RSW's.Two subs are always better than one,and four are better...LOL

The RSW line is very musical,no compalinst.Even the small RSW10 is quite a buy for a music system built around sats.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Marathon Man]

Ear.. I saw the pics of your SVS's and they look pretty awsome. I thought about going that route, but I have been in this hobby for a while now and I have never had any success making purchases without auditioning the product. With SVS not being a product that I can put my ear on ( no pun intended) I decided to stick with the Klipsch. Besides I like more clearity than raw bass, and I thought I would get that from the Klipsch as opposed to any other sub other than maybe the Velo HGS-18. I think Klipsch has made great strides with the RSW line, but they can still improve on the amplifire section a bit. All the Klipsch subs that I have listened to in my house seem to have a problem with localization because you have to really crank the sub volume, and that is the reason for the second sub, to even out the sound stage.All and all its a great product. Maybe one day I can get a chance to listen to the SVS, but for now Im going to stay with the two klipsch.

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MM

[TheEAR]

I dont have SVS subs...yet.I tested two Ultras,did not buy them...yet.

I do have many subs but the SVS will be added soon.

Two RSW's should be plenty in 99% of HT setups.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[J Tanman]

I would like to hear an HT with a combination of RSW subs and the SVS subs. The RSWs seem to be very clean and accurate (haven't heard them yet, waiting for my dealer to get them in) and their strengths would seem to mesh well with the SVSs. How about 2 RSW 12s and 2 16-46 SVS CS+ subs for the really subsonic bass. Would be interesting.

[Marathon Man]

Yeah that would be heart stopping. I'm thinking of adding another sub to my system to compliment the two RSW's. Im still auditioning different products at this point. I only wish that I could listen to the SVS's. I am sure that its a great sounding sub by all the kudos given it on this board, but I refuse to make the purchase until I can hear them in my theater. I guess I could inquire about their return policy but if I have to eat the shipping I don't know if that will be a good idea. My wife thinks that Im crazy for not thinking that I have enough bass as it is. Its funny... I also am into marine fish (salt water). I started with a 55 gallon tank and thought that I would never need a larger tank than that. Now I have 300 gallon fish tank and a 120 gallon reef tank. I guess the parallel is when is enough enough? I think Im starting to cross the line of obsession. Oh well. Its only money .

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MM

[TheEAR]

MM,

Well I dont have fish tanks,thanks.I started with a Paradigm PS800 band pass sub.Yes band pass one notey kaboom box from Paradigm.When I heard the output at 40Hz from this small box I said "SOLD".

After I heard the Paradigm PS1000 band pass,I purchased it.More output and true 25Hz bass!WOW Still as defined as splash painting.

And so on I got the Paradigm Servo-15 when it came out,wow now I said to myself REAL DEFINED BASS WITH 16HZ OUTPUT! And so on ...changed subs many times

I purchased the Sunfire Mark II and then other Sunfire subs,and after came Aerial,Revel and Velodyne.

What is next?

SVS SS and JBL Ti-K and I want to build my ultimate sub with four JL Audio 13W7 woofers.And use my ATI 2505 amp to power the beast,or even get a Sunfire Signature HT amp(over 800W RMS per channel into 4 Ohms!).

Who knows where and when I stop? If I loose some hearing I will compensate with KLF30's like good ole Ed. LOL and a few stacked oil barrels.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Marathon Man]

Ear,

I hear ya. I started with an old Cerwin Vega 10" passive sub I purchased with a pair of CW satalites to be used with a pioneer pro logic receiver. DVD's were not thought of yet. Acustic Research was my first powered sub, and from there it was Klipsch ksw-12, (should have stayed with the AR) then the mirage 1500. Not a bad sub by the way for a small room, but for the size of my room it just did not move enough air. Two ksw-15's followed and currentlly im using the RSW-12, and RSW-15. Regarding hearing loss. As technology continues to advance in subwoofer design, and as I move through my 40's I realized that the ole cochlea does not rebound like it used to especially with the two RSW's.

