merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I decided that I wanted to upgrade my Belles before I veneered them. I had 1984's all stock with AB crossovers. I did some research on the forum and considered a few options like caps, crossovers, horns and drivers. After some e-mail discussions with Greg he said that he could make a V-trac for the Belles. I decided that if I was going to go bear I might as well go grizzly. I felt like I was upgrading and modifying my old Mustang. I kind of did it in steps getting the tweeters at Christmas and then the ALK universal crossovers a couple of weeks later. Well last week the BMS drivers and horns arrived. When Greg e-mailed me the tracking numbers I felt like a little kid waiting for Santa to arrive. The horns came packed well and no problems with shipping. All the hardware and parts that are needed for installation are included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 I first took the top panel off the belles then removed the crossovers, grill assembly and horns. This was done with just a phillips screw driver and a end wrench. Very easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 I placed the new grill assembly and horns in place just to see how they fit and they fit perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 I then mounted the BMS driver to the horn and then the beyma. The directions sent by Greg stepped me through it easily, the horns and grills are also made so that you really would have to try to screw it up to do it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Mounting driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Mounting the beyma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 I placed them in position and screwed them in. The fit was perfect. I then mounted the crossovers and wired them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 The only modification I made was to move the front cross member back by 1 3/16 inches so that it would clear the horn. You could probably leave it out without causing any problems. These cross members are to keep the top panel from sagging. I then replaced the top panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 After installation they look completely stock. The workmanship and finish is all top notch as the man from pluto would say. Now I just have to wait for spring so I can get some new veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 After installation they look completely stock. The workmanship and finish is all top notch as the man from pluto would say. Now I just have to wait for spring so I can get some new veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Now for my impression. I'm not what you could call an audiophile. I have had forte II's since 1989 which I bought new. About 3 years ago I decided to add to the fortes for a HT set up. After having a forte II and quartet set up for a couple of years I got upgraditis. Last fall I bought these beat up belles as a project. I haven't heard any other upgrades to compare these to so I'm just comparing them to the stock version. I'm using a Sunfire TG5 preamp and a Sunfire TGA 7400 amp on the current settings for the two front mains(belles). The current setting is suppose to make the SS amp sound more like a tube amp. Does it work, I don't really know. I first upgraded the tweeters and listened like that for a couple of weeks and could not tell much difference. I then added the universal crossovers and I could tell a difference between them and the stock a/b's. Now I have the full package with horns and BMS drivers and the difference is outstanding. I haven't had a chance to listen to them a lot but here are some of the things I noticed. I'm not very good at verbalizing audio impressions but I will try. I listened to some Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Dire Staits, Rolling Stones and Traffic. The female vocals sounded full, I could really pick out the inflections in their voices and hear their breathing. The voice didn't get muddled in with the other midrange instruments. All of the instruments sounded more separated from each other, I could easily pick out each instrument. The piano of Diana Krall you could hear the piano strings ring. In the rock the instruments came alive and you could pick out each one. The sound stage seemed bigger, the music came from the whole wall not from the speakers. There is no harshness, you can listen at higher levels without any ear strain. I just listened to Ben Harper Burn to Shine. In "steal all my Kisses" I had never noticed that there is someone doing a rapp type of mouth sounds in the mike. All the previous times I had heard it I thought it was just some percussion instrument not a human voice. As previously reported about the V-Trac I keep hearing new things in all my old albums. I'm excited to listen to them all again to see what I was missing. I am definitely very pleased with the upgrade. The installation was easy and fast. (It only took about two beers 1 1/2 to 2 hrs to complete.) If anyone has questions I will gladly answer them about the installation or impressions. If any of you are around the Quadcities or you are passing through drop me a line to arrange for a time to come over and hear them. I'm sure you will enjoy it, but it may cost a beer though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 So , unlike Al's mod these are stock height ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yes they are stock height. A easy bolt in mod that looks completely stock, see picture 1335 jpeg about 3 post back. That is with the V-Tracs installed. Guess I could have moved my pile of newspapers used for starting the fireplace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks , now here's the $1k question . Tweeters in or tweeters out ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Tweeters in. Look back about 5 post to Jpeg 1336, 7 post to 1332 and also about 9 back to 1331 jpeg where I was installing them in the grill. It's the beyma and I have them to the outside edge of the horn just like the V-Trac for the Khorns. The width of the belle is less than an inch wider than the Khorn front. I can't remember the measurements for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks for the reply . I thought so but could not get a true impression of your room set-up . I would think that the placement would have allot to do with room configuration . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Oooooh, I thought you were asking about tweets inside the top section or I was going to put them on top. Now i understand. Yes they are inside the top section and on the outside edge. I don't know if that is better or not. I think I read somewhere on the forum that with the tweets to the outside you get a better sound stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I have alway found that with phased arrays, the location of the HF driver was room dependent, for instance in a shallow room I run my tweeters inboard so I do not have to angle them in so much, and in a larger room I run them outboard. Maybe its just preference. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 Thanks Gothover. Maybe I'll try them on the inside and see how I like it. Do to room configurations I have the belles about 23 feet apart but I'm only setting back from the wall about 15 feet. Kind of a wide shallow set up. I have them toed in quite a lot like 20 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Nice pics and writeup Keith, I'm glad they're working out for you. Nice to see the packaging is working too, I like the way I'm packing them up right now. I often will go a week or more without listening to my Khorns, and a few weeks back, I sat down to listen and something just wasn't right. I pulled one of the speakers and realized that I had switched the tweeters to the inside (actually switched speakers/corners) during my last listening session and I forgot about it. It really does make a difference that you can hear. Mine are on the 22' wall of my 16 x 22' room. I would prefer the tweeters be centered above the mid horn, but it's a compromise I'm willing to make to get the larger format horn and keep the Khorns stock looking. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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