my ProMedia amp died -- seems to be a common problem with an unnecessarily expensive solution. please help!

[indiecognition]

Overnight my ProMedia Ultra 5.1 system died. I didn't change the wiring, touch the volume, or use the computer it's attached to. Just suddenly dead. Silent.

I googled seeing if there was a fix, and apparently it's fairly widespread for Klipsch ProMedia amps to crap out due to design issues related to heat dissipation, chip soldering, etc. This is a well-known issue and instead of attempting to do the right thing to stand by their products to ensure that they work the way they're intended, Klipsch offers overpriced repairs to fix the parts. But the parts were never working properly, or of adequate quality, from the get go..

[Bill H.]

I think you have probably had this Unit for some time. Production stopped in 2003, Thus it is out of Warranty. Just contact Klipsch Customer Service and see if they can help.

Coming on the Form, and blasting like this, does no one any good and is not the way things are done on this fourm.

Yes there were issues with the Amp, but they overall were approximately only 1% of all Promedia sales over the life span of the Units History.

Again, just contact Klipsch Customer Support.

You might also try contacting a Form Member Mister-Clean who sells parts and may be able to guide you to a place to get your Unit Fixed...............

[indiecognition]

I had contacted them, and received no response. Logitech does not have this issue. And 1% is a huge margin of error for manufacturing -- companies today aim that for all the products made, everything within six standard deviations of the norm should be functional, and only extreme outliers (screwups) should be made. That is far less than 1% -- it's 0.00034%. (Look up the six-sigma standards -- the concept and goal is widespread in many industries. Further, you sound like a company rep, and I don't know where that 1% came from. I'd venture to say that over a reasonable timespan for ownership, far more units have failed but were never reported. And most states have consumer protection such that, even when there is no warranty coverage, a product or service must turn out to be delivered as represented before the sale. For a "Premium" product, 1% failure rate is actually incredibly high, and signifies that the product is in fact not designed to remain in working condition. Further, at normal volume, shielded and separated from EM interference, and without any sudden power spikes or adjustments, soundsystems should not have a shelf life. I bought the Klipsch system for a reason -- its purportedly superior quality vs. Logitech -- and Klipsch has proven not to back up their products in a way that meets such standards.

The bottom line is that this issue is due to a bad part. It's something Klipsch never chose to repair, and continued to produce and sell these speaker systems after discovering the issue. Stories from other Klipsch customers prove that instead of attempting to repair or replace ProMedia systems for free or at cost, Klipsch has taken advantage of their faulty product to further gouge their customers for overpriced repairs -- $120 and up for work as small as jiggling or resoldering a chip, or replacing a fuse. In the case of the revenues from the ProMedia speakers in question, either the company or the product is indeed at fault.

Good products are sold fairly and live up to the claims made by their purveyors. If the ProMedia line was truly built to standard, and not so ubiquitously defective, you would not find this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1B3GGIC_en___US356&q=klipsch+promedia+amp+faulty&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Seriously, don't tell me the way things are done on a forum -- if Klipsch wants a community, they need to stand buy their products and customers. If they help fix the problem, it'll be nipped in the bud.

[Bill H.]

1. Not a company rep, but have been on this Forum for over 10 years.

2. Meant to type Less than <1% ............from eariler discussions on this subject.............

3. If you want or like another brand of speaker.............than buy it, but Fourm members don't come on here and Stir up trouble, we try to help other members out.

4. As I stated eariler, either contact Klipsch customer support, or ask a Constructive Question...........or since you seem to understand the problem, Fix it and let us know How you did it...........so Others can reap the benefits...........

[Mister_Clean]

Yes, that is what we need more than anything on here. We get alot of people asking questions but not a whole lot of people providing answers. We are all here to try to help each other out when people have similar problems, and it isn't just Klipsch that deals with this, Dig deep into companies like Bose, Creative, Logitech and you will see alot of angry customers there as well, the fact of the matter is, when these systems are functioning correctly, they "Klipsch" are better than the competition (in my opinion) as far as providing a great sounding product at a reasonable price.

