GWMoody Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 I have an ancient fully integrated Nakamichi 2 channel system with Klipsch Horns. I also have a completely separate new 65" HDTV, D-VHS tape and DVD. I intend to create a new all-singing all-dancing audio and home theater system from these components. I have selected either the Denon 5803 (a suped up 5800 soon to be released) or the Pioneer VSX-49TX receiver, to be the engine for the new system with Klipsch Reference series speakers (RC-7, RS-7). (My room is 50' by 20'). That's the easy part. The difficult part is that my wife wants the Horns gone and no more floor speakers (apart from sub-woofer(s)). Therefore, I have had to pick the RC-7 for the center and RS-7 for all other positions, including the front L/R positions, because in-wall speakers do not have enough power. Will the RS-7 work for the center position? and if not what alternative do I have given the ban on the use of the floor space? My second question is: does anyone have an opinion or experience with a second sub-woofer for a system like this and if so can or should this be powered with a parallel connection to the surround back speakers (this would save me running additional wires from the receiver to the back of the room). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR5000 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 I don't think the RS-7's will work very well as front left/right speakers... I have a pair of RS-3's and used them in that capacity for a few days, waiting for the rest of my reference speakers to be delivered. They didn't sound that great... I think the diffuse effect works well in the back or on the sides, but not very well in the front. Of course this is just my opinion. You may want to get a loaner pair and listen for yourself. You also should look at the RB-5's. Greg ------------------ Gregory E. Rose gregrose@nualumni.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 If you want good music you need a good pair of main speakers. The RB-5s would be far more acceptable than the surrounds. However, considering the quality and price of the receiver you are considering - anything short of full size main speakers does not make any sense to me. Multiple subs work well but would be better connected to the LFE output of your receiver. Your really going to miss those Khorns for music. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-03-2002 at 06:38 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 I'm with you Soundog! Making a silk musical purse from a sow's "rear" is way beyond my talent set! The era of 5.1 HT and multi-channel music is predicated on 5 full-range speakers being fed discrete sounds for specific locations... not five ambient sound radiators in search of audio focus. I, too, have a 65" $5k plus RPHD TV and I know how bad the sound beneath that beautiful picture can be. I give my theater guests a dose of it from time-to-time when they make disparaging remarks about the cost of Klipsch. It doesn't take long for them to get the idea that the cost in pleasure loss (sans Klipsch) is too much for them to bear. And at least you haven't been knocked off your sub standard! That being said... and togetherness being worth more than an aural ecstasy... what's a Klipsch-head to do? The answer may lay in a comment BobG shared with me before the RF7 line reached the stores. If you can preserve marital peace with this compromise you will be far ahead... BobG's plan... buy three RC-7's and mount two vertically and one atop the RPTV. The size and sound will be smaller than the more robust RF-7's... but the accuracy together with the square horns in the RC-7 will help make the singing and dancing more palatable for all concerned. In fact, in a similar situation, a person who asked me for advice put in five RC-7's and he and his wife lived happily ever after... or so I have been told. Think of it as a new Klipsch beginning... rather than an old Klipsch end. Speaking of which... are those big, old, nasty Khorns available for sale? HornEd PS: Maybe if your wife compares what you are willing to do with what I have done... she will think you are a really great guy! ------------------ HORNED'S EIGHT THEATRICAL LEGENDS, FIVE+ MUSICAL HERITAGES & A ROADIE... SETTING THE "THEATER OF THE MIND" STAGE... KLF 30's: Left Main, Center Main, Right Main KLF C7's: L & R Front Effects on 5' sand filled columns KLF 30's: Left Surround, Rear Effects, Right Surround Twin SVS CS-Ultra SubTower, Samson Megawatt Amp KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS: Bass friendly, oversized, glove-leather LazyBoy Recliners Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808 CHANNELING THE MUSIC EXPERIENCE FROM 2 TO 6! '97 Klipschorn - Mains, '99 Klipsch Belle - Center '83 Cornwall - Surrounds, '95 Academy - Rear Effects Walnut w/ Cane Grilles. Final Amps, etc. undetermined THE MOVEABLE (EAR) FEAST... Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome... an acoustics challenge vandalized... but soon to be "On the Road Again!" Willie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 If I had K-horns, no woman would convince me to move them from the two most glorious corners in my house... Give 'er hell, GW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWMoody Posted March 4, 2002 Author Share Posted March 4, 2002 Thanks for your valuable inputs guys. As a result of this we have picked up a pair of RF-7's and RF-3 II's to compare to the Horns and will let you know how we get on. The first problem we have noted, however, is that the Rf-7's need to be 2' to 3' away from the walls for optimum sound. This doesn't work well for fornt L/R speakers unless one's TV also sits 2' to 3' out from the wall. How have others overcome this or should I consider other speakers? Also how important is this separation in your experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Clearly, the RF-7's are the Crown Jewels of the Reference line... but they do need the space to do their thing. The reason I mentioned the RC-7's above was your concern for smaller, snug fitting speakers as a more important criteria than the sound they make. A good sub will help make up the size defficiency in the lower ranges. But, let's face it, if sound were the first priorty... properly configured K-horns would not be taking their leave... and an RC-7 is about the most compact close-to-the-wall quality solution that that I know of. And they can be placed horizontally or vertically as needed. May good things re-evolve in your audio life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWMoody