mness4 Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 Well, I think it's a full fledged addiction at this point. I agreed to buy the Chorus IIs from the guy I mentioned who really didn't want to sell them. He called and said he would sell them one way or another, so I might as well take the plunge...again. They're beautifully restored oak (he's into restoration) for $500. So let's recap my activity since last Wednesday: oak Quartet and Chorus I ($600 total), black Chorus II ($550), and oak Chorus II ($500)...and I still have my walnut KG4s. Still married though. Anyone need any speakers?! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Good Lord Mike! You've got your surround setup all ready!! So, here's the new setup: 1) Chorus II fronts, Chorus II side surrounds, Chorus I rear surrounds, sell the KG4s and Quartets and get an Academy center. OR 2) Chorus II fronts, Quartet sides, Chorus I rears, use one Chorus II for a center speaker, sell the other Chorus II and your KG4s. I'd be inclined towards #2 myself, mainly because a Chorus II center speaker will blow an Academy out of the water. Maybe we can work out a deal where I can take a speaker or two off your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 You're gonna get me in trouble...but I like where you're going with that. I saw a gorgeous set of Chorus IIs today. The guy painstakingly restored the oak. They looked better than new. He demo'd them using a 12wpc tube amp. They sounded like velvet. But I did not leave with them. To make a long story short, he needs the money but loves the speakers. He'd sell them in a few days if a money issue doesn't resolve itself. I don't have the heart to do it though. I rather lend him the money and see him keep the speakers than be the one to benefit from that situation. So tomorrow I revisit a pair of black Chorus IIs that I saw for the first time last Sunday. I will probably be coming home with those. So wife permitting, the 7.1 grand plan is still a possibility. So is my sleeping on the couch for a while! mness4, Realize this, the Quartets, Forte II's and Chorus II's MUST be placed in the corners at a 45 degree toe in for propper sound, while your Chorus I's can be placed either in the corner (prefered) or on a flat wall. In addition, the Quartets, Forte II's, and Chorus II's MUST be puled out from the corner. You need to play with the distance to get it absolutely correct, but this makes a MAJOR difference in Bass output, with that in mind, a La Scala at a 45 degree angle pused back to the wall, really wont take up any more space then a Chorus II once you pull that Chorus II out of the corner enough to get optimum sound out of it. Something you should seriously considder.... Roger I have found that my Forte IIs sound better with a very small toe in. To my ears 45 degrees was way to much. Of course the best advice is try and try again and what sounds good to your ears is whats right! My comment about the 45 degree toe in is in an ideal world!! In the ideal setting, the best toe in would be be a perfect 45 degree angle and the listening possition would be just behind the point of the center axis of the speakers convergence. This would be the way to set up the room arround the speakers, of course any square room is a nightmare in accoustics. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Well, I think it's a full fledged addiction at this point. I agreed to buy the Chorus IIs from the guy I mentioned who really didn't want to sell them. He called and said he would sell them one way or another, so I might as well take the plunge...again. They're beautifully restored oak (he's into restoration) for $500. So let's recap my activity since last Wednesday: oak Quartet and Chorus I ($600 total), black Chorus II ($550), and oak Chorus II ($500)...and I still have my walnut KG4s. Still married though. Anyone need any speakers?! Mike Mike, I will chime in on your amp sellections. Nakamichi amps from very late 1980s to early 1990s are some of the best sounding solid stae you will ever hear with Klipsch. I own four Klipsch PA-7 stereo amps at 200 watts per channel RMS times 8, I only need 7 channel. The Klipsch PA-5 is 100 watts per channel times two, the PA-5II is 150 watts per channel stereo, the PA-7 is 200 watts per channel stereo, the PA-7II is 225 watts RMS stereo. I would recomend the PA-5II or the PA-7 if your pockets are deep enough. The PA-5II can be had for about $550, the PA-7 can be had for arround $750. To give you an idea, that PA-7 was $2,300 new in 1989, that would be comparable to at least a $4,000 amp now. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mness4 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thanks, Roger. Would either or both of these be beefy enough to drive my 7.1 system? I'm not sure how to tell if an amp can handle bridging multiple channels. At the very least, I'd want to feed my center and fronts...maybe the sub woofer too. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mness4 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Yeah, I think I'm done fore a while...at least for speakers. I just picked up the last pair. I realized I mistyped before. This last pair are Forte II. I like your option 2, except maybe one of the Forte IIs as the center. I hope to finish the drywall soon so I can try out various combos. I think we can certainly work out a deal if you're in the market. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mness4 Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Thanks, Roger. Would either or both of these be beefy enough to drive my 7.1 system? I'm not sure how to tell if an amp can handle bridging multiple channels. At the very least, I'd want to feed my center and fronts...maybe the sub woofer too. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thanks, Roger. Would either or both of these be beefy enough to drive my 7.1 system? I'm not sure how to tell if an amp can handle bridging multiple channels. At the very least, I'd want to feed my center and fronts...maybe the sub woofer too. Thanks, Mike Mike, These are stereo, non bidgable amps, you will need 4 of either amp you choose to drive 7 channels, plus you would have another channel left over. This is why I have 4 of them. These amps have lots of headroom, and would drive your speakers with athority. These are also "load stable" amplifiers, meaning that if they put out 200 watts per channel, they still put out 200 watts per channel on a 4 ohm, or a 2 ohm load. Many amplifiers will esentially double the wattage output when you half the load, or ohmage rating. This is especially a problem when driving some of the reference line as their load ratings change. I'm in texas working, and don't have regular internet access, so sorry for taking so long for a reply. