Crites Upgrade to KG-4 Horns

[opteron44]

As some of you may recall, I had been considering moving to Fortes from my original KG-4's. While the responses were quite encouraging, I found that the ones in my area on CraigsList were sold before I could arrange for an audition prior to purchase. Having read positive comments about the crossovers and replacement horn diaphragms from Bob Crites, I called him to get his thoughts about the possible results from his items. To my surprise, he suggested that the diaphragms at $52 would likely have a greater effect on the sound than the $210 crossovers. With shipping, the diaphragms cost $58.00.

If you haven't the patience to read further and wonder if you should try them, the answer is simple - do it!

I printed out the installation instructions on his website and had them nearby when the package arrived a few days later. As you may know, the upper woofer overlaps the bottom lip of the KG-4's horn. As such, you need to first loosen the upper screws of the woofer and then remove the screws retaining the horn. As with removing a wheel from your car, I suggest removing the screws in a cross pattern so that the weight of the horn is spread out as evenly as possible. Once I got to the last screw, I held the horn in place as the last screw came out. After noting which wire was plugged on to which post, I removed the wires and removed the horn being careful to make sure that the gasket was left in place. I then followed Crites' instructions to replace the factory diaphragms. (He made a point of telling me not to touch the surface of the titanium dome. I took him seriously and suggest you do as well.) The horn was then returned to the cabinet and the screws tightened following a cross pattern. As with a wheel, the final tightening is only done when all of the screws were back in place. It's easy to tell when you've used enough torque to hold the horn in place. Once you get to that point, stop turning. From start to finish, less than 30 minutes was spent in doing this.

While there may be some questions, given the composition of the diaphragm, I decided to do no serious listening until they had about 10 hours of break-in time. The difference was striking. The original cast recording of "Mack and Mabel" had been a little thin before. Now it had razor sharp definition, but was really close to being too much out of balance treble to mid to bass. Next up was the opening quintet from Sondheim's "A Little Night Music". Previously, I had enjoyed the ease of locating the singer's positions relative to each other. It was even easier now and many passing notes in the orchestration were audible that had gotten lost before. But, it was brighter than I liked - an issue that hadn't come up before. I thought about one poster's comment to the effect that this upgrade to the Kg-4 made him feel the lack of a dedicated mid-range horn. What to do?

My listening room is a difficult one: 9' w x 18 l with a 7.5' ceiling. We sit in front of a built-in bookcase on the short wall and the speakers are set on 1" brass fittings on 1" thick ash cutting boards on top of the rug with the fronts of the cabinets 103" in front of our ears. (Thanks to my wife for allowing this placement.) Apart from the improvement in the sound, the cutting boards allow for relatively easy positioning.

Guessing, I pulled the speakers towards me by 2". Now the sound was suddenly short on the top end. I pushed them back an inch and there it was.

The highs were now both much smoother and clearer and the overall sound was much better balanced while still providing a deep, wide sound stage with instruments and singers easy to hear. The same improvement was easily noticeable in the 2nd movement of Rachmaninoff's 2nd symphony with Previn leading the LSO. The soundtrack to "Cinema Paradiso" was also better. In particular, there is a brief duet with French horn and saxophone that had always had me guessing at the second instrument. Lastly, I listened to the 2nd movement of the Sibelius 5th symphony with Maazel and the Weiner Philharmoniker. This was remarkably improved - the inner voicings of the strings were fully audible, showing how carefully Sibelius had constructed the development of the themes that were brought to the fore by the French horns.

So, an easy installation at a delivered cost of $58, an adjustment of the speaker location and I've significantly changed my system for the better. I'll think seriously about whether I really need to spend the money for the Fortes or just get the Crites crossovers for the KG-4's. If I eventually opt for the Fortes, I would need to budget for the cost of the Crites diaphragms for them. Judging by what I have gotten from my KG-4's, there is no way I would not spend the extra money for them for the Fortes.

In any case, if you have KG-4's, I believe that I am safe in saying that, until you get the Crites diaphragms (and possibly reposition the speakers), you haven't heard all that your speakers can bring you.

