SchmittTrigger Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 i am planning on getting a pair of KP-3002 and want to mount them on a Church ceiling, to make the installation more visually appealing, I want to mount them side ways, therefore I want to reorient the tweeter side ways to maintain the same orientation as the box. I have two choices, make a new baffle and put it on top of the old baffle or build a new cabinet. Either way, the new reworked speakers will not have carpet on them, I will paint the cabinets white to match the ceiling of the sanctuary. I am looking for tips, I have never done anything like this before and I would like to save time,money and limb if possible. DrWho has been a great help so far. http://files.me.com/ronaldrousseau/6y4dk1 I made a scaled drawing to see if it would all fit side ways, here it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi SchmittTrigger, CAUTION!! THE 3002 WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR FLYING FROM THE CEILING. [:S] The 3002 is a great speaker (I own three pair), but the carpeted cabinet was designed for portable PA and is made from OSB without the necessary internal bracing to make it safe to fly from the ceiling. If, for some reason, the cabinet joints fail and pieces fall, folks underneath may be injured . . . .or worse. You can fabricate a new cabinet, but you really should include the internal metal-angle bracing hardware. I will strongly suggest you consider talking to Roy about ordering a pair of Ki-362 speakers that are designed for hanging. An additional benefit of the Ki-362 is the rotatable motor board for squawker and tweeter that will allow you to achieve the proper aiming for the space. The crossover components in the Ki-362 are of higher quality than the KP series. You don't want to climb up high and remove a heavy woofer without dropping it to replace a failed crossover component. I have hung the Ki-362s from the ceiling of a chapel with the appropriate flying hardware and they sound great. The few bucks you may save are not worth endangering the parishoners. http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/ki-362-overview/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchmittTrigger Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 Wow, this is my first post and I have gotten some great information so far, I did not consider the construction of the box, this is great advice, I am going to take it. As fas as the KI-362, this is way out of my price range, I think that I need to find something else that can be gotten in the $500.00 range or re-fabricate the KP-3002 with the proper bracing, I don't see that costing more than $100.00. Also I had contemplated bracing the KP-3002 on the outside with an L shaped metal frame so that the speaker is resting on the frame, then we would put the hanging hardware on the frame and not directly on the speaker, would that work? Do you have any other recommendations for speakers? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Good Morning, SchmittTrigger!! In my haste to answer your question last night, I neglected to welcome you to the forum, so, WELCOME!! Please tell us about the size of the room, heighth of the ceiling, and intended use of the speakers, i.e., voice-only, rock-type contempory, etc. Anything you do to the KP-3002 for framing or structural support will probably help. I would just be concerned about everyone's safety and the potential liability in the event of an unfortunate accident. While we may brace the cabinet with metal L-brackets or frames, if something does happen, the claim could be made that none of the fabricators were professional engineers and, therefore, unqualified to do the modification. I serve on the finance (and risk management) committee at my church where, unfortunately, we're having to deal with these types of issues. We went through the same excercise at our church camp when we designed the system for the new chapel. We had the KP-3002, but decided because of the safety issue and the "aimability" of the hf section of the 362, that the difference in price was cheap insurance against risk, plus, we got a better system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I echo Mr. Hendrix's thoughts and welcome you to the Pro Forums. Running threaded rod through the cabinet to a wide angle iron on the bottom side or securing the speaker to a platform load rated at 10x the weight of the speaker might be appropriate for flying loudspeakers in some settings. However extreme caution must be used when flying over an audience. Another thing to consider is not just the attachment to the loudspeaker, but the load bearing capacity of the structural part of the building you are attaching to and all associated hardware. KI362 are braced for flying by the use of high quality steel angles mounted inside the cabinet so as to secure the sides of the cabinet to the top. All sides are braced in this manner and 3/8 threaded openings are given for appropriate flyware. If the 3002 is a WWR product, it may be made of OSB board instead of the more secure 9 ply void-free birch ply used in the KI362 series, this would greatly affect cabinet integrity in any flying or mounted position. WOOD SCREWS OR EYE BOLTS ARE NOT SUFFICIENT. NO KLIPSCH LOUDSPEAKER SHOULD BE SUSPENDED BY IT"S HANDLES EITHER. Due to the risk of injury or DEATH, please take all necessary precautions, including consulting a local engineer/installer about the mechanics of installing loudspeakers in your facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchmittTrigger Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 The sanctuary is small, it's a bout 75ft x 40ft x 30ft, I believe that I will be able to come up with an overly secure method of hanging the speaker, I am an overly cautious person when it comes to these things, we will support the cabinet and anchor it in four places with a support system that rated 20x times the load and then put a safety line, I will also establish a maintenance schedule to inspect it periodically to make sure that the design is sound. Because of the size of the sanctuary and our budget the 362 would be way too much, This project has been a killer because I have had to learn so much. it's good in that sense, but there is allot of thinking going on before the actual install. It's great to have this forum. The system has to be flexible, to do primarily voice, support our worship team and video projection and previously recorded material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchmittTrigger Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Double post, that was edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Can the 362 still be bought brand new from Klipsch? You know about how much they cost, Bill? Btw, I work with Schmitt Trigger...the mounting method he's thinking of seems