getting ready to install acoustic treatments

[amusingisthedawn]

...I would really rather not be bothered getting owens corning 703 and building these things myself, so I was looking at http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24x48x4--1008.html

I have a couple of questions first. Is this a quality product? They have the option to put an open back on on the treatment to leave a 2 inch gap between the treatment and the wall (they say this is best for bass-trapping). Aesthetically I am limited. It is a 15x15x9 room. I was thinking about putting two of the larger treatments behind the main speakers on the front wall. Should these have the open back or not? Is this the best place to put them first? I only suggest to myself to do it this way first, because...something is better than nothing, and I dunno how the lady of the house would feel about function over what looks acceptable.

[amusingisthedawn]

I am also concerned this double wide closet might be tampering with an ideal sound. Should this closet area be deadened inside?

[Chris A]

I was thinking about putting two of the larger treatments behind the main speakers on the front wall.

This depends on a couple of things. I see that you have floor-standing front speakers. I was advised against having absortion material too close to my corner horns, and that recommendation was right on. With yours, I see that your problem is that 15 x 15 dimension (i.e., square).

If I might make bold here: you might try to stack up small wall of traps directly behind your seating position (see this reference). For low frequency stuff, the only thing that I've found that works is changing the room's effective dimensions. Traps don't work very well below about 250 Hz.

something is better than nothing, and I dunno how the lady of the house would feel about function over what looks acceptable.

This is really a show stopper, IMHO. Assuming it is the lf that is giving you the most trouble (...you didn't say what frequencies are giving you trouble...), I'd say having a one or two "wall partitions" that can be moved about may be the most effective thing that you can do. But, I could be off on a tangent here...

[amusingisthedawn]

Well..I don't have corner horns, I have legend series. I don't know if that rule applies to me? I thought you want to put treatments behind the speakers, but leave some room on the bottom for the ports to breathe.

High frequencies are mainly the problem. The sound bounces a lot and it hurts... funny thing is that the low frequencies actually sound really good. Bass is tight and deep, but I do feel it could always be tighter, but the high frequencies seem to keep moving around the room.

I might also be wrong...it may be 15x12...and the mains are on the 12' wall. Like I said before...it has to look nice...moveable wall partitions is totally out of the question. I have read a lot and understand I'm not in an ideal position...but I do also know that most normal people have to work with what they have...and through trial and error people have found that certains things really help, regardless of what the ultimate science of sound is.

[Chris A]

I might also be wrong...it may be 15x12...and the mains are on the 12' wall.

Well (as they said in The Wizard of Oz), "...that's a horse of a different color...".

If that is true, then you might want to kill the ceiling, floor and side-wall bounce first. Putting a panel in the center of the front wall (diffusion, but probably not absorption) is one that I'd recommend. They make those funny brick-a-brac foam diffusion panels that can be easily stuck up on a wall. The side walls might have one diffusion panel each halfway back to your listening position.

Then maybe something along the back wall that absorbs broader-band (and requires a few inches of standoff), like the traps you mentioned above, but maybe also a diffusion foam on the surface to further control first-reflections off the back wall. Maybe start with one or two panels pretty close to the center of the back wall, then try moving them towards the corners and listen.

EDIT: I just saw your pictures - You might want to try moving your fronts away from the front wall by a foot or so. Otherwise, they are acting like cornerhorns, and you are presently getting the benefit of the greatly increased lf performance. If you want to leave them in the corners, then I'd say: "leave out the traps from the front corners".

[Chris A]

Should this closet area be deadened inside?

I don't think that is an issue if there are doors. In fact, I'd say that the closet is acting as a beneficial bass trap with the doors shut.(i.e., Helmholz resonator). If there are no doors, then maybe you have a valid worry there.

Chris

[Chris A]

[Bill H.]

What concerns me is that all your Gear is right against a HEAT Register ! Do you have the Ability to shut off that Register?...............

JMHO...................[H]

[amusingisthedawn]

Heat register? What do you mean? The closet is empy except for one dedicated circuit for the single outlet in it.

And...NO DOORS on the closet...

Do you suggest I move the speakers further from the front wall or not? It was confusing how you put it.

[Chris A]

And...NO DOORS on the closet...

Okay, this is something that may require a little trial and error to determine, what, if anything, that you want to do with the open closet space. For now, I'd say leave it alone and do the rest of the room.

Do you suggest I move the speakers further from the front wall or not? It was confusing how you put it.

My apologies, I've inadvertently become more PC and obscure in the way that I state things over time. What I was saying is that your front speakers are in the corners (just as PWK would have recommended). However, even though they are made by Klipsch, they may have been balanced for free-standing placement in the room. If you like the increased bass (which also will have smoother response, contrary to popular opinion), then I'd leave them in the corners. If you put a panel in each corner, it will likely change the mid-bass so much that it will sound very dead. So I'd think about placing acoustic panels away from those corners. My experience/my opinion here.

The reason for recommending diffusion panels instead of absorption panels is that you said the higher frequencies are the ones that are giving you trouble. If this really is the problem, then the way I've seen to handle that kind of problem is to use diffusion, not absorption. The very highest frequencies will always be attenuated, even with diffusion panels, because they are most easily absorbed or redirected away from the "first reflection" wavefronts to your ears.

