mustang guy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I put a pair of La Scalas in the front left and right on my Integra DTR 5.9. Those speakers are approximately 30' from the center listening position. The center channel is using a pair of Paradigm Cinema 220 speakers next to eachother horizontally (one just coundn't cut it!). They seem to be able to keep up with the La Scalas nicely. The sub is a Paradigm DSP-3200. The other speakers are all Cinema 220's. The Integra receiver is driving the La Scalas nicely, but I DEFINITELY need more bass, and some different satelite speakers. I question whether La Scalas would work well as rears in my application. As it stands I am very weak in the sub area, and more La Scalas seem like they would only make that worse. My plan is to get LOTS more bass, and to go with something Cornwall or smaller for the rear and sides. As for acoustic foam, I may indeed need that. The sounds are bouncing a lot on all those hard surfaces. There needs to be more places for the sound to get absorbed. Those things that hang from the ceiling may be the best thing in my application. Any opinions on bass? The actual volume of the building I am trying to fill with sound is probably about 80,000 cu ft! The actual listening area volume is 50,000 of that. Wish I could get a set of these for cheap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 In your situation I would get HIP for all the other channels and either build or buy a big TH sub. The Heresy Industrial Ported was 102dB/W/1M and used the same midrange and tweeter drivers as the LaScala, and the same network (midrange cap value different). http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/TH%20412%20Spec%20Sheet.PDF A DIY design that's ±1dB 31hz~120hz: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 P.S. You can turn an original Heresy into the Industrial with the right bits and pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 The Darley's are very nice indeed. I see they have many models available. I have a couple questions: How did you decide on the TH-412 of everything they offer? You mentioned buy or build. I can build one? As in a kit or something? I am not seeing prices either... Can these things be suspended, or must they rest on the floor? Srry for all the questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 You are in luck - that is if you like a bargain and don't mind doing a little fun work. The Danley DST-10s have just become available (until September) as kits again. I believe they are about $1,050. Two, or 4 of them will certainly rock your shop! Get one or more Behringer EP4000 amps. EQ is required with these beasts due to their irregular frequency response. Many of us use the Behringer DCX2496.You also may want to consider the MiniDSP as it will allow you to set a HPF between 10 and 15 Hz. The DTS-10s can be EQd to be flat down to about 11 or 12 Hz. We have one of these in a small room with Klipschorns and soon a LaScala clone center. Very pleased with the Danley. I don't think you could possibly get more bang for your buck if you really want to dig deep and loud. And clean! There's a huge thread on AVS about these. Have Fun! Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 ...I question whether La Scalas would work well as rears in my application.... Stacked LaScalas up front, then kind some bass solution. I have no problem spending your money. Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 So a grand for the speakers each. What do the EP4000 and the DCX2496 go for? I'm just trying to figure out which nut to auction off.... Seriously, I need to have an idea of cost. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 So a grand for the speakers each. What do the EP4000 and the DCX2496 go for? I'm just trying to figure out which nut to auction off.... Seriously, I need to have an idea of cost. The left one! We live in Canada so not familar with US prices. But a quick Google check pulled up great US prices at Musicians friend - about 50% off MSRP. (Know nothing about the business.) EP4000 $370.00 and DCX2496 $300. You would want one amp per Sub. Ideally it might be nice to have one DCX per sub, but you could probably get away with one DCX for multiple subs. Perhaps someone with multiple subs could chime in here. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 This is sounding like a fun project. I am also going to replace the capacitors on the type AA X-over. It still has the old can type. I see that Danley has its own brand of capacitors. I wonder if they are better than the sonicaps Crites sells. Opinions? I will be ordering the sub kits from Danley tommorrow. I plan on getting discreet equalizers and amps and placing the new subs right next to the La Scalas. Unless I miss my guess this should be the best placement... Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 This is sounding like a fun project. I am also going to replace the capacitors on the type AA X-over. It still has the old can type. I see that Danley has its own brand of capacitors. I wonder if they are better than the sonicaps Crites sells. Opinions? I will be ordering the sub kits from Danley tommorrow. I plan on getting discreet equalizers and amps and placing the new subs right next to the La Scalas. Unless I miss my guess this should be the best placement... Thoughts? You aren't wasting any time. Way to go! And it sounds like more than one sub. Have you yet decided which amps and EQs? You will have a lot of flexibilty with the multiple EQs. Re the location: Try to stay open minded and flexible. Sometimes the best locations are not the ones you planned. You will find the the DTS-10 can have a variety of orientations. The output grill can be located on either side of the cabinet as well as the speaker access hatch. Some find it best standing tall while others find it best on it's side. Some have even had it a foot from a wall and aimed at the wall. Weird! Best to plan on experimenting. Do you know about REW, the free measurement software? You need a calibrated mic with it and then you can take frequency sweeps and all kinds of other acoustic measurements. It's invaluable in setting the EQs and helping to determine best locations. It will also help you to see your progress if you get into doing some acoustical room treatments. Sorry but can't help on the caps. On second thought - I'd stick with what Bob Crites is suggesting. He really knows Klipsch crossovers and usually has very good value. Enjoy, Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 There are a large variety of Yamaha and Beringer amps. I have a local Yamaha dealer in town that price matches, so I am going to tend to go that way. Have any of you had experiences with the Yamaha amps and EQ's? The confusing part is matching the watts with the danley's. The Danleys are 1,000 rms and 2000 programmed. Does that mean I buy a 2000 wat amp or a 1000 watt amp? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 There are a large variety of Yamaha and Beringer amps. I have a local Yamaha dealer in town that price matches, so I am going to tend to go that way. Have any of you had experiences with the Yamaha amps and EQ's? The confusing part is matching the watts with the danley's. The Danleys are 1,000 rms and 2000 programmed. Does that mean I buy a 2000 wat amp or a 1000 watt amp? Thanks Not familar with the Yamaha equipment. I do know that many folks are using these subs with the Behringer DCX2496 EQ and EP4000 amps and getting very satisfactory results. I am. Behringer equipment is looked down upon in the pro audio world. It's built for a price and doesn't seem to always hold up well under heavy duty full time usage. Our usage is very different. Be careful with amp specs. Many maufacturers play a lot of specmanship and Behringer is certainly in this league. The EP4000 doesn't get anywhere near 4000 watts in most applications. You want to also be careful of amplifier impedance. I believe the DTS-10 is rated at 4 ohms, but I believe at certain frequencies it can dip well below that. My suggestion is to stick with an amp that has been succesfully used with this sub, or one that is recommended for this application by someone more knowledgable than I. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 Just got off the phone with Jeff Pulliam at Danley, $2,365 for two sub kits delivered. Not bad. He told me to talk to the engineers at Danley before investing in a seperate amp and EQ per sub. I must say, Jeff was extremely helpful, and represented that company very well. I know they are the only people I am going to consider for my sub(s). If I get these subs for $2365, I could sell them for what I have in them if I need to invest in a couple TH-212's instead. I need to talk to their engineers and see what they have to say before I make my order. This is getting more fun by the second! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Should I be buying the 4000 for each sub, or should I get 2 - 2000's? I would get a 4000 for each sub. Regardless of the number they used these amps don't put out 4000 watts. You are filling a large area in your shop. Did you get my PM? Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 You should buy an amplifier that doesn't say 'Behringer' on it. I would buy a used Crest 8001 or CA12 for what a pair of EP4000 cost. A CA9 may be adequate at 900W x2 (see the one in the photo driving all the low end cabinets): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 I found 2 more La Scalas. I'll pick them up this weekend. These ones have AL-3 crossovers, and the others I have are AA crossovers. Not sure which crossovers should be in front. I am getting lots of different advice on sub amp size for the DST-10's. I plan on talking with the Danley engineers before I make my final order so I can discern details like that, positioning, and quantity or DST-10's. I am hoping 2 will be enough. More than that and I'm a bit afraid I may make the shop too loud and become a nuisance. Oh well! [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 I have 2 pairs of La Scalas now on the original Integra 5.9 receiver. The AL-3 crossovers seem a little smoother than the newly refurbished AA crossovers, so I will be moving the AL-3's to the front. The system sounds great, and once I get the center speaker in place I will update the thread. As I stated before, I will likely be building my subs. Danley DST-10's are looking like a great step after next. Once I get the speakers in place I am gonna look long and hard at the recomended Marantz AV7005 pre-amp paired with the Integra 70.1 amp. I can get them for $3,100, and that is for brand new 'A' stock. I really like Pandora radio, and the AV7005 has that, and a LOT more, built right in. I am choosing the Integra amp over the Marantz one due to cost. It is $1,000 less, and the numbers and ratings are similar. Onkyo knows how to make amps too! Frankly I think the Marantz model is priced too high for what you get. Thanks everybody. I will keep you updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Quick update. I now have 3 pairs of La Scalas. I am using two for the center channel, and the other 4 for the L/R and Rears. Still using the Integra receiver, and the Paradigm Sub. BOY DOES THIS SHOP SOUND DIFFERENT!!!!!! The guy I bought the Integra/Paradigm system from came over and looked at me and asked if it was all running on the Integra receiver. When I said yeh, he looked at me and said "Holy Shit!" Still no sub purchased, but the Danley DST-10 is still in the forefront of my mind. I think I will indeed need two of them. As stated, I'm going to let the Danley engineers help me decide. As for the main tuner/amp, I may just stay pure Marantz. I guess that is the AV 7005, and the MM 7055. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Putting whatever subs you get on the floor, very near a wall, may reinforce the bass response. Klipsch sometimes recommends putting them in a corner, if you have or can build one. Someone on the forum has a display showing that corner placement (with an ordinary speaker) makes for more uniform bass, contrary to "golden ears" Articles of Faith. I was told that some subs can't be turned up enough to match my Klipschorns, so watch out for that factor with the La Scalas. I imagine this also depends on the receiver or preamp or avpro sub adjusting volume device. You may end up entertaining people blocks away! People who aren't into mustangs may come by just for the sound. By the way, somewhere there is a picture of a convertible with a pair of La Scalas bolted to the back, just above the back seat. Ticket bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I have 2 pairs of La Scalas now on the original Integra 5.9 receiver. The AL-3 crossovers seem a little smoother than the newly refurbished AA crossovers, so I will be moving the AL-3's to the front. The system sounds great I think I'll quote myself "Your receiver will work fine with LaScalas, not that you couldn't do better but it's good enough for now. The LaScalas were designed to fill a large space so they would be my first choice. They were not designed to go really low, so a good sub would be important, for a space as big as yours you will want a better sub, maybe even a 15 inch driver and with good power." I'm glad it's working out. Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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