Titanium Tweeter Diaphrams...

[stormin]

It does appear everyone is gaga over the titanium tweeters though.

Have you had a chance to upgrade your Chorus ll's in any way?

Well for twenty years I've happened to like the way Klipsch designed the Chorus II. It's smooth at any crazy volume. It has a 15 that moves like a 10. It's very dynamic as most Klipsch speakers are. I find it very suitable for both ss and tubes. But in the end you get what you pay for. You feed it poor electronics it will give you poor sound. You put it in a bad room you get bad results. You set it out in the middle of the floor it will sound gutless.

Now could I use some new caps in my xovers? Probably, but it isn't harsh yet so I feel they're still doing a pretty descent job.

[stormin]

Your always welcome for a listen.

Yeah Stormin......Take off from work on Friday, meet us at the WI-IL border and you can ride with us up to SET12's pad!

I would like to take you guys up on that offer but it's just not going to be able to happen this week.

[stormin]

Its more than that stormin, the stock networks are just so compressed. I think the combination of large core Inductors, the larger Autotransformers, superior caps and resistors make the mids and tweeters just make these Forte's leap out and the bass is unquestionably superior as well.

As I said this nothing subtle.

Your always welcome for a listen.

SET12

Oh I,m a believer that you have taken your Fortes to another level of performance.

The thread started out about tweeter and mid diaphrams and I'm just not so sure that SWL will see such an improvement in the tractrix mid.

But it sure doesn't hurt to give it a try.

Thanks again for the offer. Would love to stop up sometime.

[SET12]

Its more than that stormin, the stock networks are just so compressed. I think the combination of large core Inductors, the larger Autotransformers, superior caps and resistors make the mids and tweeters just make these Forte's leap out and the bass is unquestionably superior as well.

As I said this nothing subtle.

Your always welcome for a listen.

SET12

Oh I,m a believer that you have taken your Fortes to another level of performance.

The thread started out about tweeter and mid diaphragms and I'm just not so sure that SWL will see such an improvement in the tractrix mid.

But it sure doesn't hurt to give it a try.

Thanks again for the offer. Would love to stop up sometime.

Again I don't think its eactly the tractrix that is responsible here.

I have only one report of a person staying with their original mid with a KLF 20, they claimed the the phase plug had the same diameter holes as the mid pictured here on the right while mine clearly do not as seen lying on the left.

The two pictured are clearly made differently, the coil former on the right is that of a clear plastic type of material while the voice coil former on the left appears to be wound on a copper voice coil former. And even the Phenolic material is different. The KLF 20 person nevermade any comments about the voice coil formers.

The real key I think is the materials. Now what I noticed with your Chorus II's is that Klipsch went from a Phenolic material to a Polymer and of course that could very well be a difference in sound.

The main thing that is real striking in these two mids pictured is the fact that the stock Forte is harshwhich I believe is basicly from the high frequency bounce back associated with it.

So the Polymer mid may very well be a different animal all together but clearly to my ears and those ears that I trust the new mids are flat out superior and I just don't buy the Tractrix theory alone but I buy the Polymer more.

I think the sheer performance gains out of these Titanium's and the new mids are only multiplied by the quality of the other components used with them. While the stock networks give many people great satisfaction, I wish it were enough for me but unfortunately its not.

And finally I'd like to say virtually everything in network influences the sound at least in my system, its been a real ear opener and I hope to show that to SWL tomorrow as well the Cornwall owner.

As I said you, or anyone else is welcome to hear them as the expression on peoples faces from hearing are far better than mere words.

Cheers

SET12

[SWL]

I installed the titanium tweeters in all four KLF-30's today.

The difference.......a minimal improvement in smoothness. A softer, more mellow top end. Night and day difference......no. However, it is an improvement nonetheless over the stock diaphrams for sure. I haven't had a chance to go north of 90db yet so maybe that is where I'll hear more of a difference? Perhaps as they break in a little more they will be more noticable. So far I'm happy with the purchase. Installation can almost be done with your eyes closed. []

I won't have a chance to do the mids until Saturday or Sunday.

[SET12]

I still don't feel SWL will get the full picture. Fortes are exponential horns and KLF's are tractrix. Completely different animal. I feel a much improved horn but that is my opinion. The only folks I see jumping through hoops about the mid change are the folks with the exponential horns.

It does appear everyone is gaga over the titanium tweeters though.

As far as updating and upgrading caps I think every speaker would benefit to a degree.

Caps!, The Inductors may even be more serious! I'll never be satisfied with Iron Cores. To much compression IMO.

I would say the majority yes for the Titanium, but not everybody. IMO the choice of inductor played a major role for my satisfaction and I was warned from others they thought it might be to bright and it is with some inductors.

Perhaps the Polymers are better I don't know, I guess I could try them, but the only way to compare a Tractrix would be to use the same diaphragm not two different ones like Polymer vs Phenolic IMO.

I hooked up a stock pair of Forte's tonight. Compared to my modified pair.

Listening to a cut of the Jennifer Warnes "Hunter" CD on
the stock Fortes after I listened to the modified and I left the volume
level the same before switching them.



The CD has been a reference of mine for 18yrs so I know it well. It has a
very wide sound stage.



The last cut I listened to on the modified was cut 10 "I can't hide"

Here's what I heard, First off.



The sound stage was as though it was literally cut in half or more, I
kid you not.



Everything was scrunched between the speakers with some material just
getting just outside the speaker boundaries.



The air of the recording was simply cramped.



Tonally things were incomplete and somewhat thin like the note decays
just not there.