I've found that I like my live room, and anytime that I put something that absorbs anything other than mid-bass reflections, I feel that the room is smaller and deader. It's really not a good sensation. However, if your room is too live, then a slight amount of diffusion will really help. I've also noticed that having furnishings in the room, like WAF-stuff on top of tables and cabinets, actually improves the listening experience because these objects contribute to the diffusion. I'm not saying "overdo it", but I'm saying that one way to achieve your goals is to put MORE things on the walls and on top of flat surfaces. Very WAF-friendly approach.

If you do the diffusion thing first, and still have issues, then dealing with that closet could come second.If you still want to attenuate the mid-bass frequencies and midrange, then I'd place those panels directly behind your listening position. It's a bit more complicated to explain why this is, but it has to do with how we perceive "spaciousnous" in rooms. Floyd Toole's book is good for understanding this effect.

Chris

[amusingisthedawn]

Ok. The room is 12'x15'. The speakers are along the 12' wall. I also have a massive shelving system behind the seating area which contains 400something cd's. Should I put absorbtion panels on the sides of the room first? Or should I put diffusion panels on the wall with the speakers/tv?

[Chris A]

Should I put absorbtion panels on the sides of the room first? Or should I put diffusion panels on the wall with the speakers/tv?

I'd look at putting diffusers the side walls. You might also consider treating the floor in front of the speakers with slightly thicker carpeting. This will slightly deaden the whole room, but might address the high frequencies that you mentioned the best.

Your room is not large, so I'd be very careful about putting "sound absorption panels" in it. In your room, you may not be able to treat the area between the speakers. The ceiling is one area that is difficult to address, but may be your
best candidate for treatment since ceilings are usually flat and
unobstructed (i.e., no diffusers). I know that ceiling treatments are very
difficult to do well from a WAF standpoint - I've not figured out how
to do it myself in my domain. [:S]

After diffusion panels, bass traps are probably the next area to think about. They go best in one or more corners (your choice), across the corner (i.e., one reasonably sized trap in one corner might be enough). You can also place a bass trap which has its top tilted forward on the wall behind your listening couch/chairs and the bottom of the panel is pulled out a foot or two. You want to form a triangle between the floor, bass trap, and wall, in cross section. This will actually improve the perceived bass response of the room since you will be trapping mid-bass frequencies only (~200 Hz --> ~500 Hz). A trap can be a relatively inexpensive device, with or without a frame.

[amusingisthedawn]

http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24x48x4--1026.html

I was going to put 4 of these on the side walls since they are totally bare. 2 on each side. I was going to get them with the wood back and not the open back so they would act more like diffusers. I really want to convince my girlfriend to let me carpet the whole room with a theater-esc carpet...but she isn't going for it hehe

I have a feeling if I put these treatments on the side walls...it will be a great improvment from where I am now. Bass traps are a real eye-sore...so I don't think I could ever put them in there. These treatments I linked would be in black and look kinda cool on the side walls.

[Chris A]

Given the constrints that you mention, then I'd say go for it. It may be that the most effective thing to do is the carpet at each speaker, but the side panels will certainly absorb a great deal. You might also look at a couple of these as alternatives, iIf it is high frequencies that are the issue.

Chris

[Bill H.]

Heat Register- the white area on your Base Boards...........can you shut them Off. ?

[amusingisthedawn]

I could turn the ball valve off...but then it would be cold in there? Why the big fuss? It doesn't create nearly enough heat to to any damage...and the only thing it is close to is the speakers. It stops before the KLF on the right side.

BTW, I made the purchase and ordered (4) 24x48 4" panels

[colterphoto1]

The question might be 'what acoustic anomoly are we attempting to control?' Have you defined the frequencies that are problematic or are you just trying to tame the bounce off of drywall?

The material, size, and location of acoustic materials will vary depending on room geometry, seating location, problem frequencies, other items in the room that reflect/absorb/diffuse sound. There are a wealth of threads here on the Forum and internet about this. Ethan Winer is a good source.

Michael

[amusingisthedawn]

I ended up putting 3 2'x4' 4" thick panels on either side of the listening position, and also a panel on either side of the television. The side panels have a wood back so they act more as diffusion, the 2 on the forward wall have open backs and act as bass traps.

I just want to say that this is the single most noticeable upgrade I have made to my set-up. The bass is in your face, and hits your chest without any reverberation or boominess like it had before. The highs have become so tame, that I can turn it up much louder without ear fatigue. Even my girlfriend was impressed...movies and music are CRISP and CLEAN.

I will eventually add 3 more panels hung from the ceiling a couple of feet before the listening position.

[Chris A]

I just want to say that this is the single most noticeable upgrade I have made to my set-up.

Cool...

[tnoble1]

I have been reading this and dont know if you still are thinking about this... I personally dont buy product from companies anymore...they are expensive and in my opinion not as good. (not to be to subject lol)... My favorite is the really rigid insulation... and you can make a frame and suspend it in and cover it with whatever cloth you want as long as it is breathable.. Personally the primary reflection wall is what i would concider the main problem... Basically you dont want to have a ton of reflections bouncing off the room... I cant say for sure, but that would be my guess... And rubber mount under everything... especially sub... dont let things touch the floor its all around better. And I would put in as much bass trap as you can possibly get away with... you can never have to much... like i said you want the source and not the reflection... your not in a concert hall...and yah i would treat also the side walls periodically and behind each speaker. There are ways to make all the appliances do the job correctly and still look really good. but then again its a time/money issue... I hope that whatever you do/did will work out for you and you will be able to enjoy some bone chilling movies with a killer sound!