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MM

[Guest JimG]

Glad to hear that someone else is enjoying what I am enjoying. I too have a dual RSW set-up in my main theater. I have an RSW-15 up front and an RSW-12 back behind the sofa. The RSW-15 was more than enough bass, but I wanted to put the RSW-12 back there for nothing more than to help shake the sofa. I have them running about half throttle and they still rattle the house terribly. One day, I'll get around to silencing everything that clatters so that I can continue to experience both my wedded bliss and my penchant for abnormal amounts of low frequencies.

Jim

[HornEd]

Hmmm, Marathon man, it might have been me whose twin SVS Ultras you saw.

I had been running a Klipsch subs 15" front and 12" rear... for quite a while and it was great... and then moved up to two 15" in front and three 12" in rear... and it was even greater!

But I like organ music and other bottom scraping classics... insist on clean, clear, stay with the program bass. I read a lot of posts here and elsewhere and found glowing SVS reports. So I started an email dialogue with Tom Vodhanel of SVS. The first batch of Ultras were about to be assembled and they seemed to have the stats of my heart's desire.

Their policy was a full refund (except for shipping) if you were not satisfied during the first 45 days. So, I wrote a check for $2,700 for a pair of the first batch of Ultras with a Samson 1000 watt amp and an equalizer... and have never looked back.

I own two dozen Klipsch speakers and no sub I have tried before or since brings out their best like the Ultras. And no one has been quicker with sage subhuman advice than Tom Vodhanel.

I love my Klipsch, but I have to give credit where credit is due. HornEd

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HORNED'S EIGHT THEATRICAL LEGENDS,

FIVE+ MUSICAL HERITAGES & A ROADIE...

SETTING THE "THEATER OF THE MIND" STAGE...

KLF 30's: Left Main, Center Main, Right Main

KLF C7's: L & R Front Effects on 5' sand filled columns

KLF 30's: Left Surround, Rear Effects, Right Surround

Twin SVS CS-Ultra SubTower, Samson Megawatt Amp

KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS:

Bass friendly, oversized, glove-leather LazyBoy Recliners

Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver

Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808

CHANNELING THE MUSIC EXPERIENCE FROM 2 TO 6!

'97 Klipschorn - Mains, '99 Klipsch Belle - Center

'83 Cornwall - Surrounds, '93 Academy - Rear Effects

Walnut w/ Cane Grilles. Final Amps, etc. undetermined

THE MOVEABLE (EAR) FEAST...

Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome... an acoustics challenge

vandalized... but soon to be "On the Road Again!" Willie.

[Marathon Man]

JimG,

I am also doing the same thing. battening down the hatches in my theater because the dual rsw's will bring the rattles out for sure. Even at low volumes.

HornED,

I to have been very impressed with threads on this board that praise the SVS products, and I bet its earth moving. The acoustics in my room are really good with the exception of a rattle here and there, and the RSW's give me really good bass reproduction. I don't listen to pipe organ music and for the media I listen to Im not sure if I need anything more earth shattering below 20 Hz, but I am thinking about giving the SVS a try. If I like them I will move the RSW-12 to my music room to replace the KSW-15, and move the KSW-15 to my bedroom system. However im getting a little tired of chasing new hardware, and I just want to enjoy for a while. I have made some major additions to making the room acoustics better which probably makes the biggest difference once you have reached a certain level of quality in your equipment. I will say that with all the talk about the SVS its rather tempting tho. Every speaker in my house is Klipsch and maybe I feel like im betraying the speaker company that I have come to love so much. You all keep talking about the SVS and I might to give in .

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MM

This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-09-2002 at 11:39 AM

[HornEd]

Marathon Man, I know exactly how you feel. I bought the SVS Ultras because I grew tired of waiting for the RSW's to roll off the Hope production lines. From what I have heard and read, they seem like an excellent choice for you.

When I move into a new home later this year, I will seriously consider an RSW or two... for I think Klipsch has clearly upped its sub thinking. But, in fairness to the good folks at SVS, I must say that they have the best price/performance in a quality sub that I have ever encountered... and buying one need not be a fearful step.