The bass! WoW notes were like little thumping notes, nowhere near the
warmth of body and sheer size and definition of the modified. Just plain
amazing.



The top end was hard press to give much in the way of room ambiance or a
display of recordings acoustic size. I have heard this cut on many high
end speakers like B&W 801's that displayed the sheer size this
recording has.



When I say this I mean this particular recording seemed like 15ft of
stage width was whacked off which is utterly amazing to me.

We'll see tommorrow what the the guys think!

SET12

[SWL]

Wow......My tweeters suddenly came to life with this song!

[SWL]

Installed the midrange diaphrams today. They're actually easier to install than the tweeter diaphrams.

Gonna let them break in over the weekend.

[SWL]

the mids do sound cramped on the first listen, but once youre 10 hours into them, youll fall in love

Yes, they are cramped all right. You guys hit it right on the head. []

Can't wait for the "fall in love" stage of the break in. [:^)]

[toolguym]

I installed my new diaphrams in my Chorus II's last weekend.Slightly smoother top end now.I am still working on speaker placement........I am not "seeing" as wide a soundstage as I was with my KG-4's!I guess it could be crossovers,or a placement issue.

[SWL]

Slightly smoother top end now

That's what I noticed with the the titanium tweeters right away. "Slightly" smoother.

Have you done your mids as well?

[toolguym]

I haven't had a chance to do the mids yet.I picked up the speakers last weekend from Gregg357 and he had the tweeter diaphrams.I would like to do the mids as well,and I am seriously considering crossovers.From what I have read, everything from Crites is excellant.I am looking forward to future upgrades.

[SWL]

I just did the titanium tweeters and the mid replacement on my KLF-30's.


Titanium tweeters = I'm keeping them in. Subtle improvement smoothing out the top end. Night and day difference...no...but worth it IMO for $52.00.

Mid-range replacement diaphrams = After 40 hours of giving them a fair shake...I went back to the originals. The upgraded diaphrams never opened up. "Muffled" comes to mind compared to the originals. Popped the originals back in and the sparkle, spaciousness and their ability to breath was back in a big way.

Perhaps the upgraded mid-range diaphrams would be more suited for someone using a bright solid state amp? I'm using tubes for the mid-highs that are silky smooth. Just my experience. My ears, my room, my gear. YMMV

[stormin]

Mid-range replacement diaphrams = After 40 hours of giving them a fair shake...I went back to the originals. The upgraded diaphrams never opened up. "Muffled" comes to mind compared to the originals. Popped the originals back in and the sparkle, spaciousness and their ability to breath was back in a big way.

I still think it is a tractrix vs exponential difference. There is actually no comparing the two different horn designs. The flare has the most profound effect on the sound IMHO. Almost every new design on the planet is using tractrix now. Even all of the DIY'ers build tractrix horns. Side by side an exponential horn sounds hon-key to a tractrix horn.

[SET12]

Mid-range replacement diaphrams = After 40 hours of giving them a fair shake...I went back to the originals. The upgraded diaphrams never opened up. "Muffled" comes to mind compared to the originals. Popped the originals back in and the sparkle, spaciousness and their ability to breath was back in a big way.

I still think it is a tractrix vs exponential difference. There is actually no comparing the two different horn designs. The flare has the most profound effect on the sound IMHO. Almost every new design on the planet is using tractrix now. Even all of the DIY'ers build tractrix horns. Side by side an exponential horn sounds hon-key to a tractrix horn.

I just did the titanium tweeters and the mid
replacement on my KLF-30's.


Titanium tweeters = I'm keeping
them in. Subtle improvement smoothing out the top end. Night and day
difference...no...but worth it IMO for $52.00.

Mid-range
replacement diaphrams = After 40 hours of giving them a fair shake...I
went back to the originals. The upgraded diaphrams never opened up.
"Muffled" comes to mind compared to the originals. Popped the originals
back in and the sparkle, spaciousness and their ability to breath was
back in a big way.

Perhaps the upgraded mid-range diaphrams would
be more suited for someone using a bright solid state amp? I'm using
tubes for the mid-highs that are silky smooth. Just my experience. My
ears, my room, my gear. YMMV

In my Forte's they are ticket the big time to
my ears in my system.



No doubt the new mids probably won't be for everyone, I do know of
people that didn't like the Titanium tweeters.



One should keep in mind these diaphragm's are effected with the
components associated with them. That means the inductors, caps and
resistors I have been able to swap out various parts of my outboard
networks and everything was audible and some of those parts were not great!

For the Mids, the Crites Autotransformers I use with mine have 50%
larger cores and have much more extended bandwidth.



Even associated gear can have an influence, so especially YMMV.

Also I think its highly unlikely that just the Tractrix would alone do what these new mids, coupling caps and auto-transformers have done for me, and I doubt that any stock Forte II with a Tractrix horn would even come close to the sound-stage size and mid-range transparency I have gotten with what I'm using. If someone has a pair your welcome to bring them on!

But we may have a little comparison coming up in the near future as I have spoken to SWL's friend Jim and after some time with him on the phone I agreed I would demo my amps for him, and if I'm doing that I might as well haul the rest of my system as well, So there will be an opportunity here for people to hear for themselves with everything in the same environment with the same gear.

This is pretty close to Chicago.

SET12

[SWL]

But we may have a little comparison coming up in the near future as I have spoken to SWL's friend Jim and after some time with him on the phone I agreed I would demo my amps for him, and if I'm doing that I might as well haul the rest of my system as well, So there will be an opportunity here for people to hear for themselves with everything in the same environment with the same gear.

Atta Boy Dan. [Y]

I didn't know Jim could be so persuasive. []