Sub types new questions

[Quiet_Hollow]

This thread has done little to give me confidence in any sub.

That's because you're not paying attention to those of of us who actually use our subs opposed to glossing over charts. Tragusa3, CECAA850, and myself all have had exposure with horn subwoofers. You cannot go wrong with any of the horn subwoofers mentioned so far. BUT, size and money will be a factor. Power handling, not so much.

I am not competent reading acoustic graphs, but it looks like the THT stuff isn't really that great in the sub range.

So don't read them because I will tell you the THT get's stupid loud and low for it's price point. It also sports very low harmonic distortion (not in the charts) and has very linear phase response (also not in the charts). You can pay to have one built for you too.

DTS-10 chart is here:

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/DTS%2010%20spec%20sheet.pdf

at just over 1k for the kit. It's hard to beat. [Y] Just boils down to how much money you think you need to throw at your system and what sound you want. If you want something as hi-fi sounding as your LaScala's, stick with a high-sensitivty sub that has linear phase response. If you want to dig way-way deep, then go DTS-10.

Another option I suggest you try, before spend a dime, is run all your LaScalas full range and just EQ them. Do the math, you have 6 x fifteen inch drivers at your disposal. Boosting the 30-50 Hz region by 5-6dB won't phase them a bit, and will make a world of difference in sound quality.

[russ69]

This thread has done little to give me confidence in any sub.

Deep, deep bass is cool but not necessary. In my systems, if I can get down to 35hz, that's good for almost everything. There still will be some content that is lower in level and frequency but not earth shaking. I had a good Velodyne servo sub with the SMS (sub management system) and I could get flat response down near the teens but most music doesn't need that and I've never been to any concert that had any frequencies down that low. YMMV.

[mustang guy]

Thank you for summing it up. Part of my question was "what would Paul Klipsch do?" I bet he would go with a tapped horn sub. Those would cost roughly twice what the folded horn would but come in a kit, and aren't built from dimensional lumber. That comes down to labor costs.

I am back to my first decision. I am buying the DTS-10's. From what I have read, even if I EQ, I will need 2 of them for the volume of space, and for my needs, which from time to time will be hip-hop. I don't listen to it, but I have 3 teenage sons, and they do from time to time.

I THINK this problem is finally resolved! Thank you everyone...

[tragusa3]

In your volume of space, I don't believe any sub is going to give you the impact that some of us are getting in a residential sized space. In my room, you can feel the subs pulling air out of your lungs and modulating your voice when you speak. But you're in TEN TIMES the volume of space. So just make sure your expectations are appropriate. That being said, I think the Danley will do the best job possible. And, as mentioned earlier, all of your top options would do a great job. I've heard a pair of the 36" tubas along with Khorns, and it was very impressive. Equal to my setup in some ways, better in some ways, not as good in some ways. And we'd all have differing opinion on that. You can't go wrong.

I had to laugh at the comments on chart readers, etc. And the comments about poor phase charts with the Danley. I'd love to run them through a few demos at Reference volume and tell them to "phase this". Charts are a valuable tool, but that's all they are. They don't tell us when we like something.

[Guest " "]

how about the bertha sub. 144 db spl at 30hz.

[Guest " "]

cut away

[Guest " "]

and sure, there are mods and tweaks for it.......

[Guest " "]

here's the plans

[Guest " "]

"what would Paul Klipsch do?"

I think he passed the problem off to Roy, who I believe designed the KP-480 sub woofer for the LaScala. The LaScala sit's directly on top. Crossed over at 120hz. If you get these...I'd replace the caps used in the xovers from the electrolytic's to film/

[Guest " "]

you could also get creative....these sit under the LaScala....isobarc concept.....I get big time low end and more accurate and detailed mids....effortless.

[CECAA850]

Another option I suggest you try, before spend a dime, is run all your LaScalas full range and just EQ them. Do the math, you have 6 x fifteen inch drivers at your disposal. Boosting the 30-50 Hz region by 5-6dB won't phase them a bit, and will make a world of difference in sound quality.

6 Lascalas with that much boost on the bottom end would sound like you were inside a bee hive with all those cabinets buzzing[]. Either brace them or cross them over at 70Hz and go the sub route.

[Guest " "]

Boosting the 30-50 Hz region by 5-6dB

The LaScala's are -10db below 50hz. AND, can only handle 25 watts below 40hz.

ditto on the sub route.

[Quiet_Hollow]

only....

That's still good for over 100dB.... ie. nice loud bass. Just saying, until the subs come in, he could let the La Scalas stretch their legs a bit, sans movies of course. Between six cabs I can assure you, he's not coming even close to what the cabs are capable of down low in terms of displacement. If there's a doubt, bust out the multimeter with a test tone.

[russ69]

Here's an idea......yes this is a sub, a fan driven sub. 110 db output, flat to 1 hz.

[mustang guy]

"what would Paul Klipsch do?"

I think he passed the problem off to Roy, who I believe designed the KP-480 sub woofer for the LaScala. The LaScala sit's directly on top. Crossed over at 120hz. If you get these...I'd replace the caps used in the xovers from the electrolytic's to film/

I looked those up and ran across this post on a website called djforums.com. Here it is:

[start quote from soundinmotiondj]

3 years ago I was using Klipsch KP-480's - 18" direct radiator in a 2ft cube on wheels. The weight was about 95-100 pounds, and the form factor was a pain to deal with.

Now I use a BFM Titan 39 @ 14", they weight less than 50 pounds per box. The cabinet volume is about the same as the 2ft cube...but the form factor is much easier to deal with.

The difference in sound quality is huge. The 18" direct made an impressive "boom" in the room. The folded horn removes the higher order harmonics from the sound...so the bass is much clearer and more articulate. The direct sounded louder in the garage (the worst of all possible listening environments), but with the folded horn you could actually hear the notes of music that were being played. Also, while building the Titans I learned that everything I thought I knew about speaker placement was wrong - and proper placement goes a long way in getting good sound.

I would not go back to a direct radiator design at this point.

[end quote]

Interesting way of putting it. "BOOM IN THE ROOM' vs "HEAR THE NOTES". Also, notice how he says the garage is the worst of all possible environments?