InVeNtOr Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 sorry man. that is why it's call "The Madness!" lol. i think a lot of people get it stuck in their head they NEED surrounds. if you have the wall space, go for it. when it starts getting complicated like hanging them, ceiling, odd placements, i think it's just not worth it. like youth said, the center channel is where all the sound comes into play. if you get 2 speakers and image them very well you will fool everyone that the sound is coming from the center. people that have a 5.1 + set up usually do a stereo demo and try and see if they can get someone to put an ear to the center channel and watch the expression when they find out no sound is coming from it. i also think it's the safest bet. you HT budget should go first to the mains. after the mains are bought, get a good processor. that way you can actually hear them! lol. next is a sub. the reason is subs are expencive but not as expensive as a center and surrounds and all the cables it takes. this way all you have to do is plug the sub in and bam! now you are really rocking! once you save up the desired money, then get your center and surrounds. if you do it that way you can for 100% know if you actually want to do surrounds. you may not, you may will. either way, you have a great set of mains to start the build. unless you have thousands burning a hole in your pocket you have to build slowly. many of us did. i am too impatient. i saved up all i needed to buy everything at once. what was the restriction on the main speakers? i know for a fact rb-61's sound good by themselves. you can get any bookshelf in the category. all should sound very similar. i think youth is attempting to sell a pair......come on youth help out a new guy.....lol LOL youth! no it's not picking on you day! lol. we all have our bad habbits. i saw a nice space behind the couch and thats where it went. i have been blessed, i haven't had a true sub guy come over and hear it! lol. i am sure if he or she does i'll have to fix it. i have a litle room to work with, but the sub i have says it is designed to go in a corner, i only have 1, so that's where it is.....lol. i forgot to mention, if you really want surrounds, you can try the klipsch CS700 set up. i have no idea how good it is, but it can't be all that bad. i still say stick iwth mains and sub and be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 smitty is selling a pair of RB-5's. they are an amazing speaker. i believe they would be considered "better" than rb-61's. the only advantage i put the 61's over the 5, is the 61's are front ported so you can but that bookshelf actually in a book shelf and not have much of an issue. don't know price or anything, just thought i'd let you know. here is the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 9, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 9, 2010 Inventor has offered some solid advice. I built mine the way he suggested....Mains, then Sub, then center, then surrounds. You just have to be patient. i know for a fact rb-61's sound good by themselves. The RB-61's do have a great sound quality, just not much in the bass department. A good sub will remedy this. i think youth is attempting to sell a pair......come on youth help out a new guy.....lol I do have a pair of RB-35's but am trying to sell them locally since I do not have the original boxes and would really prefer not to ship them. I've seen too many horror pics of shipping damage and I don't have the packing skillz that Noah has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 well okay youth, maybe he'll let you slide on that one. it has been said noah has some awesome packing skills. i think him and falcon should have a packing contest. i am like you though, if i have to sale speakers i'd prefer to take a small hit on the price for a local sale. i think most of here would be crushed if we sent some speakers we took awesome care of, only to have it damaged in shipping. i know it wouldn't be our fault but still, the person buying it would be disappointed. it hurts us....it hurts us deep.......(lonely tear....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 10, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2010 Yeah, willand just had a pair of speakers damaged during shipping and he packed it very well. You just never know how rough they will get tossed around during shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stink Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 sorry man. that is why it's call "The Madness!" lol. i think a lot of people get it stuck in their head they NEED surrounds. if you have the wall space, go for it. when it starts getting complicated like hanging them, ceiling, odd placements, i think it's just not worth it. like youth said, the center channel is where all the sound comes into play. if you get 2 speakers and image them very well you will fool everyone that the sound is coming from the center. people that have a 5.1 + set up usually do a stereo demo and try and see if they can get someone to put an ear to the center channel and watch the expression when they find out no sound is coming from it. i also think it's the safest bet. you HT budget should go first to the mains. after the mains are bought, get a good processor. that way you can actually hear them! lol. next is a sub. the reason is subs are expencive but not as expensive as a center and surrounds and all the cables it takes. this way all you have to do is plug the sub in and bam! now you are really rocking! once