[djk]

Try hitting enter every now and then, please.

[opteron44]

My posting was actually written twice - each time, my paragraph spacing disappeared in the preview pane when I reviewed it. After the second time, I just gave up.

I have no idea why this happened and am sorry for the difficulty in reading it.

[Hifi jim]

My posting was actually written twice - each time, my paragraph spacing disappeared in the preview pane when I reviewed it. After the second time, I just gave up.

I have no idea why this happened and am sorry for the difficulty in reading it.

I'm guessing that you are using a Mac with Safari browser?

I have the same problem, something to do with compatibility between Safari and this forum.

[opteron44]

Thanks for the insight, Jim.

I think that I was using Chrome on my PC. With that in mind, I used IE and regained some control - at least enough to allow me to edit and repost.

Thanks!

[Hifi jim]

If you haven't the patience to read further and wonder if you should try them, the answer is simple - do it!

You've written a fine review of the Crites titanium tweeter upgrade, and have given me serious thought about doing this on my kg4s. The kg4s are my favorite 2 way Klipsch and they're quite the little overachievers. If you go the crossover route on your kg4s, please give us an update here. Happy listening.

[JeromeB]

Any feed back from Bob Crites upgrades (crossover & titanium diaphragm) on KG4?

[opteron44]

Hi,

I've kept in mind what Bob Crites told me: if I was going to do only one upgrade, the benefit of doing the diaphragms was significantly greater than doing the crossovers. As such, I have left things as they are in the speaker area.

However, I was fortunate enough to find a well-priced used Grant Fidelity B-283 which sits in between the Direct output mode of my Emotiva UMC-1 (when I am listening to music) and the XPA-3 amp. The difference made by this tube stage with the KG-4's is quite significant in both sound stage depth and responsiveness.

I also moved to an Oppo BDP-80 Blu-ray player and completed the system with a Panasonic TCP50ST30 plasma TV.

These changes pushed me to the end of the budget, so unless something breaks or something unexpected happens, I'm done for now.

[fini]

Thanks for the update!

[Dpac996]

Reviving this old thread. 

Scored 2 pairs of KG4's at an estate sale last week. Excellent condition. Original owner. Fired up pair one with matching SN's in my main rig which consists of Pass Labs X2.5 preamp running balanced to a Bryston 4BSST² with a Marantz SACD player and USB audio dac. Main speakers are Dynaudio Contour S3.4 LE's. 

 

I positioned them about 7 feet center to center, 2 feet apart and set them on some inactive sub-woofer cabinets. 

My mouth opened and hung there was I played song after song speechless at the impact, openness, upper frequency air, tone, and overall enjoyable sound that issued forth from these squatty music makers. 

 

In some areas with some music they are better than the dynaudios, which is just incredible. What were they new circa 1988? ~400-500? Inflation calculator suggests that's about $1000 in today's money. The Dyns are 7x more in today's money. The do NOT sound 7 times better, lol!

 

I just received titanium tweeters and crossover kit from Bob Crites. Can't wait to try that out...

 

I am re thinking the high powered amp/ low efficiency speakers in favor of a Great tube amp or Nelson Pass First watt Class A 30 wpc and the Forte III"s...unless the KG4's are just the bomb and tamper the ol' upgraditis.

 

 

 

 

[dusty_bottoms]

Installed the titanium horn diaphragms yesterday and the difference is very gratifying. I love these speakers now, and I thought they were pretty damn good before.

[Dpac996]

Finally getting around to update; Months ago I ordered the Crites titanium diaphragms and crossover parts; I only installed the tweeter upgrade and it made a giant improvement in treble response. Much more accurate and open sounding. I am hoping to knock out the crossover update this weekend; 

 

The KG-4's are pretty amazing speakers. They play very loudly without any sense of strain or dynamic compression. Drums sound fast and tight; I am running them with a Bryston 4B3 and Pass Labs XP-10 preamp; I am super curious to see how they respond with a tube amp.