[sunburnwilly]

Welcome to the forum Evan

[indiecognition]

thanks.

And to everyone else, I'm not saying Klipsch is a bad company. I wouldn't care about the speakers so much if I didn't love them. But I take very good care of my electronics, and had the sub/amp in a cool place where I never bumped or jarred it. So I just want to know that assuming it is one of these common issues, I can get it working again in a reasonably fast, fair way. Honestly, I would pay cost for the parts to fix it myself...or for a whole replacement amp board. But the system retailed for $400, and I just worry about having to pay half that just to keep the system working after a relatively common and simple problem. I don't want to cause problems for the company, or be incredibly negative with other Klipsch fans. But I think that showing some passion about the issue may help get the attention for Klipsch to be a little bit more proactive or flexible in taking care of it for me and other customers.

It'd be nice if these common, and dissappointing, issues would be covered for free...but I'd be satisfied as long as Klipsch is reasonable with the pricing for parts, service, and/or shipping. It's just that there are lots of stories on the web of that happening. And I think the slight ding in long-term profits from repairing one system would repay itself severalfold when customers thrilled with the product AND the service remain loyal to Klipsch and buy new products in the future. People who have old products that have good reliability and service will pay more to upgrade to a better system of the same brand, whereas people who are asked to spend a lot to keep the old system working will be less likely to get some thing of that brand in the future. And this doesn't have to be done at a financial loss -- it should just be done in a way that is fair for the company and the customer, such as providing services at cost instead of being opportunistic about making money from issues rather than solutions.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Klipsch about what I/they can do. In the meantime, I've already opened up the box and gently plied the BASH chips to see if there was an issue with the contact...I also looked around for loose or burned out looking chips, solder connections, etc. I had no luck with that. But as long as this gets resolved in a decently reasonable way, I'll post that too...and continue to spread good word-of-mouth about Klipsch. I posted this to help get the attention to resolve the issue, not to trash the company.

[Bill H.]

Found this on another site, as someone who can Fixed the Amps...............(No affiliation)............

http://myworld.ebay.com/elliot-tronics/

[Bill H.]

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1268387

[finbarqs]

Mine died in september, and I think I singled it out to the H2 BASH HC1011 chip, but then again, people said they can wiggle it, and the buzzing/pitch noise would change. Not for me. The sound is the same no matter what I do. I figured it's the H2 chip because I unplugged the side that the H1 was on, and I get a ticking sound when both of them are not plugged in. (Mind you the ticking sound is faint). However, when plugging in one side, (H2 side) I get the buzzing/high pitch noise that I cannot do anything about, even wiggling the chip around. Perhaps maybe my chips are okay, and that there's something else that's wrong?

I've called infinity, and it's gonna cost me around $200 to repair, which is the cost of one set on ebay. Worse case scenario, I'll purchase a new sub and a receiver, and throw everything else away since my speakers are mounted on my walls already, and the speakers are fine.

[cybercop0716]

My amp went bad in my Pro Media 5.1 Ultra, sent the amp and control pod in to Klipsch for repair (CC charged $125). Received the new amp a week later, hey wheres my control unit??? Called Klipsch and of course they said they had no record of me sending my control pod in. Basically they gave me a free amp minus the control pod.

BTW, Klipsch customer support all the way up to the general manager of parts was horrible, no customer support whats so ever! Basically they said it was my fault....hmmmmm!

So now I have 25 lbs of weight in my room. Anyone know of anyone selling the control pod. I had the silver control pod. Thanks!

[Mister_Clean]

I wil have one soon. Please check back later.

Adam

[stpete cooling]

I haven't checked Klipsch's forums much in the past couple of years, but was checking the forum on another topic, so I stopped back at the 5.1 section to see if I can help.