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mness4 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Roger, Thanks for the response...no problem on the delay. I'm looking at a used pa-7. I believe the guy powered a pair of speakers from each channel, so I assumed I could connect my Chorus II fronts to one channel and my Forte II center (and maybe sub) to the other. If they're 8 ohm speakers then wouldn't the amp see 4 ohm net and be able to drive them? Or am I thinking about this incorrectly? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Mike - You'll need a separate channel for each speaker, or you will not have any audio separation (stereo or surround sound). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Roger, Thanks for the response...no problem on the delay. I'm looking at a used pa-7. I believe the guy powered a pair of speakers from each channel, so I assumed I could connect my Chorus II fronts to one channel and my Forte II center (and maybe sub) to the other. If they're 8 ohm speakers then wouldn't the amp see 4 ohm net and be able to drive them? Or am I thinking about this incorrectly? Thanks, Mike Mike, The Nakamichi is stable down to 1 or two ohms, so you could run in stereo mode only, but you would need more amps or a multichannel amp for surround sound. If you are ok with running stereo only until you can buy additional amps, the way to see stereo would be to run the front right and front left pre amp outputs into the right and left inputs of the Nakamichi, then you would run your front right Chorus II and your right rear Forte II on the amplifiers right channel speaker output, additionally, you would run your left front Chorus II and your left rear Forte II to the amps left channel speaker output. You would wire the Forte IIs in a paralel circuit to the Chorus II on the same channel and the same on the oposite channel. The amp will see 4 ohms which it is totally capable of handling, this will give you 4 channel stereo, but you wont be able to adjust front to rear volume until you buy an additional amp. Also, because this is a load stable amp, you will have a total of 200 watts per cannel to feed both speakers on the right, and another 200 watts for both speaker on the left, or 100 watts RMS available for each speaker, where as a non load balanced amp of 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms would push 400 watts per channel at 4 ohms or still have 200 watts RMS for each speaker. There are cheaper ways to get the desired result, but these Nakamichis are excellent amps. If you buy that one on ebay, let me know!! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mness4 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Dougdrake... Yeah, that makes perfect sense...not sure what (or if) I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mness4 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Roger, I'm going to have to think about your response a bit before I follow completely. My only audio experience has been stereo and 5.1 surround using a 5.1 avr. I will be using a 7.1 avr, but I'm hearing that the sound quality would be improved significantly with additional amplification. I've also heard that the surround speakers probably don't need anything other than the avr, since the fronts and center put out most of the sound (not sure about the rears by comparison.) How would you recommend I supplement my avr in this case? Which channels should I consider (rears and sub as well???) I would like to use the Naks and still might, but you mention cheaper ways. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Something like the three channel Emotiva XPA-3 would be an amp to consider. http://emotiva.com/xpa3.shtm The seven channel XPA-7 is only $100 more than the XPA-3. You probably would be fine running the front three from the XPA-3 and the rest of the speakers off your receiver. What kind of sub do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mness4 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 My sub is a KSW-12 left over from my old quintet 5.1 system. It's better than nothing and I don't have a new one in my budget in the near term. I do expect to get a different one at some point I suppose, but I don't know what would match my setup. I looked at the Emotiva link. Looks interesting. Is there a Nak pa-7 era three-channel version that I could consider as well? I've been wondering though if there might be a downside to going with a 20 year-old amp. The capacitors don't last forever. Is this a legitimate concern with the Naks (or others)? How would you rate the Emotiva against a similarly spec'd Nak? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 My sub is a KSW-12 left over from my old quintet 5.1 system. It's better than nothing and I don't have a new one in my budget in the near term. I do expect to get a different one at some point I suppose, but I don't know what would match my setup. I looked at the Emotiva link. Looks interesting. Is there a Nak pa-7 era three-channel version that I could consider as well? I've been wondering though if there might be a downside to going with a 20 year-old amp. The capacitors don't last forever. Is this a legitimate concern with the Naks (or others)? How would you rate the Emotiva against a similarly spec'd Nak? Mike Mike, There was a Nakamichi PA-1 that is a 5 channel surround amp from the same era, but it is only 100 watts per channel. As far as the emotiva Nakamichi is concerned, a 3 channel could be a fine place for you to start. It all depends on what you want, new, or better build quality. You have a valid point on your capactor question As the capacitors start to go bad, you can hear a hum or background static at very low volumes such as in between tracks, or with the volume all the way off. With that said, capacitors do go bad, and when they do, the Amplifier will start to put out DC voltage; this blows speakers. With the afore mentioned, I will state that I had a 300 watt Adcom GFA-565 mono block amplifier that fried two La Scala woofers from the capacitors going bad. I will also state that Adcoms, especially the GFA-565s have a reputation for this. I will also state that I bought a pair of Klipsch Quartets for $1100 and a Nakamichi TA-4A for $1250 brand new in 1989 when I was a kid and sold them to my sister several years back, and the capacitors have never needed replacing, nor have any of the capacitors in any of my PA-7 amplifiers ever been replaced. Further still, the Nakamichi PA-7 amps have a DC protection circuit that automatically shuts the amp off if it ever puts out a DC circuit. I have never seen this circuit function, but it is stated in the literature. There is no gaurantee, especially with used equipement that my caps couldn't go bad tomorow. I liken it to if I build up an orriginal hemi, and you build up a modern Mopar, If yours blows up you have a pile of junk, but if mine blows up, I still have a piece that someone will fix. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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