Now that I have a dedicated Legend Home Theater and a am completing my dedicated Heritage Music Room... it may at long last time to take a youthful stand and Reference the rest of the house. HornEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-06-2002 at 06:56 PM

[Marathon Man]

HornED,

The picture of the SVS subs that I looked at belonged to Eq_Shadimar. It must have been a combination of the drugs (perscription) and fever of 102 degrees I was running that day. The flu will make you see things that are not there LOL.. I was for sure that those pics belonged to the Ear. My bad Ear. Eq_Shadimar I will redirect the compliment to you. You have some nice looking subs 3 SVS's in the same corner of the room WOW! I bet it feels like you are getting your *&%$* kicked when listening to a action packed movie like U571 or Jurassic Park III. Ear not to worry, Im sure you have enough subs stacked up in that room of yours to create a small earthquake LOL..

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MM

[psyke]

Dear MM,

Can you tell me the setup you're having now(i mean the 2 subs setup), sounds interesting to me. I'm using the Klipsch Promedia line but after cranking them up, i found that it can't satisfy me so i decided to head for the Home Reference series...I love deep fat bass setup that can shake the room. But I don't know where to get started, like what gears to match in order to get the best from the system? I consider my newbie, so any guide from anyone would be greatly appreciated

[Jolly Roger]

psyke, you may want to think about a price range and talk to a local dealer. This guy probably has a good 3 grand in just those two subs.

For what its worth, my friend just upgraded from a Rel StormIII to a Rsw-15 and that Rsw made that Rel sound plain dinky. The Rel is only a 10" and he didnt give it enough time to break-in in its defense. But still the Rsw-15 really has some output. He has a very big room and it does a good job of shaking it. From the very first time he plugged it in we both said "Wow!". Its a big unit but does look good if you have the room. Since this is begining to sound like a review....

[psyke]

Hi Roger,

I get what you mean, but can you put away the 'price range' issue first, can you tell me what should I get if I just want to play CD(no movie) with a 2-channel system(bookshelf or floorstanding)? and with a sub of course.

BTW, what's the difference between all those AMP ?(AV AMP, PreAmp, Amplifier)?

Also, the difference between Bookshelf and Floorstanding ?

[Marathon Man]

Psyke,

Well as you can see by reading this BB that there are a lot of people that use very different products with different configurations, and thats because everyone has their own opinion (musical ear) of what is the best for them. Big sub, small sub, powered or passive is im sure the question you are asking yourself. The number one key to a sub's ability to fill up a room with bass and tap those low frequencies is the subs ability to move air. The more air the sub can move the louder and the deeper it will play. So with that said the number one consideration you need to look at is your room size, and room acoustics. The larger the room the louder the sub will need to play to fill up the room with bass (big box, large driver, lots of power). This includes small rooms that open into the rest of the house (which then is one big *** room). Don't be fooled by dealer specs. A subs sensitivity is usually measured at one freq at 1 meter, and not the full low frequency range ususally 20 Hz - 140 Hz at say 15 feet which is a normal distance from a main sub. (Remember everyone hears different, and 30 Hz may be deep enough for some but not close to deep enough for others.) The importance of this is simple. You usually don't sit 3 feet from your speakers (1 meter). However sitting 3 feet from a sub would really make you feel the sub's output and this is why some people add a second sub behind a couch or chair they like to sit in to give them that extra punch. This is very effective at lower volumes. You see the human ear's frequency response at high volumes is mostly flat, but at lower volumes the ears sensitivity to high and low frequencies is reduced so adding a sub very close to the listening area helps to cancel the ears frequency response anomalies and low volume listening is enjoyed with you still being able to feel the bass. You asked why two subs well that is most likely the most common reason. I use two subs because of the aforementioned reason and also to balance out the sound stage. My theater is fairly larger than it needs to be, and eventhough bass is non directional in a large room if the sub is in a far corner that side of the room is simply going to be louder. The RSW-12 as a second sub fills in the gaps rather nicely. As far as mathcing gear with a sub.. no such thing. thats the beauty of a powered sub, it stands on its own, unless you are using a passive sub that will i.e. have to be feed power from a power amp, and it should not be the amp section in your receiver. Use a dedicated amp for passive subs. The only other factor or variable to your subwoofer is the speakers you are playing around your sub. K-horns are very pronounced with high sensitivity (some call them efficient I call them pronounced) and you need a nice deep powerfull sub to keep up with them. If you are using promedia (pc audio/theater) the RSW may or may not be the best application for you. I really dont know that much about pc audio/theater. The Klipsch reference series and most of the subs talked about on this board are for true home theater application, and designed for use with home theater equipment. However the principle of a subwoofer is the same no matter what application. I hope that answered your question to me re: my sub configuration.