There is no one simple fix, though there are steps that can be taken to prolong system life before failure. I've had great success with hundreds of panels after modifications I've been doing since October 2005. Unfortunately, almost no one will be reading a forum or looking anywhere else about their 5.1 system when their system is still working fine. Looking back over just the past few months, I've repaired dozens of these panels (and far more over the past 4+ years). There is no one typical problem anymore with these panels. I have a log book that tracks a couple dozen possible problems and the symptoms that go with them. In 2005, the repair was typically fast and easy (defective FR104 diode and 4.7 ohm resistor open). I always added cooling to the power supply, though, because the daughterboard can reach 185 degrees Fahrenheit after 20 minutes without loud volume and with the board still sitting in open air. After many hours at that temperature, those boards char and can even start arcing between two 470 ohm resistors. Relocating the resistors to the back of the daughterboard, as one oft-mentioned tech does, helps, but without some air movement the 205,000 1/8 watt resistor rises in value and the board fails, or the 4 zener diodes on the board fail, or one of the 22 ohm or 392 ohm 1% tolerance resistors fail and cause the IRF740 MOSFETs to fail. Sometimes that blows the fuse. When I repair a panel now, I always upgrade the 22 mFd and 47 mFd capacitors on the power supply (6, to 105 degree Celsius), replace and mount for better airflow both the 22V zener diode and 2N5551 transistor, as well as still upgrade the 4.7 ohm resistor (to 3 watt) and FR104 diode (10 parts on the power supply board). I remove the daughter board to upgrade 8 to 20 parts, depending on its condition.

I don't consider a repair complete until I install a fan (started with dual 40mm in 2005, now using a single 92mm 9dB fan) over the two heat sinks on the power supply. That fan reduces temperatures from over 185 degrees in places to a peak of 110 deg. (with an average of 100 degrees). I checked panel last month that had had my fans for a few years, and the daughterboard was still a bright green and the components in great shape, rather than the dark brown I typically see.

As far as what can cause a problem other than the dozen or more parts mentioned above on the power supply, sometimes the bridge rectifier fails, a power spike zaps the MOV or blows the thermal fuse in the standby transformer. The sockets in the connecting cables between boards can get loose or can break. The power relay can fail, or the BASH HC1011 chip(s), or the 100 mFd capacitors on the main board dry out and a hum begins. I've listed many of the symptoms and parts needed as tips within my cooling kit listing that I make available from time to time on eBay. (I'm glad I have none listed there currently, so there is no confusion that I'm trying to sell anything--just here today to clear up some misinformation). A generous man has made a helpful schematic diagram available online since the spring of 2009.

I'm not advertising here. I'm too busy as it is. I just want people to realize the Klipsch amplifiers after several years inside an enclosure will show signs of heat fatigue. The best thing a person can do is lower the temperature inside their sub enclosure. Don't drill holes in the enclosure, though, since it is acoustically tuned. (The fan changes the internal volume of the sub about 1%--not affecting the acoustic performance). Moving air inside the enclosure evens out the temperatures to about 95 to 105 degrees, and brings that heat more efficiently to the back panel, where it is safely radiated or convected into the room.

I hope some of my experience shared here is helpful. Depending on what site you find searching the internet, it is easy to think that just wiggling one part or replacing a fuse will be the fix for everyone. If an owner decides to replace and upgrade the 25 or so parts that I've mentioned above, be careful with the thin copper traces. [Observe correct polarity on diodes, elect. caps and transistors, of course]. Leaving just one trace open will cause the panel to stop working. The traces get brittle on the boards that have gotten darker with heat.

As far as Klipsch's responses: Klipsch made replacement panels available for $60 shipped for several years -- a bargain. (Too bad they did not improve the heat removal from the power supply and the durability of the BASH HC1011 chips). Then panel prices went to $120, and now Klipsch has no more panels. They ran out of controllers several months ago (were $33.39 for years). Prices for controllers vary on eBay, recently spiking to $73, but normally at $40 or less.