like it's gonna be much safer than pole mounting the cabs. I did install work for a year, even around Chicago so I'm familiar with all of the crazy codes provided they haven't changed. There are ways to safely fly a speaker that wasn't intended for flying - it's just more expensive and needs bigger mounting hardware. Basically, instead of the mounting braces inside, they'll end up on the outside...and no reliance on cabinet integrity is required (it's essentially no different than it resting on an elevated floor) I think ST plans on moving the ports to be above the HF section to make the cabinet less wide. You guys think that might introduce any modulation of the highs with excessive port velocity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 There are ways to safely fly a speaker that wasn't intended for flying - it's just more expensive and needs bigger mounting hardware. Basically, instead of the mounting braces inside, they'll end up on the outside...and no reliance on cabinet integrity is required YES, that's what I was getting at. Just make sure that it's attached to something stable that can withstand the load. you have email on this Doc M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hey, Doc, glad you're on the job. As I recall, the new 362s are about $1400 each. There was a guy in Phoenix that had a pair of Ki-362 and one KP-682 for $1400, all three pieces, NIB, on craigslist. I may still have his info if you want to try him. Let me know . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchmittTrigger Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 I had done some research on the web on the KI-362's, I taught they were allot more expensive than that glad to see that this is not the case, but they still would not match te estetics that we are trying to create. I should be able to audition one of the KP-3002's tomorow, I iwll let you know how it goes. Thanks for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchmittTrigger Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 FYI, I gave up in trying to re-orrientate the tweeter in the KP-3002, just too much work, it took me about 6 weeks just to hang the speaker. I took some pictures of it. We still need to "Pretty it up" but it's sounds great, it is incredible, the before and after, lots of thanks to Dr.Who for recommending the speakers, everyone at church that knew what the old system sounded like as so impressed. I did get a table saw, that I plan on making a few of my own speaker cabinets this year more on that later. http://www.cog7cicero.org/churchsound/Church_Sound/Blog/Blog.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 If I understand your web posting correctly, you've suspended these loudspeakers by a frame and chains (so far so good) attached to WOOD SCREW EYEBOLTS screwed in to wood framing members? That is possibly a very dangerous practice. You're depending on those screw threads holding in wood. That's not much holding power! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace168516 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Just thought I would throw this out there...even though it sound like you have a working plan. I have noticed a CL ad for some KI-362/KI-215 combos in the Marion IN area. 2 Bad drivers in one of the 4 KI-362s and a pair of bad crossovers in 2 of the four. However, the guy has been dropping his price every few days, he has it in like 8 CL ads all over the midwest and is down to like 1099 OBO...sound good for 4 KI-362s and 2 KI-215s. I am sure the parts are still available and would be a quick fix. Just a heads up, not affiliated in any way. http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/msg/1605125893.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Got em, needs some fixing up, but I'm just the guy for the job! These will be for sale soon. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrpwr Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Wow, I was going to meet Jeff Lowe in Champaign, IL on the 23rd after i got off shift for the exchange, I hope he gave you the same price $900 Here was his e-mail - J. Lowe to me show details 4:34 PM (3 hours ago) Hey Steve, sorry but a local guy offered me what I was asking and picked up these speakers. Man I found that one more of the crossovers was in need of service.. or replaced. Best of luck! Jeff Reply Forward When it comes to the green, Some people's word is not worth a @%#* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace168516 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Michael...congrats...you are just the guys to do it too. How is the barn/shop/H.O.K. however you call it coming along? Any major updates since your paint choice? Sounds like it is probably stacked with a bunch of sweet NEW Klipsch Pro in need of some TLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 You don't hate me do you Steve? Seller Jeff mentioned some guy in Chicago, but I think I'd already talked to him the first time and was on the fence. That must have been why he took your interest seriously. He should have mentioned that to you and not made a firm committment. I did offer to come to Marion to fetch them and think he was hurting for money and space pretty bad as they're moving very soon. Michael Yeah the shop is pretty busy these days and I LOVE the hydronic heat that Greg928S helped me design. I keep it 55 in there, crank on the Kerosene when I go out for a work day. Will be out there today cranking the jams and fixin' stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrpwr Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Mike, I talked to this guy 3 1/2 weeks ago ! According to your post which is now deleted , You were gone for the weekend and when you saw ACE168516 posted the ad info you were surprised and could not find the CL ad .It was deleted . So what am i to think. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 The linked ad and that from several other cities had been deleted from CL when I got to these posts (hence my 'crud I missed it post') . I did take the time to check numerous cities in Indiana on CL and found one of the ads still live. So I called the number. I talked to him, made arrangements to see them, got up there and negotiated a price. Bought an amp and rack while I was there. I don't know what to think either, when I called him the second time (after thinking it over a bit) he said he said that there was a guy near Chicago who was also interested. You never know about sellers, that could have been a ploy to get me to push the button. You know me, I'd never knowingly go behind the back of a brother here on the Forum. Had I know that someone here was in real negotiation for them I'd have gladly stepped aside. I've done that before. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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