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MM

This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-08-2002 at 12:28 PM

[Marathon Man]

Psyke,

After reading your second thread Im left with the impression that you are trying to build not a theater but a 2 channel music system. I have a music room as well and 2 channel stereo music is not the same as multi channel home theater. Two very different formats with very different requirements. Normally bass information in music is not as deep as in DD 5.1 theater. Unless you listen to pipe organ music as do some folks on this board, and then yes you will need something that will accuratlly reproduce the material. I personally am a Jazz buff and usually a sub that will get down to 30 Hz will do me fine. Now on to the gear. I use an old, and I say old because most people on this board may not be familure with SAE, but I use a SAE 2 channel pre amp, SAE bridge, and a Nikko Alpha 440 power amp (220 per channel) with a pair of Old school JBL towers (dont need no sub ), but I use one anyway to augment the lower freq's, but the problem is that back then they did not make sub outs on pre amps, so I need a sub that I can put inline with my main speakers and the klipsh KSW line is what I use as a sub. Now back to todays technology. Im sorry to say for us audiophiles that still beleive in 2 channel stereo, there is not much to choose from, wait let me requalify that.. there is not AS much to choose from as with multi channel pieces these days. The good thing for us is that with technology today most multi channel equipment sounds just as good with the added bennifit of yes multi channel stereo. Formats like Pro Logic II that takes two channel information and simulates 5.1 sound (cant wait for the B&K Ref 30 upgrade). You may as well try the multi channel stuff. I would if I had to purchase a system for music all over again. I like the no nonsense, no gimik gear, like B&K, NAD, Integra, lexicon, Outlaw, and Meridian. The products listed here are worth a good listening to, and they cover all price ranges, and are very solid products and performance is top shelf. These systems will also give you good flexibilty to listen to 2 channel media or 5.1 theater. If I get into your question about the difference between pre amps, A.V. receivers.. we may be here a while, but basically a receiver is a component that has a tuner, pre amp, and a power amp bundled in one component. Power amp, pre amp, tuner are seperate components. The benefit of using seperates as opposed to all in one components is rather obvious. A component built to do one task can do it more efficiently than a component built to do multiple tasks. Its that simple. One other benefit to using seperates is that when one peice is obsolete usually the per amp you can upgrade that one peice. Good Power amps are here forever, tuners yeaahhhhh maybe you may want to upgrade them from time to time (every 20 years or so), but fm radio is dead with satalite being able to receive cd quality music. So that is the short answer. The most important thing with any audio equipment is that how it sounds to you. You are the ultimate reviewer, and judge because only you know what sounds good to you. Don't get caught up in the more expensive is always better, beacause it aint... plain and simple. The most important thing is room acoustics, and setup. Learn it, live it, hear it.

Hope this helps

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MM

[Big Ben]

MM, Very good analysis of your situation and maybe other HT/Music rooms on this forum. I have two RSW15's left and right of my RF7's, I just reinstalled my old KSW12 just behind the couch to fill in exactly what you were talking about.

My HT room is fairly large at 33' x 21 x 8'. While I know the KSW12 is no match for the RSW15's, it has its place.

BTW: Love my RSW15's

Ben

[TheEAR]

BigBen,

Two RSW-15's Great start,keep adding the subs.Way to go

I started with one sub and from then I pile them up.I am tempted to get the RSW12 and 15.But have to get the SVS SS first.So much bass so little time

TheEAR(s) Now theears