you save up the desired money, then get your center and surrounds. if you do it that way you can for 100% know if you actually want to do surrounds. you may not, you may will. either way, you have a great set of mains to start the build. unless you have thousands burning a hole in your pocket you have to build slowly. many of us did. i am too impatient. i saved up all i needed to buy everything at once. what was the restriction on the main speakers? i know for a fact rb-61's sound good by themselves. you can get any bookshelf in the category. all should sound very similar. i think youth is attempting to sell a pair......come on youth help out a new guy.....lol LOL youth! no it's not picking on you day! lol. we all have our bad habbits. i saw a nice space behind the couch and thats where it went. i have been blessed, i haven't had a true sub guy come over and hear it! lol. i am sure if he or she does i'll have to fix it. i have a litle room to work with, but the sub i have says it is designed to go in a corner, i only have 1, so that's where it is.....lol. i forgot to mention, if you really want surrounds, you can try the klipsch CS700 set up. i have no idea how good it is, but it can't be all that bad. i still say stick iwth mains and sub and be done. Thanks for all the advice! I'm not sure if I'm ready to buy yet....we're still in the planning and demolishing phase. Are you sure he is selling the RB-5's? It looked, from his post, that he was selling his big setup and keeping the RB-5's for himself. For restrictions on the mains.....I'm still pushing and pulling with the wife on that one. Floorstanding is definately out and bookshelf is leaning towards unlikely. She wants totally discreet which means I may have to go with in-wall. I'd rather have bookshelf, personally, but I think I might concede to her on this one for 2 reasons : 1) If we do end up converting the garage, I'll be able to come back and buy just about anything you guys recommend. 2) I think it will be a better selling point, if and when we move (the goal has always been to build our house eventually), if I have architectural speakers that stay with the house instead of saying "Its wired for surround but you have to go buy speakers cause I'm taking these bad boys with me". If I can convince her that the mains will still look good in the room out in the open, though, things may tip into my favor. As for stereo receivers with HDMI, do you have any suggestions off the top of your head? I looked at the ONKYO and Denon websites and couldn't find anything. I might just not be proficient enough at browsing their sites, though. The Onkyo 707 has been the receiver I have been planning on going with. Inventor has offered some solid advice. I built mine the way he suggested....Mains, then Sub, then center, then surrounds. You just have to be patient. The RB-61's do have a great sound quality, just not much in the bass department. A good sub will remedy this. I do have a pair of RB-35's but am trying to sell them locally since I do not have the original boxes and would really prefer not to ship them. I've seen too many horror pics of shipping damage and I don't have the packing skillz that Noah has. My dad lives in Zephyrhills, which I think is close to Plant City. He's planning to fly over in the next few months, but I doubt the baggage handlers are any better than the postal office. lol Jumping allllll the way back to one of Bill's posts, I may look at this false wall thing and see if its within my capabilities. The only major issue, if I go surround, is that it may be tricky building a pocket for the center channel since the damn breaker box is right behind where the tv will be going. If you mount a tv on the wall, can the center go above or below the tv? Does it matter? A little off topic, but I measured the garage last night. 15'x11'. That sound big enough for a decent little family HT room? Thanks again for you time and patience, guys. You've been awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 10, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2010 I'm not sure if I'm ready to buy yet....we're still in the planning and demolishing phase. Nothing wrong with that. Use this time to do your homework, obtain as much knowledge as you can so that when you are ready to buy, you know what you want. If I can convince her that the mains will still look good in the room out in the open, though, things may tip into my favor. Good luck with that. When my wife and I were looking to buy a house, she was not cool with the floorstanders. I went to look at the RB-61's (research mode). Ended up listening to the RF-7's and fell in love. Many months later, we decided to build and it was her idea for me to have a dedicated theater room...that way I could put whatever I want in it. My dad lives in Zephyrhills, which I think is close to Plant City. He's planning to fly over in the next few months, but I doubt the baggage handlers are any better than the postal office. lol LOL. Probably true. Yes, Zephyrhills is about 20 - 30 min North of me. If you mount a tv on the wall, can the center go above or below the tv? Does it matter? Either way is fine. Just make sure you can angle the speaker towards your ears so that the sound won't be coming at your knees or over your head. A little off topic, but I measured the garage last night. 