Posted March 4, 2002 Author Share Posted March 4, 2002 Thank you again HornEd, but according to the spec sheets, the RC-7 also has "bass reflex via dual rear mounted ports" and presumably needs its space as well do you think? The RC-3 II's, however, have a sealed enclosure but is going to the 3's to big a price to pay in terms of overall fidelity? Per your earlier request, if this works out the horns will be for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Yes, G.W., the RC-7 is ported rather than sealed... but I think you will find that the internal volume of the speaker does not require nearly as much distance to the wall... so that having the front of the speaker even with the front of the TV is likely to be sufficient... thereby conserving valuable floor space for your dancing and singing pleasure. As for going further down the Reference scale... that may well be your best bet... but that is a decision for your ears and those of your lady. Of course, my preference is to have as many speakers identical as possible for HT or multi-channel speakers. Even lesser quality speakers tend to sound better when they are a matched set, IMHO. It's time to put on your thinking cap and turn up your ears... HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWMoody Posted March 6, 2002 Author Share Posted March 6, 2002 Following the good advice received here, particularly from HornEd, we have concluded that the job cannot be done without some floor speakers. The Khorns have to go because they simply do not physically fit any possible HT configuration available to us. We evaluated the RF-7 and the RF-3 II for the front positions but it was no contest. We are going with the RF-7 (2), RC-7 and RS-7 (4). Our marriage has also been preserved, for now! We have a Definitive Technology ProSub 200n. Is this an acceptable match for the above or should we look at the RSW-12 or RSW-15. These appear to be extremely powerful and equally expensive? Does one need that much power? The 200n is a paltry 250 watts. Is the RSW-10 the same "Reference" quality? Some suggest two subs. How could one possibly need two of those? Could an RSW-12 or 15 work with the 200n? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyleS Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 Hey, you have another option, you should consider. If you can find the Klipsch THX KT-LCR speakers used, they are sealed units designed to mount vertically. (Shelf, or stands, or even sitting on top of the klipschhorns) They have 2 6.5 " midbass drivers and a tractrix tweeter. I think that they would work fairly well with rs-7 surrounds, though they originally came paired with KT-DS dipole surrounds. I'm currently using the KT-LCR's as center and surround speakers with my La Scala mains, and while not an exact match they provide a very good sound field for movies, and multi-channel music. see klipsch classic products page for a more detailed description of their specs. Lyle. PS> I have my center channel speaker layed on it's side on top of the RPTV for general listening, and then when I want to focus on a specific movie, I just stand it up! ------------------ Gear: Klipsch La Scala ;THX home cinema: KT-LCR, KT-SW15 Onkyo Integra DTR-7 THX Denon POA-2800 Amplifier Panasonic RP91 DVD NAD 7140 Stereo receiver (Pre Only with Denon Amp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 That thinking cap first, ears second sequence has led a lot of folks to good Klipsch decisions. I am glad it got the green light hopping into the audio aspects of your wedded bliss! I don't think the KSW-10 would be a satisfying choice with the speed and accuracy of your upscale Reference System. My advice would be to give your ears a chance to acclimate themselves to the wonderful Reference sound before you add a new dimension of bass. The reason is that you will be happier in the long run to move the speakers a smidgeon this way and that until you get just the right sound focus on your sweet spot... and a new sub complicates the process unduly. Also, picking a sub is more dependant on knowing your room size, open areas, reflectivity, etc. With such a fine speaker set... you deserve the deep down satisfaction of a sub that can keep up! Always glad to see a "happily ever after" light at the end of an audio tunnel. HornEd This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-06-2002 at 12:57 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 GWMoody, Great choice,the RF-7's clean house.From detail to efortless power the RF-7's are crown jewels in the R lineup. I use RF-7's,RC-7 and RF-5's as rears.The sound is quite good thank you.You should be A Ok with your choices. Now for the subwoofer part... Any sub from Klipsch's KSW lineup is NOT a good choice. The KSW subs are weak from 35Hz down,their quality is NOT up to Klipsch Reference standards.And all around output is far from what is should be. A better choice would be AT LEAST the RSW12 or a RSW15. If you want a small(size)sub with output and true sub bass power the Sunfire Signature is the way to go.No other sub in its size outperforms it.The Signature had huge output at 30Hz and still strong at 16Hz. The Signature beats many much larger subs in output and low freq. bottom of the barrel bass. If you can fit BIG oil barrels then the SVS Ultra is a great choice.It has both BIG output across the whole sub sonic spectrum and will dig deep below 16Hz!No jokes Now depends how much you can spend on a good sub,just dont buy cheapie WANNABE SUBS,your RF-7's have more sub bass then many so called subs. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWMoody Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 I have not seen any technical, sales or pricing information on the SVS Ultra. Where can I find that? How does the SVS Ultra compare to the RSW-15? On paper the RSW-15 looks like a lot more sub than the Ultra. It would probably be best to try to evaluate both at home before I buy. First I need to get the system set up - per HornEd. But even before that I am waiting for the release of the Denon 5803 (It's the only one that may be upwards compatible with 1394). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibel man Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Check out www.svsubwoofers.com and ask them as many questions as you can. They are very helpful. Lots of deep tight bang for the buck. Good luck and enjoy! JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 The Rsw-15 is a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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