15'x11'. That sound big enough for a decent little family HT room? My HT is 13' x 19'. I wish it was a few feet wider and a few feet longer but I realize I'm blessed to even be able to have a dedicated HT. People have made HT from all size rooms. Anything can work, just depends on what your needs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stink Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 Well, the gauntlet was officially dropped last night and I'm not sure if I want to push the issue any further. "In-walls or those cute little bose speakers at best buy" was the choice given to me when I brought up bookshelves for the mains. So, assuming architectural is better than the quintets, I need to go from there. I think I'll start off, since I'm working on that wall anyways, trying to get the front and center channels done and running the wire into the attic for the rears, which will go in the ceiling. I'm a bit confused on the center channel, though. Will any architectural speaker work? They don't have specific center channel speakers listed for the in walls on the website. Also, which works better, in-wall or in-ceiling subs? Sorry...I know I didn't take much of any of your advice....but the wife decided to play a trump card. It really is appreciated, though. We can start planning the setup for my garage conversion, if you want, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 Don't feel bad, there are plenty of other guys in the same shoes as you. WAF often leads to much compromise. I'm a bit confused on the center channel, though. Will any architectural speaker work? They don't have specific center channel speakers listed for the in walls on the website. Most inwalls don't have a dedicated center channel but that is ok. Most would agree that the most ideal system is one that uses all of the same speakers. By having three identical speakers up front, you will have a seamless transition when panning from one speaker to another. Also, which works better, in-wall or in-ceiling subs? My guess would be in wall. Main reason is that the higher you place a speaker, the less bass response you get. That may be because you have a floor to help bounce sound off of. It might work the same with inceiling though since you have a ceiling to bounce waves off of. I'll leave that question to the experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 Don't feel bad, there are plenty of other guys in the same shoes as you. WAF often leads to much compromise. I'm a bit confused on the center channel, though. Will any architectural speaker work? They don't have specific center channel speakers listed for the in walls on the website. Most inwalls don't have a dedicated center channel but that is ok. Most would agree that the most ideal system is one that uses all of the same speakers. By having three identical speakers up front, you will have a seamless transition when panning from one speaker to another. Also, which works better, in-wall or in-ceiling subs? My guess would be in wall. Main reason is that the higher you place a speaker, the less bass response you get. That may be because you have a floor to help bounce sound off of. It might work the same with inceiling though since you have a ceiling to bounce waves off of. I'll leave that question to the experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stink Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 Don't feel bad, there are plenty of other guys in the same shoes as you. WAF often leads to much compromise. I just wonder how shes going to react when I show her the price tags..har! My guess would be in wall. Main reason is that the higher you place a speaker, the less bass response you get. That may be because you have a floor to help bounce sound off of. It might work the same with inceiling though since you have a ceiling to bounce waves off of. I'll leave that question to the experts. Hrm, ok. I'll try searching the architectural section of the forums and if I can't find anything, I'll start a new topic. Now time for some learnings : Browsing around on ebay, I see there are some R-5650-W and R-5650-S. I'm not totally sure what the W and S stand for. There are some slight differences between the two but I'm not too keen on what they mean. I understand frequency response, but I don't quite know what is "good". I imagine some speakers are purposely designed to have a higher response? Is an 8 Hz difference anything to write home about? The S's are 60-20k and the W's are 52-20k. I have no idea what crossover frequency is. I did some googling but couldn't find anything to explain it where it made sense. Do I want higher or lower? Would the CDT-5650-C be in the same "family" as the R-5650s ? I'm not sure if I should be comparing the first set of letters or the number to determine this. These are some common (which hopefully means I'll be able to find a deal on) architectural speakers on ebay : http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/rcw-5-specifications/ http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/r-5650-s-specifications/ http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/r-5650-w-specifications/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stink Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 There's a KS-7800 listed for sale for $250 in Dallas (Though the box in the picture says KL-7800) . We go there quite often. I asked if he had more. It says 400w peak for the KS speakers...can the 707 handle that? The KLs are 150w max continuous, which I believe are out of my power range. http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR707&class=Receiver&p=s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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